2022 Australian Open Men’s Final: Rafael Nadal vs. Daniil Medvedev

[Moxie]

Maybe it’s me, but I don’t think Ivan Lendl gave two F**’s if the crowd loved him. Ditto Jimmy Connors or Johnny Mac.

Listen , Novak’s chip on his shoulder and insecurities make him more appealing to me. It’s never “enough” for him and that breakdown when the USO crowd was openly rooting for him when it was obvious he wasn’t going to beat Medvedev was telling. Novak wants all the records and also wants the adulation. It’s a Sisyphean task, it’s not going to happen. At least not while he’s dominating. Novak lacks that veneer of “humility” that Federer and Rafa appear to have and crowds eat up, is it unfair? Of course it is, IMO they are as driven and probably as egocentric/selfish as he is, but it translates more openly with him. Call it the Sally Field “ You like me, you really like” syndrome.

Life is unfair despite what my first grade teacher told me.

At the ‘21 USO They were cheering Novak precisely because he was LOSING, does Novak really want fans’ love that way? Hell no, finally make his peace at being the villain and keep on winning should be his motto.

The crowd's sympathy and the crowd's love aren't the same thing. The crowd can afford to be generous when you lose. If you can enjoy Novak's chip on the shoulder and the insecurities, good for you. I find the craving for the crowd's affection to be cringe-worthy. But it's not just that. He gives off two messages at the same time. He wants to be loved by the crowd, appreciated for all of his accomplishments, but he is also unrepentant in his bad behavior on court, (and some missteps off-court.) I don't think he gets to have it both ways. It is true that Roger and Rafa have provided a correct "veneer" (excellent word,) that everyone is looking for. On Roger's part, it didn't even have to be humility, when he was on top of the world, because he wasn't at all humble. Just the right amount of "courtliness." Djokovic can't seem to get the formula right, but it's on him, too. I agree that we don't always like the ones that win too much. I was endlessly bored by Sampras, and I've only warmed to Federer in his later stage. But it's not just winning too much that has put Novak on his back foot with the fans. He's done some of that, himself. Early on, it was mostly just not being Federer or Nadal, but since then, he's done a certain amount of shooting himself in the foot. I don't believe he is ever going to be happy to play the villain, so he's always going to fight the war between wanting to win, and wanting to win over the crowd. That could hamstring him in his desire to reach both objectives.

 

[Jelenafan]

The crowd's sympathy and the crowd's love aren't the same thing. The crowd can afford to be generous when you lose. If you can enjoy Novak's chip on the shoulder and the insecurities, good for you. I find the craving for the crowd's affection to be cringe-worthy. But it's not just that. He gives off two messages at the same time. He wants to be loved by the crowd, appreciated for all of his accomplishments, but he is also unrepentant in his bad behavior on court, (and some missteps off-court.) I don't think he gets to have it both ways. It is true that Roger and Rafa have provided a correct "veneer" (excellent word,) that everyone is looking for. On Roger's part, it didn't even have to be humility, when he was on top of the world, because he wasn't at all humble. Just the right amount of "courtliness." Djokovic can't seem to get the formula right, but it's on him, too. I agree that we don't always like the ones that win too much. I was endlessly bored by Sampras, and I've only warmed to Federer in his later stage. But it's not just winning too much that has put Novak on his back foot with the fans. He's done some of that, himself. Early on, it was mostly just not being Federer or Nadal, but since then, he's done a certain amount of shooting himself in the foot. I don't believe he is ever going to be happy to play the villain, so he's always going to fight the war between wanting to win, and wanting to win over the crowd. That could hamstring him in his desire to reach both objectives.

Of course it's all subjective, and I confess I find his transparent neediness more appealing than Federer's disingenuous entitlement. Sue me, but with Federer the way he bought into "the living legend/RF brand" of his fans was far more annoying through the years. Novak is more of a showboat, an exhibitionist in a way that Rafa and Roger are not, though I think the weight of all three of their EGOS would sink the Titanic without an iceberg. ; )

Maybe as you said, Novak has always been this conflicted with these two goals , but no one can dispute he's been able to navigate that conflict winningly. So I'm not so sure THAT, and not injuries, burnt-out, etc will do him in. 2019 W when all the Centre court crowd was just waiting to exhale and crown Federer and erupt in the RF's coronation ceremony, Novak's "screw you, I'm still here" was so impressive. So maybe not happy, but Novak will reconcile to whatever he needs to keep on winning IMO.

 

[Moxie]

Of course it's all subjective, and I confess I find his transparent neediness more appealing than Federer's disingenuous entitlement. Sue me, but with Federer the way he bought into "the living legend/RF brand" of his fans was far more annoying through the years. Novak is more of a showboat, an exhibitionist in a way that Rafa and Roger are not, though I think the weight of all three of their EGOS would sink the Titanic without an iceberg. ; )

Maybe as you said, Novak has always been this conflicted with these two goals , but no one can dispute he's been able to navigate that conflict winningly. So I'm not so sure THAT, and not injuries, burnt-out, etc will do him in. 2019 W when all the Centre court crowd was just waiting to exhale and crown Federer and erupt in the RF's coronation ceremony, Novak's "screw you, I'm still here" was so impressive. So maybe not happy, but Novak will reconcile to whatever he needs to keep on winning IMO.

I will say, I don't think there was anything "disingenuous" about Roger's entitlement, in the day. I absolutely think he owned it, and I agree that it was plenty irritating. (@Kieran will be pleased if a mention again the gold epaulets and the gilded kit-bag.) Even given that, though, I don't think that they are so much egotists as ambitious and driven. I would say that it is the weight of their ambition and talent that would sink the Titanic. They all 3 seem to have more drive and competitiveness in their little fingers than the rest of the field combined, even now.

I'm not sure if the "screw you" attitude is enough to carry Novak through, given his desire for approval, but we shall see. But, after the Australian Open PR debacle, he's going to have to get used to wearing that black hat, for a while, I think.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I will say, I don't think there was anything "disingenuous" about Roger's entitlement, in the day. I absolutely think he owned it, and I agree that it was plenty irritating. (@Kieran will be pleased if a mention again the gold epaulets and the gilded kit-bag.) Even given that, though, I don't think that they are so much egotists as ambitious and driven. I would say that it is the weight of their ambition and talent that would sink the Titanic. They all 3 seem to have more drive and competitiveness in their little fingers than the rest of the field combined, even now.

I'm not sure if the "screw you" attitude is enough to carry Novak through, given his desire for approval, but we shall see. But, after the Australian Open PR debacle, he's going to have to get used to wearing that black hat, for a while, I think.

We gonna see, no? - Nadal's facial expression

 

[Jelenafan]

I will say, I don't think there was anything "disingenuous" about Roger's entitlement, in the day. I absolutely think he owned it, and I agree that it was plenty irritating. (@Kieran will be pleased if a mention again the gold epaulets and the gilded kit-bag.)...

Don't forget the Gold RF sneakers and the embroidered "15" jacket he wore minutes after he bested Roddick in the 09 Wimbledon final.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Novak to me has low self esteem,he has to have constant approval to be liked,which I find to be very immature,he also carries 'a chip on his shoulder...
People can carry on about Roger....though at the end of the day to me he has 'never been needy' like Novak...
People admire Roger for what he has brought to the court,out of Novak and Rafa,he is more a natural athlete.The other two really had to work on their games,to their credit.
Tennis is a singular sport and of course one has to have a 'ego'....it depends on your version of ego..and which player you can relate to on and off the court.

 

[Fiero425]

Novak to me has low self esteem,he has to have constant approval to be liked,which I find to be very immature,he also carries 'a chip on his shoulder...
People can carry on about Roger....though at the end of the day to me he has 'never been needy' like Novak...
People admire Roger for what he has brought to the court,out of Novak and Rafa,he is more a natural athlete.The other two really had to work at their games,to their credit.
Tennis is a singular sport and of course one has to have a 'ego'....it depends on your version of ego.

I think we need to move on! We're not looking any better with suppositions of emotions, self-esteem, ego, and the like! Novak's country was war torn so I can't and won't pass judgment on his mentality! He seems like a good enough person, so I give him a pass; esp. when being picked on by the ugly, stupid masses!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I think we need to move on! We're not looking any better with suppositions of emotions, self-esteem, ego, and the like! Novak's country was war torn so I can't and won't pass judgment on his mentality! He seems like a good enough person, so I give him a pass; esp. when being picked on by the ugly, stupid masses!

Please give the worn torn country a rest,that is old news,move on.I also find Novak fans to have Chips On Their Shoulders,must off caught that off their Idol lol! ....oh wait I will be called a Hater shortly lol!

 

[Jelenafan]

I think we need to move on! We're not looking any better with suppositions of emotions, self-esteem, ego, and the like! Novak's country was war torn so I can't and won't pass judgment on his mentality! He seems like a good enough person, so I give him a pass; esp. when being picked on by the ugly, stupid masses!

C"mmon Fiero, we pass judgement on all the players, it's what we do !

 

[Fiero425]

C'mon Fiero, we pass judgement on all the players. It's what we do!

The funny thing is I'm not that much of a fan of any player these days! I just appreciate Novak being the underdog all these years while the Tennis Intelligentsia still goes "GaGa" over Fedal thinking the sport begins and ends with them! I love how this Serbian kid who's been just pilloried for as long as I can recall, but overcame "the hate" to surpass the efforts of these "Godly" entities put on a pedestal so high, they can barely be seen!

 

[Moxie]

I think we need to move on! We're not looking any better with suppositions of emotions, self-esteem, ego, and the like! Novak's country was war torn so I can't and won't pass judgment on his mentality! He seems like a good enough person, so I give him a pass; esp. when being picked on by the ugly, stupid masses!

You are as critical as they come for no reason on plenty of players, (getting covid, not retiring, not beating top guys,) and yet you give Novak a total pass. Yes, he has a compelling origin story, but I'm not just talking about his mentality, I'm talking about dodgy behavior.

I'll tell you what I am over is this new Cold War whereby a Russian like Medvedev, and a Balkans guy like Novak act as if their lack of love is about being from the wrong side of the old Berlin Wall. That is SO not taking responsibility for their own misbehavior.

 

[Jelenafan]

...I'll tell you what I am over is this new Cold War whereby a Russian like Medvedev, and a Balkans guy like Novak act as if their lack of love is about being from the wrong side of the old Berlin Wall. That is SO not taking responsibility for their own misbehavior.

Love his fellow Russian Aslan Karatsev's pragmatic view on this:

"For me, it's pretty normal. Nadal came back after six months, so all the fans wanted to support him. Maybe in that moment, Medvedev was disappointed. He felt it was adding extra pressure against him. But after some period of time he will understand that he was playing against Rafael Nadal. It will be the same if he plays against Roger Federer. Everybody loves them. Especially because Rafa was injured and was coming back and playing in the final… It's not nice when someone's clapping in between first and second serves. I can understand because it has happened to me also. But you cannot do anything. You cannot tell the fans 'c'mon support me'. It doesn't make sense."

https://www.news9live.com/sports/te...u-says-aslan-karatsev-150658?infinitescroll=1

 

[Kieran]

Federer was the most narcissistic of all tennis players, when he was winning unopposed. If the bloke was made of whipped cream, he’d lick himself to death. The village people outfit he wore at Wimbledon, with the gold handbag, was only the most outward expression of how inwardly he adored himself. He was like some ugly French monarch, wearing pasty make up and high heels, smugly thinking that everyone must love the kings new outfit. This is why I never took to him, and never once believed the claims that his endless humblebrags were humility, or the insane comparisons with Sampras, who was great without drawing attention to himself, and practical and unassuming in the way he did everything…

 

[Kieran]

The funny thing is I'm not that much of a fan of any player these days! I just appreciate Novak being the underdog all these years while the Tennis Intelligentsia still goes "GaGa" over Fedal thinking the sport begins and ends with them! I love how this Serbian kid who's been just pilloried for as long as I can recall, but overcame "the hate" to surpass the efforts of these "Godly" entities put on a pedestal so high, they can barely be seen!

You’re more an all round tennis fan, to me, and I think you used to be in Federer’s corner but switched, for the reason you said. But Djoker divides people, but often he warms them too. His problem was that he arrived at the top table after fans had largely already picked a player, so he was never going to say too many fans from their champion. The Fedal rivalry was too toxic for anyone to walk away from…

 

[Fiero425]

Federer was the most narcissistic of all tennis players, when he was winning unopposed. If the bloke was made of whipped cream, he’d lick himself to death. The village people outfit he wore at Wimbledon, with the gold handbag, was only the most outward expression of how inwardly he adored himself. He was like some ugly French monarch, wearing pasty make up and high heels, smugly thinking that everyone must love the kings new outfit. This is why I never took to him, and never once believed the claims that his endless humblebrags were humility, or the insane comparisons with Sampras, who was great without drawing attention to himself, and practical and unassuming in the way he did everything…

Shocking! People forget all this stuff, but I don't! The self-love back in those days was nauseating! Fed sustained it even though Rafa owned him! ;-)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Federer was the most narcissistic of all tennis players, when he was winning unopposed. If the bloke was made of whipped cream, he’d lick himself to death. The village people outfit he wore at Wimbledon, with the gold handbag, was only the most outward expression of how inwardly he adored himself. He was like some ugly French monarch, wearing pasty make up and high heels, smugly thinking that everyone must love the kings new outfit. This is why I never took to him, and never once believed the claims that his endless humblebrags were humility, or the insane comparisons with Sampras, who was great without drawing attention to himself, and practical and unassuming in the way he did everything…

I have to agree the St.Peppers outfit with the gold handbag was indeed a 'cringe worthy moment' Iol!

 

[Kieran]

I have to agree the St.Peppers outfit with the gold handbag was indeed a 'cringe worthy moment' Iol!

It was several cringe worthy moments, But they were the most revealing moments, too, if we wanted an insight into the mind of a deranged narcissist…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

It was several cringe worthy moments, But they were the most revealing moments, too, if we wanted an insight into the mind of a deranged narcissist…

I get your not a fan lol!

 

[Kieran]

I get your not a fan lol!

Never liked the bastard…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Never liked the bastard…

Well I wont be sending you a Roger Hat and Mug for Christmas then lol!