ATP World Tour Finals 2017, London, UK

[Moxie]

Agreed. See 2009 French Open champion.

That, actually, is one of Roger's finest moments, IMO. (Amongst lots of them, OK.) Not just talent, but opportunity seized. He tightened, and got close to missing it, but he didn't. I also think Rafa seeing his window in the 2010 USO was similar. They are singular players not just because they're better than everyone else, but because they rarely miss a gift when it's on offer. (Unless it's against each other.) We complain so much about other players not stepping up to opportunity. But if it were easy, they would do it. Only the greats do it consistently.

 

[Moxie]

I appreciate The Next Gen and would just like them to back up "their promise!" So far the so called best talent has barely made a major final and a lot of the time not even own a Masters' event! Who's fault is that; mines because I don't give them enough love? I still relish and cringe with this era of play; seeing the ebbs and flows going on 47 yrs! I still live those past eras w/ a tape collection 2nd to none & access to everything else online! I still prefer to watch tennis when played more like a chess match, not an arena where attrition has taken the place of skill! :whistle:

You're asking for players to step up, but you're not appreciating when the likes of Sock and Dimitrov do? Are you really just treating it like they got lucky in the year of great attrition? Personally, I think it's unfair to expect too much of Sasha Zvererv, at this point. He's done a lot, but we are a long time beyond a great teenager or 20-year-old. I don't think it's wrong to be a bit more patient. However, I do think that tennis is still a chess match and a game of angles and wills. If you want to sit in your Barcalounger and miss the old days, go for it. But I do think that tennis has a great present, and good future.

 

[shawnbm]

^Moxie—yes!!!

 

[Fiero425]

You're asking for players to step up, but you're not appreciating when the likes of Sock and Dimitrov do? Are you really just treating it like they got lucky in the year of great attrition? Personally, I think it's unfair to expect too much of Sasha Zvererv, at this point. He's done a lot, but we are a long time beyond a great teenager or 20-year-old. I don't think it's wrong to be a bit more patient. However, I do think that tennis is still a chess match and a game of angles and wills. If you want to sit in your Barcalounger and miss the old days, go for it. But I do think that tennis has a great present, and good future.

I think you must have me mixed up with someone else in mind! I have little to no idea what you're talking about! I don't mind either Grigor or Jack making it, but it is because of so many other players "missing in action;" that's a fact! Bringing in players from outside the top 10 proves my point! :sleep:

 

[Moxie]

I think you must have me mixed up with someone else in mind! I have little to no idea what you're talking about! I don't mind either Grigor or Jack making it, but it is because of so many other players "missing in action;" that's a fact! Bringing in players from outside the top 10 proves my point! :sleep:

But weren't Jack and Grigor missing in action, too? Until they weren't? Either you want other players to feature, or you don't. You're just moving the goalposts now.

 

[Fiero425]

But weren't Jack and Grigor missing in action, too? Until they weren't? Either you want other players to feature, or you don't. You're just moving the goalposts now.

I just find it unprecedented to see so many top players out at the same time; many from Milos, Kei, Nole, Andy, among others! This would be comparable to Borg, Vilas, Nastase, Tanner, & Raul Ramirez on the shelf all at once for months back in the 70's! Needless to say, nothing like that has ever happened or it would have been the death nil of tennis with Connors the lone wolf, all alone at the top IMO! Luckily all these players kept his record in check! :whistle:

 

[DarthFed]

Just had a funny thought - if Thiem beats Goffin tomorrow...then 3 of the 4 semi-finalists will have single-handed backhands. When was the last time the 3 of 4 semi-finalists, in any event, were single handers? I'm sure there's some stats nut out there who knows the answer to that...

Happened at Oz this year. I'm guessing it happens more than we would think.

 

[El Dude]

Zverev just turned 20 in April. Consider the age at which the Big Four won their first WTF:

Roger: 22
Novak: 21
Rafa: NA
Andy: 29

It is a tough, tough tournament - no easy wins.

Anyhow, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Grigor surprises some people next year and holds consistent to what he's done this year. I don't know if he'll win a Slam, but I think he'll be very competitive and finish in the top 10 again.

 

[Fiero425]

Zverev just turned 20 in April. Consider the age at which the Big Four won their first WTF:

Roger: 22
Novak: 21
Rafa: NA
Andy: 29

It is a tough, tough tournament - no easy wins.

Anyhow, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Grigor surprises some people next year and holds consistent to what he's done this year. I don't know if he'll win a Slam, but I think he'll be very competitive and finish in the top 10 again.

Nole was rather young; snuck in there as the 3rd ranked player back in '08 to win the AO, a couple Masters and the YEC! Very impressive; was rather consistent and stayed up there at the top until finally succumbing to injury taking significant time off after 9 years! Unlike other players of the Next Gen, Nole really surpassed all expectations and was close to overtaking Fedal! Lucky for them he's hurt and they're able to take advantage of his being missing in action! :whistle:

 

[Moxie]

Happened at Oz this year. I'm guessing it happens more than we would think.

I knew there was a recent one...thanks!

 

[herios]

Zverev just turned 20 in April. Consider the age at which the Big Four won their first WTF:

Roger: 22
Novak: 21
Rafa: NA
Andy: 29

It is a tough, tough tournament - no easy wins.

Anyhow, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Grigor surprises some people next year and holds consistent to what he's done this year. I don't know if he'll win a Slam, but I think he'll be very competitive and finish in the top 10 again.

He was not the favorite in the first place.
It was just the general consensus he will make the SF, especially considering the field.

 

[Federberg]

Nole was rather young; snuck in there as the 3rd ranked player back in '08 to win the AO, a couple Masters and the YEC! Very impressive; was rather consistent and stayed up there at the top until finally succumbing to injury taking significant time off after 9 years! Unlike other players of the Next Gen, Nole really surpassed all expectations and was close to overtaking Fedal! Lucky for them he's hurt and they're able to take advantage of his being missing in action! :whistle:

Or perhaps he’s been lucky they’ve been impaired these last few years. Cuts both ways matey

 

[Fiero425]

Or perhaps he’s been lucky they’ve been impaired these last few years. Cuts both ways matey

That wasn't impairment; more a reason to retire and let the Next Gen take over! I said back in 2012 Federer probably should have let it go after winning that Wimbledon and coming up short in his Olympic Gold attempt! Rafa was destined to be a broken down player so again, when he started losing it in 2014 and taking that 9th FO, he should have left the game as well! So much would have changed if they had never come back; maybe the Next Gen would be succeeding more without the Fedal Goat-dom hanging over their heads! :whistle:

 

[Ricardo]

You're asking for players to step up, but you're not appreciating when the likes of Sock and Dimitrov do? Are you really just treating it like they got lucky in the year of great attrition? Personally, I think it's unfair to expect too much of Sasha Zvererv, at this point. He's done a lot, but we are a long time beyond a great teenager or 20-year-old. I don't think it's wrong to be a bit more patient. However, I do think that tennis is still a chess match and a game of angles and wills. If you want to sit in your Barcalounger and miss the old days, go for it. But I do think that tennis has a great present, and good future.

hmmm the game has moved on, but some people don't and still bath themselves in the memories of past. he thinks the 90s was the best ever, well for those who have followed sport for much longer, they can easily tell that 80s were better tennis. overall i think Laver put it the best, it's a different game in different eras as technological advancement (plus medical, playing condition, training method etc) has made it so. what's happening now is no better or worse than the 90s, clearly if you want to see the fast court players (like Sampras, Goran, Becker etc) to come back, you make the surfaces slow and you can bet the big servers would flourish again.

This is the era of baseline grinders (well more grinders than shot-makers anyway), like it or not.

 

[Ricardo]

That wasn't impairment; more a reason to retire and let the Next Gen take over! I said back in 2012 Federer probably should have let it go after winning that Wimbledon and coming up short in his Olympic Gold attempt! Rafa was destined to be a broken down player so again, when he started losing it in 2014 and taking that 9th FO, he should have left the game as well! So much would have changed if they had never come back; maybe the Next Gen would be succeeding more without the Fedal Goat-dom hanging over their heads! :whistle:

if Novak himself would've retired early with Rafa, the young ones would have more success too you see?

 

[El Dude]

That wasn't impairment; more a reason to retire and let the Next Gen take over! I said back in 2012 Federer probably should have let it go after winning that Wimbledon and coming up short in his Olympic Gold attempt! Rafa was destined to be a broken down player so again, when he started losing it in 2014 and taking that 9th FO, he should have left the game as well! So much would have changed if they had never come back; maybe the Next Gen would be succeeding more without the Fedal Goat-dom hanging over their heads! :whistle:

Fiero, you think Roger should have retired in 2012 when he just won a Slam and was #1 for a bit? How many great players retire when they're so close to their peak? I"ll tell you: only one, Bjorn Borg. Everyone else went through a decline of several years. I know Sampras retired after winning the USO, but he had been in decline for a few years.

If Roger had retired after 2012 or, more realistically, after 2013 or even after 2016, we tennis fans (not just Roger fans) would have missed one of the most impressive comeback seasons not only in tennis history, but sports history. I mean, consider the magnitude of what Roger has done: not only did he win a Slam after going Slamless for almost five years, but at age 35. And then he won a second! Not to mention the three Masters and probably the World Tour Finals, and 7 or 8 titles overall. Roger's 2017 isn't one of the very greatest tennis seasons in history, but it may be the most impressive.

(By the way, Rafa's season was also very impressive, but I don't think quite on the same level considering their age).

 

[mrzz]

(By the way, Rafa's season was also very impressive, but I don't think quite on the same level considering their age).

And specially considering this year's H2H!!!! (hahahaha, you had it coming, brrffftttttt where the hell is that ridiculous dancing corn cob when you need it?)

 

[Federberg]

That wasn't impairment; more a reason to retire and let the Next Gen take over! I said back in 2012 Federer probably should have let it go after winning that Wimbledon and coming up short in his Olympic Gold attempt! Rafa was destined to be a broken down player so again, when he started losing it in 2014 and taking that 9th FO, he should have left the game as well! So much would have changed if they had never come back; maybe the Next Gen would be succeeding more without the Fedal Goat-dom hanging over their heads! :whistle:

So surely you see the error of your ways now? Wanting Federer to retire in 2012!! So why all this talk now, it makes no sense. And please let's all stop this woulda coulda crap about Fedal only performing the way they did in 2017 because of injured players. In the first instance those guys were there for the first 2 slams, so I simply can't understand why you keep trying to imply that there's some sort of asterisk. You might as well say that Rafa was lucky Borg wasn't around, or Novak was lucky Sampras wasn't around...

 

[DarthFed]

Thiem is getting abused by an injured McFly. That dude needs to go back to the drawing board this offseason. Time to think about better scheduling as he's been underwhelming for awhile. I don't think he should be relegated to being a clay court specialist but he's shown nothing off of it and even on clay this year he didn't exactly set the place on fire.

 

[DarthFed]

That wasn't impairment; more a reason to retire and let the Next Gen take over! I said back in 2012 Federer probably should have let it go after winning that Wimbledon and coming up short in his Olympic Gold attempt! Rafa was destined to be a broken down player so again, when he started losing it in 2014 and taking that 9th FO, he should have left the game as well! So much would have changed if they had never come back; maybe the Next Gen would be succeeding more without the Fedal Goat-dom hanging over their heads! :whistle:

Come on man, you do well being goofy but don't graduate to being a total clown