ATP World Tour Finals 2017, London, UK

[Fiero425]

Both Sock and Dimitrov were choking their guts out, but Grigor prevailed! Congrats! :whistle:

 

[DarthFed]

I'm ok with either winning as I like both of them. Definitely think Dimitrov will win though. Baby Fed will show the old man how to play aggressive. Feels crazy typing that but it is how it's going to play out at this tournament.

 

[Moxie]

I'm ok with either winning as I like both of them. Definitely think Dimitrov will win though. Baby Fed will show the old man how to play aggressive. Feels crazy typing that but it is how it's going to play out at this tournament.

Bottom line, nobody cares who wins, I guess. If Dimitrov doesn't win, he'll have topped himself as a folder, though.

 

[DarthFed]

Dimitrov has a chance to feature at slams in the next couple years while Goffin doesn't. I think tomorrow is bigger for Dimitrov for that reason, he'd have good confidence going into AO.

 

[Moxie]

Dimitrov has a chance to feature at slams in the next couple years while Goffin doesn't. I think tomorrow is bigger for Dimitrov for that reason, he'd have good confidence going into AO.

On the other hand, Dimitrov has had a lot of chances and blown them, in terms of mattering, at all. Who know what Goffin might do with a bit of tail wind? (And I'm only mostly kidding.)

 

[DarthFed]

I'm not saying Dimitrov will for sure win a slam but there's a very realistic possibility that the competition is still weak as hell the next couple years. He almost made the AO final this year and also got a little unlucky with Wimbledon draw having to face Fed in the 4th round.

 

[Ricardo]

I'm ok with either winning as I like both of them. Definitely think Dimitrov will win though. Baby Fed will show the old man how to play aggressive. Feels crazy typing that but it is how it's going to play out at this tournament.

He doesn't know how to play aggressive any more than Fed himself, who simply played a stinker as a 36 yo can do sometimes. It's funny a couple of bad matches by grandpa and you feel you have to react so negatively as a way out.

I know you take it for granted that Fed would have Goffin for breakfast, but old people don't always wake up and have good appetite....because they are old.

 

[mrzz]

Bottom line, nobody cares who wins, I guess.

I disagree. People usually don't care when neither their favorite players or their favorite player's rivals are playing, and tend to believe all the world share their lack of interest.

Both guys are not exactly the most popular ones here in this board, but thing is that they are playing pretty good tennis regardless of that. If Goffin wins, he would do that by beating Fedal on the way -- YEC win with Fedal scalps is a pretty big accomplishment. If Dimitrov wins he does it with a 100% success rate. People can spin it whatever way they want, it will be a pretty good achievement anyway.

 

[Ricardo]

Bottom line, nobody cares who wins

This shows you are not a tennis fan. You could never be objective, and have no regard for truth......only care about agenda for someone or something.

 

[Ricardo]

People usually don't care when neither their favorite players or their favorite player's rivals are playing, and tend to believe all the world share their lack of interest.

typical thinking of female fans.

 

[mrzz]

Sadly this will now give Dimitrov a false sense of his game. Gonna be a real blow to his ego next year when he falls back down the rankings to around 12-15 where he belongs. Seriously - WHO has he beaten this year? I looked it up - prior to the WTF his only 3 Top 10 wins came in the same tournament - Brisbane at the start of the year. Yes, that's right...prior to this week Dimitrov had not beaten a ranked inside the Top 10 at the time of their match.

Brisbane - 5 - Nishikori - F
Brisbane - 3 - Raonic - SF
Brisban - 8 - Thiem - QF

Other than these 3 wins the first week of January 2017 - prior to the WTF, he lost to every Top 10 player he played

AO - 9 - Nadal - SF
Madrid - 9 - Thiem - R16
Wimbledon - 2 - Federer - R16
Beijing - 1 - Nadal - Final
Shanghai - 1 Nadal - QF

Other players he beat at big tournaments?

Sofia - 11 - Goffin - F
Cincy - 23 - Kyrgios - F

Other players he lost to in early rounds?

Rotterdam - 11 - Goffin - QF
IW - 18 - Sock - R32
RG - 23 - Carreno Busta - R32
Stockholm - 19 - DelPo - F
Paris - 14 - Isner - R16

So pardon my skepticism about Dimitrov's chances of remaining in the Top 10 - let alone to Top 3-4 - when Murray, Djokovic, Wawrinka, etc., return next year. Espeically since DelPo will most likely make his move to get back into the Top 5. He has 0 points to defend at the AO and Dimitrov has 720 points to defend. As much as I've side-eyed Nadal's return to #1 in this injury-filled year...my eyes are literally going to get stuck in the back of my head if anyone claims that Dimitrov will be in the Top 5 this time next year. He played 22 regular events this year - and didn't make it past the R16 in 12 of them. THAT is how decimated the men's game has been this year. 1 big win and they're in the Top 10 doing their "I"m the kind of the world!" routine. If Dimitrov successfully defends his Cindy title I'll need smelling salts to bring me out of a stupor.

The results you compiled can be read in a different way. I agree with you that they show that Dimitrov is not a world beater, but I guess they also show that he is one step away from being a really high level. That last step is the hardest one, I agree, but you can safely argue he has never been that close. Take a look at the top 10 losses list:


AO - 9 - Nadal - SF

Nadal ended up as the #1 player in the world and was playing pretty well. The match was epic and decided in a close fifth. Nothing to be ashamed of, quite the contrary.

Madrid - 9 - Thiem - R16

Thiem was playing like hell on clay and his matches against Nadal, including a win, show that. Apart from Nadal pretty much everyone else on tour would have lost here too. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Wimbledon - 2 - Federer - R16

No need to comment.

Beijing - 1 - Nadal - Final

Competitive match against a guy fighting to be world #1 who happens to be one of the greatest in history.

Shanghai - 1 Nadal - Q

As above.


So, yes, obviously some room for improvement but it is not like the guy is being spanked and losing matches he was supposed to win all the time. I agree with you that #3 in the world is a bit illusive, as there are a few guys out, but even if all of Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori and Raonic would have finish ahead of him (not a given) he would still be #8, which is a step ahead from previous seasons.

If he gives one more step forward, than he is a genuine slam contender (specially in the post FEDAL era). But, again, I agree that one more step is missing. But that is true for just about everyone else.

 

[herios]

This final is a wake up call for the Fedfans, who really got carried away. We are in 2017, not 2007.
And I am happy to see a final between the lost generation players, who got a lot ridiculed on these boards. Their time to shine has arrived.

 

[the AntiPusher]

This final is a wake up call for the Fedfans, who really got carried away. We are in 2017, not 2007.
And I am happy to see a final between the lost generation players, who got a lot ridiculed on these boards. Their time to shine has arrived.

Why do you say these things? There’s no wake up call. Rafa and Roger dominated 2017 just as they did in the pre Novak years.. Way to much empathizing on this silly tournament, IMO

 

[herios]

Why do you say theses things? There’s no wake up call. Rafa and Roger dominated 2017 just as they did in the pre Novak years.. Way to much empathizing on this silly tournament, IMO

Silly for you. Sour grapes, asyour boy never won it. Be a man and swallow it.

 

[herios]

And by the way Roger fans got carried away. Look at what they were writing about before he lost to David.

 

[DarthFed]

He doesn't know how to play aggressive any more than Fed himself, who simply played a stinker as a 36 yo can do sometimes. It's funny a couple of bad matches by grandpa and you feel you have to react so negatively as a way out.

I know you take it for granted that Fed would have Goffin for breakfast, but old people don't always wake up and have good appetite....because they are old.

I'm just talking about one match, of course Fed normally plays a lot better and more aggressive than Dimitrov but he was just extremely passive yesterday for whatever reason.

And I think everyone took it for granted, it's just a really terrible matchup for Goffin. To his credit he played great the last couple sets. Unbelievably he was serving and playing first-strike tennis better than Roger was.

 

[DarthFed]

This final is a wake up call for the Fedfans, who really got carried away. We are in 2017, not 2007.
And I am happy to see a final between the lost generation players, who got a lot ridiculed on these boards. Their time to shine has arrived.

Give me a break with this garbage. Did you think Goffin had much of a chance yesterday? He was 0-6 and the last few, including 2 weeks ago, were blowouts. Despite the shocking loss I'd say Roger still was pretty dominant this season or are you just going to go off this event and ignore the rest?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

This final is a wake up call for the Fedfans, who really got carried away. We are in 2017, not 2007.
And I am happy to see a final between the lost generation players, who got a lot ridiculed on these boards. Their time to shine has arrived.

You are partially right, but let me explain. The wakeup call only means that Roger will not be able to play 19 tournaments and win most of it any more. Age after all takes a toll. But, when he is healthy going in for a tournament, he would definitely be a favorite (at least in all non-clay events) whether or not he wins.

This year even though Fedal had very good year, both had trouble in getting to the finish line and finishing the year in high point.
This does not mean that their tennis had gone bad. This only means that their bodies have taken so much abuse over the years and s
therefore, it is unrealistic to expect them to be in top shape throughout the year.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Silly for you. Sour grapes, asyour boy never won it. Be a man and swallow it.

You will Never learn...you WILL continue watch the game as a tennis vulture .. Waiting for a Fedal corpse instead of just accepting as long as all conditions remaining True(both are close to 100% healthy and rested), Roger and Rafa will ALWAYS be around on finals weekend for at least another year or so.

 

[Moxie]

I disagree. People usually don't care when neither their favorite players or their favorite player's rivals are playing, and tend to believe all the world share their lack of interest.

Both guys are not exactly the most popular ones here in this board, but thing is that they are playing pretty good tennis regardless of that. If Goffin wins, he would do that by beating Fedal on the way -- YEC win with Fedal scalps is a pretty big accomplishment. If Dimitrov wins he does it with a 100% success rate. People can spin it whatever way they want, it will be a pretty good achievement anyway.

That was really kind of a lame attempt at humor, paraphrasing Darth, who said he likes both. I've been watching almost all the matches, and Rafa has been out since Monday, so that's not me only caring about one player. I think Dimitrov will win, but I'd secretly really like it if Goffin would. I've expressed a fair amount of disdain for Grigor on these boards, because every time I've decided to get behind him, that he's turned his head around, he disappoints me, so I'm a bit gun shy where he's concerned. But as Darth says, "I'll be happy for either."