ATP World Tour Finals 2017, London, UK

[Moxie]

Ah, Darth, if you could only see it beyond what you see as Rafa whining. Personally, I think it could be interesting and manageable. As well as good for markets beyond London. But you'll only ever see it one way. Is it your love for the indoor HCs, or your protection of Fed?

 

[Moxie]

The same quality of play suffering from clay to grass just in a few days

That players are forced to change from clay to grass in a short span is a classic impediment that they're expected to supersede.

I'd say the Year end Championships are a little more important than Stuttgart and whatever grass tourneys take place right after RG.

Right. Therefore, the change of surface should be even more deftly handled and expected at the end of the year.

 

[DarthFed]

Here's a question for you. If your boy had managed to win even one do you think he'd still be whining annually about it not rotating? Personally I doubt it. It's the only thing of note he hasn't won and Fed and Djoker have eaten him alive in the big matches there over the years.

I've given pretty reasonable arguments as to why it's a bad idea to randomly switch surfaces after a few weeks of indoor hardcourts. Changing venues is a different story, I wouldn't object to that though I do think keeping it in Europe makes sense.

 

[DarthFed]

That players are forced to change from clay to grass in a short span is a classic impediment that they're expected to supersede.


Right. Therefore, the change of surface should be even more deftly handled and expected at the end of the year.

Why is it expected to play a bunch of warmups on indoor hards only to play the main event on grass or clay?

 

[Moxie]

Why is it expected to play a bunch of warmups on indoor hards only to play the main event on grass or clay?

That presumes that the "main event" would be on indoor HCs. I don't think you should treat every MS 1000 as a tune-up to a Major. Otherwise, you diminish them. For example, there's not MS 1000 leading to the AO, or any specific tune-up, at all. And IW and MIA don't lead into a HC Major. The calendar isn't strictly structured that way.

 

[Moxie]

Here's a question for you. If your boy had managed to win even one do you think he'd still be whining annually about it not rotating? Personally I doubt it. It's the only thing of note he hasn't won and Fed and Djoker have eaten him alive in the big matches there over the years.

I've given pretty reasonable arguments as to why it's a bad idea to randomly switch surfaces after a few weeks of indoor hardcourts. Changing venues is a different story, I wouldn't object to that though I do think keeping it in Europe makes sense.

You've offered me a no-win answer. I can tell you that I would absolutely think that a rotating YEC is a good idea, and I've made my arguments. However, you will endlessly believe that is sour-grapes. Believe what you like, though I think my arguments are interesting.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I am in favor of the WTF venue rotating after every three years. But, I am not in favor of it rotating to different surfaces. It is the culmination of
indoor hard court season and so it is a no brainer that it must be in indoor HC. Further, there is no other important event that is played indoors and so there must be a big event in indoors.

 

[Shivashish Sarkar]

Alright, alright.

Now Roger needs to get his A game or at least A- together and win maximum points from WTF. It will not only make his 2017 season look out of the world at this stage but also put him back in contention for world no. 1. But, I'm happy he's not thinking about it now. I'd love to see Roger become world no. 1 again even if only for a week or two.

 

[Shivashish Sarkar]

I don't know how objectively I am saying this, but shouldn't the WTF be played on indoors? Idk, the idea of rotating surfaces seems okay too but the problem would be that WTF would stand out as an odd clay tourney in a hard court season which would really affect the rhythm of players and that's not how we have been doing the tennis calendar.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Alright, alright.

Now Roger needs to get his A game or at least A- together and win maximum points from WTF. It will not only make his 2017 season look out of the world at this stage but also put him back in contention for world no. 1. But, I'm happy he's not thinking about it now. I'd love to see Roger become world no. 1 again even if only for a week or two.

It is going to be difficult at the beginning of next year though. As Roger won AO, IW and M last year, he does not have much chances to add points before clay season (the only chance is in Dubai where he lost early, but he is not going to win all three of AO, IW and M next year and so
definitely will lose a sizable chunk of his holdings).

Assuming Roger sits out during clay season (which I hope he does not), he won't be able to add points during that time either.
However, if Novak and Stan come back strong, they may take some clay titles and thus Rafa may lose points and that may make
Roger #1 sometime during or at the end of clay season.

 

[El Dude]

I'll echo what Game said: it will be very hard to catch Rafa and take #1, although he'll have a few windows of opportunity.

His first will be after the Australian Open. If he wins it again and Rafa goes out in the SF or earlier, and Roger equals or bests his warm-up results, then he can grab #1 for a bit.

His second will be during clay season, but will be harder as he'll have to defend most of his points early on, or at least lose less than Rafa, and then he'll have to play Roland Garros and maybe a clay master and do well, plus Rafa will have to do much worse.

His third would be after the US Open.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Nadal said at his press conference today that he's playing...

So it appears my sources were off by one match

 

[DarthFed]

I'll echo what Game said: it will be very hard to catch Rafa and take #1, although he'll have a few windows of opportunity.

His first will be after the Australian Open. If he wins it again and Rafa goes out in the SF or earlier, and Roger equals or bests his warm-up results, then he can grab #1 for a bit.

His second will be during clay season, but will be harder as he'll have to defend most of his points early on, or at least lose less than Rafa, and then he'll have to play Roland Garros and maybe a clay master and do well, plus Rafa will have to do much worse.

His third would be after the US Open.

Did Nadal get any points for playing yesterday? If not and Roger wins YEC and gets the full 1500 then it is about a 150 point gap and then Roger could choose to play Doha to go after #1 instead of playing the Hopman Cup

 

[mrzz]

About the rotating surfaces idea: I would support clay: Indoor BLUE clay. Oh, and a big FUCK YOU for the ones who don't like the Surface. Yeah, I AM feeling classy todas.


P.S. ATP Must think globally and change the Surface of the YEC does hamper the leading events.

 

[isabelle]

Rafa says right after the match: "I'm off, my season is finished". Thank God he has taken that decision, I can't believe why he wanted to play in those bad conditions, playing so bad and his knee could get worse, he is soooo stubborn

it"ld have been smarter to call a season after USO... can't understand him, hard courts are bad for his knee as clay is bad for Mr Vavrinec's body

 

[shawnbm]

I always findi is these back and forth to be amusing . In my teens my favorite was Jimmy Connors— basically because Jimmy was able to beat the great Swedish player of that time in the big mattress. I loved his tenacity. Now, I prefer to watch Borgen play his matches from the past as I have reconciled myself to his greatness notwithstanding that he often was a challenge to my favorite player. It’s the same with Roffe on the doll. The man is incredible. I prefer to watch Roger Federer hit a tennis ball and glide around the corner and hit amazing shots. Yet, the tenacity of Roffe L is undeniable and I have my own him greatly. Everybody needs to relax. The matter how you cut it, Rafael is a tremendous player and very exciting To watch. I love to watch him play a tennis match precisely because I used to love watching Jimmy Connors. He gives you 150% every day. He hits amazing shots. He is a baseline her, that is true, but baseline tennis with that shot making, particularly with passing shots, is exciting. Folks need to give it a rest. The day Rafael Nadal is no longer here, will be a sad day. And likewise it will be very sad when Roger Federer is not playing. Folks need to give it

 

[Moxie]

Come on, Jack! TB to decide it.

EDIT: Nice job...from down 2-4 in the TB then wins the next 5 points. Cilic seems to be suffering from some kind of late-set/late-match shell shock. His nerves are shot.

 

[Carol]

IMO Bercy would

About the rotating surfaces idea: I would support clay: Indoor BLUE clay. Oh, and a big FUCK YOU for the ones who don't like the Surface. Yeah, I AM feeling classy todas.


P.S. ATP Must think globally and change the Surface of the YEC does hamper the leading events.

F#*K YOU back! hope one day they paint the grass red :whistle:

 

[El Dude]

Is it just me, or is Cilic hard to cheer for? I'm also glad to see him (almost certainly) falling out of his group, because he's one of the only real threats to Roger.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So much for my prediction of Cilic finishing second in the group. With two losses in the book and the unplayed match being against Fed, Cilic has almost no chance now. I should junk my current crystal ball, buy a new one on black Friday.