ATP World Tour Finals 2017, London, UK

[GameSetAndMath]

Looks like Goffin wants the last nail to be driven to his Coffin by none other than TMF.

 

[Fiero425]

So surely you see the error of your ways now? Wanting Federer to retire in 2012!! So why all this talk now, it makes no sense. And please let's all stop this woulda coulda crap about Fedal only performing the way they did in 2017 because of injured players. In the first instance those guys were there for the first 2 slams, so I simply can't understand why you keep trying to imply that there's some sort of asterisk. You might as well say that Rafa was lucky Borg wasn't around, or Novak was lucky Sampras wasn't around...

I feel like that about a lot of sports and athletes! They always seem to stay too long; Connors, McEnroe, Becker, Evert, and so many others embarrassing themselves at the end of their careers! It really can change the destinies of other athletes when old timers who are just hanging on decide to take up a spot just because "they used to be great!" In figure skating it was Michelle Kwan and Todd Eldridge! In baseball and basketball it's quite common; usually just a "money-grab" and wanting that last little bit of adoration and applause! Y'all are right; Borg was the only to leave the game at the top! Maybe that's why I feel that way!:whistle: :cuckoo:

 

[Fiero425]

Looks like Goffin wants the last nail to be driven to his Coffin by none other than TMF.

I like Goffin, but he should not be in the SF of the YEC! This tourney does not look like a legitimate ending to a season with one player deserving while the others should have been fodder for the elite! What the HELL happened? What a mess! Good luck watching; gonna pass here and stick with the figure skating GP going on in Paris this weekend! Maybe the football will get me out of this feeling of ennui!

 

[10isfan]

I assumed Goffin is injured when he lost to Dimitrov 0 and 2, then he beats Thiem. Surprising.

 

[El Dude]

I feel like that about a lot of sports and athletes! They always seem to stay too long; Connors, McEnroe, Becker, Evert, and so many others embarrassing themselves at the end of their careers! It really can change the destinies of other athletes when old timers who are just hanging on decide to take up a spot just because "they used to be great!" In figure skating it was Michelle Kwan and Todd Eldridge! In baseball and basketball it's quite common; usually just a "money-grab" and wanting that last little bit of adoration and applause! Y'all are right; Borg was the only to leave the game at the top! Maybe that's why I feel that way!:whistle: :cuckoo:

In baseball it is usually because stars are given long-term contracts, and end up declining mid-way through. This is very common, but also something the teams generally expect; the idea being, you pay for ten years of greatness, but are happy with five years of greatness, a couple years of goodness, and then accept two or three years of suckiness.

Don't you think also that many players stick around because they love playing? And what is wrong with being at a lower level than one's peak? I don't know why you find that so offensive. Should Lleyton Hewitt have retired ten years ago? Should Mats Wilander have retired in 1989? McEnroe in 1986? etc. And should Becker have said, after 1996, "I'll probably never win another Slam so should just retire now?"

And of course, yes, there is money - but rather than a "money grab," we could also see it as them just practicing their livelihood.

But my main point is: maybe these guys just like playing tennis? I admit that I'm not sure how I'd feel seeing Roger play for a few years ranked outside the top 10 or 20...and it would certainly be painful to see a 90s Wilander-style "comeback"....but I wouldn't fault the guy for trying and still enjoying playing. And moreso, I don't think it tarnishes anything. It may not add to their greatness, but it doesn't subtract, either. Take Wilander, for instance. He pretty much stopped adding to his career resume with that last SF at the 1990 Australian Open.

But I don't think Roger will play years at a journeyman level like Wilander did, and others that you mention to varying degrees. I suspect he will play as long as he thinks he has a reasonable chance of winning a Grand Slam. Maybe there will be a year or so of denial, but not more than that. I think also given that he has the experience of sticking it out and then winning again, he'll have a sense of when he longer has a chance of winning a big one. At his age, a lot can change very quickly. He could be announcing his retirement a year from now, or play into his early 40s.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Tennis is very different from football or basketball or baseball, in terms of how it works. There are no multi-year (or for that matter even one year contracts) contracts with anyone. You are in the circuit only because you deserve to be there. The point system is so cruel that if you are not good enough, there will be many people waiting to kick you out from the entry list of tourneys. As such there is absolutely, no need to unnecessarily cry that players are hanging around too long.

The system takes care of itself. No one can be playing in the circuit without belonging there by the very nature of how tennis points scheme works.

If the younger folks want a greater share of action, they should simply stop whining and drive out the older folks out of the tour.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

With Thiem's loss, Grigor has clinched #4 ranking independent of what happens in the last RR match.

 

[Fiero425]

In baseball it is usually because stars are given long-term contracts, and end up declining mid-way through. This is very common, but also something the teams generally expect; the idea being, you pay for ten years of greatness, but are happy with five years of greatness, a couple years of goodness, and then accept two or three years of suckiness.

Don't you think also that many players stick around because they love playing? And what is wrong with being at a lower level than one's peak? I don't know why you find that so offensive. Should Lleyton Hewitt have retired ten years ago? Should Mats Wilander have retired in 1989? McEnroe in 1986? etc. And should Becker have said, after 1996, "I'll probably never win another Slam so should just retire now?"

And of course, yes, there is money - but rather than a "money grab," we could also see it as them just practicing their livelihood.

But my main point is: maybe these guys just like playing tennis? I admit that I'm not sure how I'd feel seeing Roger play for a few years ranked outside the top 10 or 20...and it would certainly be painful to see a 90s Wilander-style "comeback"....but I wouldn't fault the guy for trying and still enjoying playing. And moreso, I don't think it tarnishes anything. It may not add to their greatness, but it doesn't subtract, either. Take Wilander, for instance. He pretty much stopped adding to his career resume with that last SF at the 1990 Australian Open.

But I don't think Roger will play years at a journeyman level like Wilander did, and others that you mention to varying degrees. I suspect he will play as long as he thinks he has a reasonable chance of winning a Grand Slam. Maybe there will be a year or so of denial, but not more than that. I think also given that he has the experience of sticking it out and then winning again, he'll have a sense of when he longer has a chance of winning a big one. At his age, a lot can change very quickly. He could be announcing his retirement a year from now, or play into his early 40s.

I took my own advice believe it or not! Due to sleep disorder where I was getting weaker and weaker, I couldn't play at a level I was happy or accepting of; totally giving it up in '01 @ 44 after playing MxD with the family! I could barely get my arms above my head by the 2nd and 3rd sets and just cut myself off; gave a couple lessons, but never played competitively again! A bunch of those pros mentioned like Wilander should have done the same; really unaware he was out on tour after '89 season! :whistle:

 

[Federberg]

my goodness, haven't been watching, but Grigor really looks like he's balling!

 

[mrzz]

my goodness, haven't been watching, but Grigor really looks like he's balling!

He is playing serious tênis. Only TMF can deal with this version of Dimitrov

 

[Federberg]

He is playing serious tênis. Only TMF can deal with this version of Dimitrov

It would be a worthy final

 

[DarthFed]

Yeah I haven't seen any of his matches but he is destroying PCB after destroying Goffin. I think Sock will give him more trouble but I expect Grigor to be in the final.

 

[DarthFed]

Double breadsticks, and he's dropped a total of 4 games the last two matches. Wow

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Brian Brothers did not make the cut. They started declining at the same time as Rafa. It looks like they won't be able to mount a comeback anymore.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I like Goffin, but he should not be in the SF of the YEC!

Rafa was supposed to reach SF. Given that Goffin is the player who showed Rafa the door (even though he
has to fidget holding the door), it is only fitting that Goffin reached SF. None of the other players in Sampras
Group even needed to face Rafa (and so we must discount their cheap wins against PCB a player who
reached QF at USO after facing four qualifiers in a row).

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Generally speaking we were adoring Next Gen and criticizing Lost Gen. But, Lost Gen (Grigor and Goffin) won the fight this time
against Next Gen (Sasha and Thiem).

 

[El Dude]

I'm very encouraged by what I see in Grigor. I also read an article in which he was downplaying the "Baby Federer" moniker and he just sounded more mature and focused than a few years ago. Maybe we're entering a few year stretch in which we get to see him actualize his potentials.

 

[Moxie]

I'm very encouraged by what I see in Grigor. I also read an article in which he was downplaying the "Baby Federer" moniker and he just sounded more mature and focused than a few years ago. Maybe we're entering a few year stretch in which we get to see him actualize his potentials.

I didn't see the match today, but the scoreline was impressive. Did you see it?

 

[El Dude]

Nope. Just those last two matches - that's some serious dominance.

 

[herios]

Generally speaking we were adoring Next Gen and criticizing Lost Gen. But, Lost Gen (Grigor and Goffin) won the fight this time
against Next Gen (Sasha and Thiem).

Actually make it 3. All SF aside Roger:
Sock, Dimitrov and Goffin.
And do not include me among those who adore next generation players.
The only one next generation player who has proven me something to believe that will surpass the lost generation standard is Zverev.