Barcelona Open 2019, Spain, ATP 500

[Federberg]

What a way to close it out. Loss of concentration then a ruthless closing out. I think this match was more about Thiem than Rafa, but what do I know..

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Congrats to Thiem!

After digging himself into 0-40 hole, he nicely pulled back up.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Ralph is definitely getting better. He would have won Barcelona if only he did not have to face Thiem.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Ralph is definitely getting better. He would have won Barcelona if only he did not have to face Thiem.

I don't know if WE like you referring to him as Ralph.. jajaja..just kidding..good match and congrats to Dominic..All Have a great weekend

 

[mrzz]

I've been telling for a while that Thiem is the real deal and I hope people start giving credit to the guy at some point.

 

[kskate2]

But we haven’t seen any significant improvements, such as what Roger has done with his BH.

I’ve always had the feeling Moya is only there because he’s from Majorca.

​

I disagree w/ that. His serve was a bit better in 2018. It's really bad this year, but then again his overall game doesn't look as good this year.

What other changes would you have him make? Other than standing on the baseline instead of NJ when returning, he plays the game a certain way. He's not going to become a completely different player at this stage of his career.

 

[Federberg]

I've been telling for a while that Thiem is the real deal and I hope people start giving credit to the guy at some point.

I’ve been saying the same. There are two ways to get to the top. Make a splash or steady progression. Second route is always less celebrated

 

[Moxie]

Oh, grrrr....but Thiem was fantastic. @mrzz: I'm not sure who doesn't think Thiem is the real deal. But anyway, he was tough as nails today. Rafa too timid.

 

[mrzz]

Oh, grrrr....but Thiem was fantastic. @mrzz: I'm not sure who doesn't think Thiem is the real deal. But anyway, he was tough as nails today. Rafa too timid.

I really won't dig up old messages because of that, but being kind of a Thiem fan -- or at least someone who always thought the guy is really good, I really lost count on how many times I have read people dismissing his level. Since early 2017 it was clear what he could do. In terms of sustained level and I have no doubt he is head and shoulders above all his younger peers. Still some things to polish on hard courts, for sure.

 

[MartyB]

Watched the 2nd set. Thiem was far more aggressive and bolder. To beat Rafa in this manner has to embolden this man. The rankings before the French open starts will be interesting. Madrid will be very interesting with all the big guns in action. Who knew clay would be this interesting again?

 

[El Dude]

First time since 2015 that Rafa didn't win one of Monte Carlo or Barcelona (going back to 2015). Before that there was 2014 as well, and before that you have to go all the way back to 2004.

 

[Fiero425]

I’m looking at Rafa’s head-to-head (on clay) against players with one-handed backhands. Anyone remember this? Crazy score.

I wasn't watching much tennis back then; bored to dealt with the ownership of the ATP by Fedal! It went years of no one else breaking thru in major events; so unprecedented I don't need to look! I do remember the odd wins of Zebellos in '13 Chile event in 3 TB's and score-wise Roger defeating Rafa 2-6, 6-2, 6-0 at the German Open in 2007 still has me puzzled! I don't think Rafa was hurt! At least in Chile, it was his comeback after being off the tour with an injury! :whistle: :cuckoo:

 

[Fiero425]

And can anyone justify Moya’s continued presence?

Having a pretty face in the player's box? It's always worthwhile for the eye-candy; even after all these years! :whistle: B-)

 

[Fiero425]

Interesting... what I saw was a terrible performance from Rafa, not an especially brilliant one from Novak. To my mind that match was a mental one, and the match up against Novak is finally breaking Rafa down. Nothing all time about Novak's performance in my view.

Well keep telling yourself that as Novak collects the trophy, check, and accolades destroying the record books in the process! :whistle:

 

[Fiero425]

First time since 2015 that Rafa didn't win one of Monte Carlo or Barcelona (going back to 2015). Before that there was 2014 as well, and before that you have to go all the way back to 2004.

Is it the beginnin' of the end perchance? I'll wait & see! We've all been guilty of pushing players off the stage only to be proved wrong! :whistle:

 

[herios]

I really won't dig up old messages because of that, but being kind of a Thiem fan -- or at least someone who always thought the guy is really good, I really lost count on how many times I have read people dismissing his level. Since early 2017 it was clear what he could do. In terms of sustained level and I have no doubt he is head and shoulders above all his younger peers. Still some things to polish on hard courts, for sure.

I will raise my hands being one to say he will never win a slam.
We shall see, if he will be able to. Today's win is great, but not unprecedented. He did that in the last few years as well.

 

[mrzz]

I will raise my hands being one to say he will never win a slam.
We shall see, if he will be able to. Today's will is great, but not unprecedented. He did that in the last few years as well.

It is true that he did it before and came away, in a sense, empty handed. But this is the fourth time he has beaten Nadal on clay, (and none in 2015, Nadal's worst year by far). He now has a 4-7 only clay H2H against Nadal, which is pretty respectable. You really, really, don't get that for nothing.

However I agree that it would be not that shocking if he comes out flat tomorrow and loses the final, specially considering he had 4 brutal matches -- but yet this would make your argument stronger. But I always come down to the basics: If you can play that well, someday you will reap the rewards.

Also, once Fedalovic are gone someone will win the majors. Given that are no dominant forces on the horizon I don't think we can rule anybody out -- not even some guy now lurking at around number 40 in the world, let alone a top 5 player.

Anyway I appreciate that you just came forward with an "against the current" opinion (given the recent result). A lot of folks would wait for a negative result to say that.

Still....

 

[herios]

It is true that he did it before and came away, in a sense, empty handed. But this is the fourth time he has beaten Nadal on clay, (and none in 2015, Nadal's worst year by far). He now has a 4-7 only clay H2H against Nadal, which is pretty respectable. You really, really, don't get that for nothing.

However I agree that it would be not that shocking if he comes out flat tomorrow and loses the final, specially considering he had 4 brutal matches -- but yet this would make your argument stronger. But I always come down to the basics: If you can play that well, someday you will reap the rewards.

Also, once Fedalovic are gone someone will win the majors. Given that are no dominant forces on the horizon I don't think we can rule anybody out -- not even some guy now lurking at around number 40 in the world, let alone a top 5 player.

Anyway I appreciate that you just came forward with an "against the current" opinion (given the recent result). A lot of folks would wait for a negative result to say that.

Still....

There is an argument on my side too. His inconsistency.
How quickly fans forget what happened last week in MC. What did Domi do there?

 

[El Dude]

Thiem is good enough (on clay) that no one should be suprised if he wins a Roland Garros or two. But he's not good enough that no one should be surprised if he never wins RG, or any Slam for that matter. And even if Novak and Rafa are showing vulnerability, they're not done yet; and the younger generation continues to improve.

A few years ago, in 2016 when it looked like Roger was finally aging out, Rafa wasn't going to bounce back, and then Novak went walkabout, it seemed we were entering a window of a few years between the reign of the Big Four and the rise of NextGen. Now it seems those two eras will mix, so LostGen--which Thiem is the youngest member of, at least among the better players--won't have the window that it looked like. It now seems likes likely that he's the transitional "crown prince of clay" as much as he might be one of several "dukes of clay" for the next half decade.

 

[mrzz]

What did Domi do there?

Lost to one of my favorite players! That is no shame! Jokes aside, yes, a disappointing loss, but to quite a decent player who went as far as the final.

But, yes, he does lacks consistency. However, this is not something impossible to improve. Also, to win a major all he needs is to play well in one tournament, and he have got to a major final before, also to a major semi and won a Masters, so he can occasionally be consistent within a tournament. This is a hindrance, yes, but I believe it speaks more against his chances of becoming a dominant world number 1 than of becoming a major winner.