Barcelona Open 2017, Barcelona, Spain, ATP 500

[Moxie]

Roger knows what he is doing but I think to play RG without have played any tournament on clay and right after playing on grass it seems that he is taking a little risk, I don't see it could be easy

It's a bit of a risk, indeed. But he'll be weighing his ability to play himself into a Major v. low-level competition, vs. wasting energy and risking his knee at a tune-up. It's a reasonable gamble. Unless he draws a dangerous floater. The argument can be made that it's a better strategy than playing too much on clay and risking his grass success. What he may do is take a wild card for one clay even, just to get his feet wet. Although Madrid suits his game more, Rome makes the most sense.

 

[Carol]

It's a bit of a risk, indeed. But he'll be weighing his ability to play himself into a Major v. low-level competition, vs. wasting energy and risking his knee at a tune-up. It's a reasonable gamble. Unless he draws a dangerous floater. The argument can be made that it's a better strategy than playing too much on clay and risking his grass success. What he may do is take a wild card for one clay even, just to get his feet wet. Although Madrid suits his game more, Rome makes the most sense.

But apparently he will confirm if he will play in RG or not soon but it doesn't look he is going to play in Madrid and Barcelona and if Wimbledon is his goal I think he should practice on grasss since now. But like I said before he will know what he is doing and what is more convenient for his knee

 

[Moxie]

He is possibly playing RG as well as two grass warmups before Wimbledon. Not worried about rust and aside from a miraculous return to form by Djokovic I'm not worried how the other top players are playing at Wimbledon.

I'm assuming "miraculous return to form" is submitted without irony.

 

[DarthFed]

He played terribly, or he had rust and health issues? You've said both, re: Wimbledon last year. Either you're making an excuse, or you aren't. You know why I'm prodding. "Excuse" issues can be sensitive. And about that newly aggressive backhand and return...how come it took him so long to figure that out re: Nadal? He's stunningly renovated on the backhand. Why did he wait so long?

You know I'm not in the business of making excuses. But injuries are sometimes facts, he was not healthy during Wimbledon last year much like Rafa was not healthy in the 2014 AO final, (not that I'm comparing degree of injury) but at the end of the day they played and lost. No excuses. But yes of course Roger played bad to lose to a one trick pony like Raonic at Wimbledon.

Roger has always been stubborn. Perhaps Ivan talked some sense into him. I didn't know he could do what he has done with his backhand but I've been screaming for years for him to be aggressive on the return. Yes he should've been doing that for a long time but better late than never.

 

[DarthFed]

I'm assuming "miraculous return to form" is submitted without irony.

Yes I was not implying drug use at all. I just think it's going to be awhile before we see Nole back at an elite level. I mentioned last week that it is going to be baby steps, you don't go from playing like a barely top 20 player to playing like the old Novak overnight.

 

[Moxie]

Yes I was not implying drug use at all. I just think it's going to be awhile before we see Nole back at an elite level. I mentioned last week that it is going to be baby steps, you don't go from playing like a barely top 20 player to playing like the old Novak overnight.

The (other) irony I meant in terms of "miraculous return to form" was Roger. Stunning how that doesn't even hit your radar.

 

[Carol]

And talking about Barcelona, I've seen the replay and I like how Rafa has played, his serve, his volley and his return. And I'm still crossing fingers to see that he skips Madrid or Roma, please!

 

[DarthFed]

It was a surprise and glorious return to form no doubt. If you're worried about Roger being on PED's what do you think of your boy

 

[Carol]

It was a surprise and glorious return to form no doubt. If you're worried about Roger being on PED's what do you think of your boy

I think we should avoid this conversation because we won't to get anything worthy.

 

[Moxie]

It was a surprise and glorious return to form no doubt. If you're worried about Roger being on PED's what do you think of your boy

It is stunning how you Fed fans are so convinced by his talent that you can't even see the inconsistencies in your own arguments. Oh, yes, push it back on Nadal, the one you've always believed is dirty. I've given you chapter and verse on why Nadal doping is not reasonable. To the point that you even said you'd wished you hadn't started the thread. But where Roger suddenly demonstrates the same patterns that you've attributed to Nadal as suspicious return from injury and to form, you're only just drooling over his ability to adjust his play, etc. No irony about his coming back from 7 months off to achieve 2006-7 level? At 35? At least when Nadal came back in 2013, he was only 26, and it took him 2 months to win a Major. I'm not inclined to believe either is dirty. But if you're going to keep insisting that Nadal is, and apparently you are, then you should look at the miraculous return of Roger. The parallels are nearly exact. Except that Roger is 9 years older. Either you buy that certain things are telling and damning, or you don't. If Roger is able to overcome injury via rest and time off, and come back to top level, then so is Rafa. I only ask you to judge them both equally.

 

[Carol]

I've seen the replay and I like how Rafa has played, his serve, volley and returns. I'm still crossing fingers he skips Madrid or Roma lease:

 

[DarthFed]

Yes I did regret even discussing it on that thread back then because it just runs in circles and the discussion isn't a good look for the board when there may be new users interested in joining.

But...if you're going to bring it up or imply it then I will discuss it.

For the record I don't think Rafa was on PED's in 2013 during his return.

 

[Moxie]

Yes I did regret even discussing it on that thread back then because it just runs in circles and the discussion isn't a good look for the board when there may be new users interested in joining.

But...if you're going to bring it up or imply it then I will discuss it.

For the record I don't think Rafa was on PED's in 2013 during his return.

No, you regretted discussing it on that thread because everyone pointed out to you that it's possible that they all dope, by your logic, and you didn't want to look at that. Also, because I made a perfect argument that if Rafa ever did, it would have been in the last few years, when he really needed it, and, if/then, it hadn't worked.

It's "big" of you to concede that you don't think Rafa was doping in 2013. Convenient to take that period out, since it's the one that parallels Roger's current winning form. And so thoughtful of you to consider the feelings of new posters. But not like you've really let off implying that Nadal dopes, which you implied just a few posts above. I'm sorry to point it out, but all of this is hugely insincere. You want to believe that Nadal has doped, at some point, and you want to believe that Roger never has, because it fits your narrative: that Roger is the GOAT, and the only reason that Nadal has so much got the better of him is from cheating. There are numerous fallacies in that argument which I won't go over again, right now. However, I'm going to hold your feet to the fire on this one: are you really willing to still believe that Nadal has doped, and then look at 35 year old Roger's resurgence and say it's completely clean? There are certain markers that the internet and the forums use to "read in" on doping. Either they apply to all, or they don't apply. I've said before that I prefer to believe that the top guys are clean, or, as @brokenshoelace has suggested, they work within the limits of the system. But do please recognize that you can't paint it up one way for Rafa, and another for Roger.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

And talking about Barcelona, I've seen the replay and I like how Rafa has played, his serve, his volley and his return. And I'm still crossing fingers to see that he skips Madrid or Roma, please!

I cannot see Rafa not playing Madrid especially even Rome,remember there is a week off between Rome and RG.Even in the past I wish he would not play every clay tournament,though this is his 'bread and butter'.

 

[Kieran]

Hopefully he does, but hopefully he gets to face Murray at least here. We're not gonna learn how he'll play under pressure if he keeps beating nobodies, no matter how effective hes hitting the ball...

 

[Fiero425]

Hopefully he does, but hopefully he gets to face Murray at least here. We're not gonna learn how he'll play under pressure if he keeps beating nobodies, no matter how effective hes hitting the ball...

Maybe he just hasn't played anyone over 35 years old yet! :snicker :laydownlaughing :angel: :ras: - - - - Nole Blog - - -

 

[DarthFed]

No, you regretted discussing it on that thread because everyone pointed out to you that it's possible that they all dope, by your logic, and you didn't want to look at that. Also, because I made a perfect argument that if Rafa ever did, it would have been in the last few years, when he really needed it, and, if/then, it hadn't worked.

It's "big" of you to concede that you don't think Rafa was doping in 2013. Convenient to take that period out, since it's the one that parallels Roger's current winning form. And so thoughtful of you to consider the feelings of new posters. But not like you've really let off implying that Nadal dopes, which you implied just a few posts above. I'm sorry to point it out, but all of this is hugely insincere. You want to believe that Nadal has doped, at some point, and you want to believe that Roger never has, because it fits your narrative: that Roger is the GOAT, and the only reason that Nadal has so much got the better of him is from cheating. There are numerous fallacies in that argument which I won't go over again, right now. However, I'm going to hold your feet to the fire on this one: are you really willing to still believe that Nadal has doped, and then look at 35 year old Roger's resurgence and say it's completely clean? There are certain markers that the internet and the forums use to "read in" on doping. Either they apply to all, or they don't apply. I've said before that I prefer to believe that the top guys are clean, or, as @brokenshoelace has suggested, they work within the limits of the system. But do please recognize that you can't paint it up one way for Rafa, and another for Roger.

This is some major revisionist history. I'm not going to find that old thread but me regretting discussing it had absolutely nothing to do with your or anyone else's opinions on it. And I do realize it's possible they all dope or have doped but some are just a little more suspicious. Different sport (baseball) but I'd say it's fair to be more suspicious of Barry Bonds, when his forehead turned into the size of Jupiter, than it was to be suspicious of your average pipsqueak. And I remember going back and forth with you regarding "your perfect argument" (nice modesty there dear) and you didn't want to hear any of it and just brushed everything aside. Anyways to revisit this...what player has more incentive to cheat, one that is up and coming and hoping to make a big impact or the guy who is already an all-time great in his sport?

And please try to find any post of mine where I've said Rafa was juicing during his comeback in 2013. It isn't conceding or backtracking on anything. It never happened. What I have said is that I believe Rafa was silently banned in 2012 through the AO in 2013 when he withdrew a couple weeks in advance due to a tummy ache. I've mentioned many times before that I'm 99.999% sure if a top player on the ATP fails a drug test we won't hear about it from them. Something like that we will only hear if it gets leaked from a different source possibly years down the line. The ATP has a notable recent history of corruption, or at the very least, ridiculous policies. And this all started from you implying Roger was on PED's, I will give you credit for baiting me

I don't think Roger has doped, it's not like he is moving better and showing insane stamina out there, aside from maybe the Berd-Kyrgios back to back matches in Miami but those are still best of 3 sets. His improvements have been mostly tactical, a commitment to first-strike tennis off of his backhand and return, something he's never even really tried before. Also, if he decided to just dope this year when he's already considered to be the GOAT by most people that'd be pretty stupid.

 

[mightyjeditribble]

No more seeded players left in Rafa's half :cover

Oh boy here we go again..:nono

It's the true, no? Not that I think it makes much difference to the end result of Rafa going through to the final!

Murray's QF and SF should be interesting, and will tell us something about whether his slump is continuing or not.

If they meet in the final, I don't see him beating Nadal though. He's beaten Rafa twice on clay, in 2015&2016 Madrid, but Rafa is playing better than he was playing then and Murray is doing worse.

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[isabelle]

Thiem into semi

 

[isabelle]

Thiem into semi