ABN AMRO, Rotterdam, Netherlands, APT 500

[DarthFed]

You do know the FO is coming up? King of clay Nadal will Destroy Federer, unless Federer to Scared to play on clay like last year. I think on clay Federer is Nadal door mat.

Nadal has dodged Roger on grass a lot more than Roger has dodged Nadal on clay. I'd love if they played on grass twelve more times, Roger would be leading the H2H after that.

 

[Moxie]

I also think they do get a long, but that does not mean that they are not competitive. They will continue trying to outdo each other.

I totally agree with this. I got sneered at for suggesting that Roger was extra-motivated to take the #1 back because it was over Nadal. Imo, they are both conscious of the fact that their legacies are entwined, which I think Federer fans kind of hate and would prefer to disentangle. But they have long been aware of the marketability of their great rivalry, and they seem to appreciate that they are the only two people who live with it. There was a really nice documentary on Evert/Navratilova in the very good ESPN series 30 for 30. Chris and Martina spoke very poignantly to the fact that they are bound by being, each to the other, the only two people who lived that famous rivalry. Roger and Rafa seem to "get" each other in the same way. They may not be exactly friends, but they are bound by tennis history, and they seem to recognize that. Borg and McEnroe, the same.

 

[Moxie]

Nadal has dodged Roger on grass a lot more than Roger has dodged Nadal on clay. I'd love if they played on grass twelve more times, Roger would be leading the H2H after that.

That's a false-equivalency, because there isn't enough grass to play on. What I'm sorry for is the times when Roger missed his date with Rafa at the USO. (And let's face it, when each were close, it was more Roger missing it than Rafa.) That would have done better for the off-clay H2H, in Nadal's favor.

 

[El Dude]

Seems like every time we lose a rabid Rafaelite, we gain another one.

This one is so over the top that I'm wondering if s/he is a troll, maybe a Fedfan just trying to make y'all look bad.

 

[DarthFed]

That's a false-equivalency, because there isn't enough grass to play on. What I'm sorry for is the times when Roger missed his date with Rafa at the USO. (And let's face it, when each were close, it was more Roger missing it than Rafa.) That would have done better for the off-clay H2H, in Nadal's favor.

Roger won 5 in a row and made the finals in 2009. By the time Rafa had done anything at USO (2010) Roger was past his prime (same age and dropoff in play that Rafa had in 2015). And if I were you I'd be grateful last year's USO turned out as is. Roger was set to be the overwhelming favorite before Montreal.

Maybe they will finally meet there this year

 

[Moxie]

This one is so over the top that I'm wondering if s/he is a troll, maybe a Fedfan just trying to make y'all look bad.

Double-agent? :lulz2: I think others have been this bad, but they do seem to get more stupid and less creative. Clay Death was the gold standard of rabid Rafa fans, even though he turned on Nadal. Please just remember not to tar the rest us with the same brush, OK?

 

[Moxie]

Roger won 5 in a row and made the finals in 2009. By the time Rafa had done anything at USO (2010) Roger was past his prime (same age and dropoff in play that Rafa had in 2015). And if I were you I'd be grateful last year's USO turned out as is. Roger was set to be the overwhelming favorite before Montreal.

Maybe they will finally meet there this year

I'm kind of over anyone talking about when Roger was past his prime. He seems to have entered a whole new "prime." It's fair to say that Rafa had made adjustments to his game to do better at HC slams, by 2009/2010. He was only 22/24. I have never said anything other than that last year's USO was a gift, and Nadal was there to take it. You're just mad because Roger wasn't. But as to other USOpens, Nadal did come into his own there before Roger was a geriatric, by any stretch. Roger missed his dates in 2010 and '11, when he was only 29/30. Not old. The USO seems to be where especially their age-difference kept them from meeting, though.

 

[DarthFed]

I'm kind of over anyone talking about when Roger was past his prime. He seems to have entered a whole new "prime." It's fair to say that Rafa had made adjustments to his game to do better at HC slams, by 2009/2010. He was only 22/24. I have never said anything other than that last year's USO was a gift, and Nadal was there to take it. You're just mad because Roger wasn't. But as to other USOpens, Nadal did come into his own there before Roger was a geriatric, by any stretch. Roger missed his dates in 2010 and '11, when he was only 29/30. Not old. The USO seems to be where especially their age-difference kept them from meeting, though.

He's still well past his prime and has been for awhile. He just plays differently and has now stepped up to near perfect aggression. He was getting more aggressive in the 2011-2016 phase but still had a very passive return and a backhand that isn't anywhere near what it's been since 2017. And of course the field is atrocious. It was already weak in 2014-2016 but right now it is ridiculously bad.

 

[Moxie]

He's still well past his prime and has been for awhile. He just plays differently and has now stepped up to near perfect aggression. He was getting more aggressive in the 2011-2016 phase but still had a very passive return and a backhand that isn't anywhere near what it's been since 2017. And of course the field is atrocious. It was already weak in 2014-2016 but right now it is ridiculously bad.

Still doesn't account for his not making the dates with Nadal at the USO.

 

[I.Haychew]

Still doesn't account for his not making the dates with Nadal at the USO.

And vice-versa

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Seems like every time we lose a rabid Rafaelite, we gain another one.

May be it is the same person appearing in different guises.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I also think they do get along, but that does not mean that they are not competitive. They will continue trying to outdo each other.

They definitely do get along. Roger once gave ride to Rafa from Canada to Cincy in his private jet. Roger went to Spain to help with Rafa's Academy. Roger also went to Spain long ago to play in a half clay, half grass court for an exhibition match. Finally, they were team mates in the Laver cup and we saw that they seem to be genuinely happy to be on the same team.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

This one is so over the top that I'm wondering if s/he is a troll, maybe a Fedfan just trying to make y'all look bad.

There really was someone who was over the top of all others. I think the name was "autopilot" or something like that. That poster was worshipping Rafa even beyond the game of tennis. He used to sing praises of Rafa's charity work and raise Rafa to a saint level.

 

[El Dude]

There really was someone who was over the top of all others. I think the name was "autopilot" or something like that. That poster was worshipping Rafa even beyond the game of tennis. He used to sing praises of Rafa's charity work and raise Rafa to a saint level.

Carol goes to that level of idolization, but it is kind of endearing.

Kind of.

 

[Moxie]

And vice-versa

Not vice-versa. That's part of my point. When Rafa started making the SFs at USO (in 2008) he was only 22. It's not fair to have expected him to get closer before. Roger had all those years at the USO without him being fully ready, or Djokovic, for that matter. When Rafa started to come into his own at the USO, Roger wasn't making the date. There is no vice-versa. You have to remember that when Roger won his USOpen's, Rafa was 18-22. He can't be faulted for not winning the USO at that point, or not making the match with Roger.

 

[I.Haychew]

Not vice-versa. That's part of my point. When Rafa started making the SFs at USO (in 2008) he was only 22. It's not fair to have expected him to get closer before. Roger had all those years at the USO without him being fully ready, or Djokovic, for that matter. When Rafa started to come into his own at the USO, Roger wasn't making the date. There is no vice-versa. You have to remember that when Roger won his USOpen's, Rafa was 18-22. He can't be faulted for not winning the USO at that point, or not making the match with Roger.

Vice-versa means that Nadal wasn't very good on hardcourts when Federer was, and Federer wasn't very good on hardcourts when Nadal was.

 

[Moxie]

Vice-versa means that Nadal wasn't very good on hardcourts when Federer was, and Federer wasn't very good on hardcourts when Nadal was.

I think I stated my case. Nadal was a mere child when Federer was scooping up the USO, but you can't say the same about Fed when Nadal came into his own at the USO. Don't tell me Roger stopped being good on HCs in 2010. Realistically, the reason they've never coincided there has also been some bad luck/bad timing.

 

[DarthFed]

I think I stated my case. Nadal was a mere child when Federer was scooping up the USO, but you can't say the same about Fed when Nadal came into his own at the USO. Don't tell me Roger stopped being good on HCs in 2010. Realistically, the reason they've never coincided there has also been some bad luck/bad timing.

And Roger has been a geriatric for most of Rafa's good years at the USO. Even recent history shows elite players in their 30's are well past their primes. If we can't expect an early 20's Nadal to make the finals we shouldn't be expecting early to mid 30's Fed to make it as well.

 

[Andy22]

Nadal has dodged Roger on grass a lot more than Roger has dodged Nadal on clay. I'd love if they played on grass twelve more times, Roger would be leading the H2H after that.

N

Nadal has dodged Roger on grass a lot more than Roger has dodged Nadal on clay. I'd love if they played on grass twelve more times, Roger would be leading the H2H after that.

OK this is just that I think so do not make fun of me, Nadal will make the Wimbledon final this year.

 

[Moxie]

And Roger has been a geriatric for most of Rafa's good years at the USO. Even recent history shows elite players in their 30's are well past their primes. If we can't expect an early 20's Nadal to make the finals we shouldn't be expecting early to mid 30's Fed to make it as well.

Again, I don't know how long you get to claim "geriatric" for Roger, especially since he's won 3 of the last 5 Majors at 35-36. I know you bemoan that he's underachieved at the USO, but he might have made one of those finals at 30-32. (Doesn't matter, as he wouldn't have won them, anyway.) But to make the point again: Roger didn't stop being good on HCs in 2010. By a long shot.