MargaretMcAleer
The GOAT
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Sorry I just woke up,I need to get with the current programIt was posted already, Margaret. But thank you though...
Sorry I just woke up,I need to get with the current programIt was posted already, Margaret. But thank you though...
Well Vince there are definitely double standards when it comes to discipline. I'm pretty sure Serena was fined somewhere near 90K when she had her tirade at the 09 USO and that was after being accessed a point penalty which just so happened to be on MP. Furthermore, a probation period after that where she had to be on her best behavior at the slams for 6 or 9 months.Medvedev loses the Australian Open, but wins a title -
Daniil Medvedev lost a grand slam but won a title: the prat of the tournament.
To be fair, this was a tennis tournament; there was significant competition. But Medvedev’s outburst at the chair umpire, when he threw a fit that escalated into aggressive ravings and wild screaming in the semi-final, was the low moment.
Bear in mind this was a competition that began with and without Novak Djokovic.
That tennis players are often stuck in a stunted, solipsistic loop is not new. That they are still indulged and pandered to by apologetic authorities is also lamentably unchanged.
Medvedev’s complaint about Stefanos Tsitsipas being coached by his dad in the stands began with some merit, but that was quickly lost among his wild ravings and abuse.
Tennis deserves this. It has done nothing to stop pathetic behaviour. Medvedev later received two fines totalling $12,000 for his childish tantrum. As a semi-finalist, he was guaranteed $895,000.
Fines, especially of this size, are laughable nonsense. What is costly to a player who as the eventual runner-up pocketed $1.57 million? Points or games in the match. Hurt them in the moment.
Medvedev should have been warned within seconds of the start of his tirade that he would lose a point. He then should have lost a game and the referee been prepared to disqualify him.
“I regret it [losing my cool] all the time because I don’t think it’s nice,” Medvedev said of his outburst after the match. He agrees it’s not nice, and he’d rather not behave that way, but seemingly he has no real power or incentive to change his behaviour in the moment.
Rugby does its best with its paternalistic dressing down of players. Soccer lost the battle when it allowed players to lay hands on referees. The AFL feared the slippery slope of demonstrative umpire abuse and invoked strong on-field penalties. The value of doing so was plain to see at Melbourne Park these last two weeks.
He spoke of the crowd’s disrespect at making noises between serves. Seriously. Pot, kettle, black.
Medvedev was not alone for the competition of the self-absorbed is always keen at the tennis.
Canadian Denis Shapovalov shouted at the chair umpire in the quarter-finals that Rafael Nadal was getting away with time-wasting and the chair umpires were all star struck and gave him and the big three players liberties. “You guys are all corrupt,” he said to the umpire.
Later, after losing the quarter-final, he said he had misspoken. He was fined $8000 and the tennis authorities boasted it was the heaviest fine of the tournament. Shapovalov pocketed $538,500 for losing the quarter-final.
What Shapovalov said was worse than Medvedev. The way he carried on was not. Both should have immediately lost points and games, at the very least.
The great frustration with Medvedev is that he is a phenomenal player. He is tall, fast across the court, gets absolutely everything back, has a huge serve and every shot in the book, including a backhand that is the best in world tennis. His talent is not in question. His behaviour is.
Medvedev said having the crowd seemingly always against him meant he was not playing for anyone but himself anymore and had crushed his boyhood dreams.
“The kid stopped dreaming. The kid is going to play for himself,” Medvedev said in the wee hours of Monday morning, talking about himself in the third person.
“From now on I’m playing for myself, for my family, to provide [for] my family, for people that trust in me [and] of course for all the Russians because I feel a lot of support there.”
OK, fine. But Daniil, you know which other kids might have stopped dreaming? The ball kids you embarrassed when you barked at them about where they should be standing and running when they were standing and running precisely where they had been trained to stand and run.
And then you carried on to the chair umpire about it. I mean seriously, Daniil, the ball kids?
The thing is, Medvedev is right – the crowds were often loud and raucous, disrespectful and un-tennis-like.
This Open created a sport versus entertainment debate that sporting bodies have been wrestling with for years. The more outrageous the behaviour on the court, the more people tune in, and organisers love the eyeballs on the TV even if what you’re seeing is not the product they really want you to watch.
But you cannot be outrageously disrespectful as a player and then complain about a lack of respect.
Similarly, you cannot ask crowds to be loud then complain when they are. Think of the Special Ks, the Aussie doubles pair that engaged the crowd and wound them up like an uncle with red cordial at a kids party – then left them to let the parents try to get the kids to sleep.
“The rowdier, the better from everyone, honestly ... sink piss and come here,” Thanasi Kokkinakis said. Next match he and Nick Kyrgios complained about the crowd being loud between serves.
By Michael Gleeson
The Age, online
Michael Geeson is an award-winning senior sports writer specialising in AFL and athletics.Connect via Twitter or email.
Absolutely, the umpire should be all over anything like this. Rafa’s takes too long between points. Now, I did read somewhere that in that match, Rafa took an average 31 seconds, and Shapo took 29, in which case his argument is more shaky, but I didn’t read that stat from an official source, so maybe the stat is even shakier!Aren’t we kind of proving Shapovalov’s point about officials not administering policy fairly and consistently though? I don’t disagree with Shapo about his qualm in general because he isn’t the first to say it about Nadal. His manner in which he did it wasn’t acceptable. If you look at what happened to Serena in her matches versus what happened with Shapovalov and Daniil, policy wasn’t administered fairly and there was a definite bias. Denis’ overall argument about bias stands. I doubt he wanted to be on the other side of the fairness talk, but it still stands when you see how officials handled Serena versus Denis and Daniil. Corrupt isn’t the right word for it, but poor officiating might be the better term.
Absolutely, the umpire should be all over anything like this. Rafa’s takes too long between points. Now, I did read somewhere that in that match, Rafa took an average 31 seconds, and Shapo took 29, in which case his argument is more shaky, but I didn’t read that stat from an official source, so maybe the stat is even shakier!
I don't think that we were talking about the match where Serena threatened a lineswoman, but the one where she called Carlos Ramos a "thief." Which is much the same as Shapo calling the ump "corrupt," or Medvedev shouting at the ump about Tsitsipas. It's all abuse of an umpire, and Serena got fined $90K, according to Kskate, (and we know she got assessed a point penalty,) and Medvedev got fined $12K, while receiving no point penalty on court. The article provided by @Vince Evert above makes some important points. One is that if you fine millionaires after the fact the equivalent of a parking ticket, you won't make a change. Assess penalties in the moment, when it hurts them in the game. Another point here is to ask why Serena has been punished, severely, in the moment, when the men haven't? (I'm sorry, but that is a VERY good question.) IMO, men are seen as allowed to "blow of steam" in a way that is considered "unseemly" for women, and is therefore punished more harshly on women, and allowed to pass more than it should, on men.Absolutely, the umpire should be all over anything like this. Rafa’s takes too long between points. Now, I did read somewhere that in that match, Rafa took an average 31 seconds, and Shapo took 29, in which case his argument is more shaky, but I didn’t read that stat from an official source, so maybe the stat is even shakier!
But regardless, the umpire is responsible to speed up the players, for both players sakes.
In Serena’s match, she threatened a lineswoman. She’d got off lightly for that, it was disgraceful…
Thanks MOX, I am VERY CONCERNED that the crowds boisterous nature from what we seen and heard throughout the tournament , including some protestors, could become a regular fixture at the australian open.I don't think that we were talking about the match where Serena threatened a lineswoman, but the one where she called Carlos Ramos a "thief." Which is much the same as Shapo calling the ump "corrupt," or Medvedev shouting at the ump about Tsitsipas. It's all abuse of an umpire, and Serena got fined $90K, according to Kskate, (and we know she got assessed a point penalty,) and Medvedev got fined $12K, while receiving no point penalty on court. The article provided by @Vince Evert above makes some important points. One is that if you fine millionaires after the fact the equivalent of a parking ticket, you won't make a change. Assess penalties in the moment, when it hurts them in the game. Another point here is to ask why Serena has been punished, severely, in the moment, when the men haven't? (I'm sorry, but that is a VERY good question.) IMO, men are seen as allowed to "blow of steam" in a way that is considered "unseemly" for women, and is therefore punished more harshly on women, and allowed to pass more than it should, on men.
I agree with the human element in having an umpire there to pass judgement, and you can't always make a perfect coherent evaluation of the rules, in the moment. But in terms of the ITP (which governs the Majors) handing out fines, I don't see how there could be such a disparate ruling on Serena and Meddie. And I'm not even sure what has been given to Shapo, in terms of sanction. But what is the difference between calling an umpire "a thief", and calling another one "corrupt? Someone explain that. And, if you look at it more closely, Carlos Ramos (the ump) docked Serena a point, which is why she called him a thief. All Shapo was complaining about was Bernardes not calling Rafa on slow play, and, as @tented has pointed out, the difference in shot clock between them was 2 seconds, across the match. Who was more hard done by, in their match? Shapovalov was just pissed off because he was losing.
I don't think that we were talking about the match where Serena threatened a lineswoman, but the one where she called Carlos Ramos a "thief." Which is much the same as Shapo calling the ump "corrupt," or Medvedev shouting at the ump about Tsitsipas. It's all abuse of an umpire, and Serena got fined $90K, according to Kskate, (and we know she got assessed a point penalty,) and Medvedev got fined $12K, while receiving no point penalty on court. The article provided by @Vince Evert above makes some important points. One is that if you fine millionaires after the fact the equivalent of a parking ticket, you won't make a change. Assess penalties in the moment, when it hurts them in the game. Another point here is to ask why Serena has been punished, severely, in the moment, when the men haven't? (I'm sorry, but that is a VERY good question.) IMO, men are seen as allowed to "blow of steam" in a way that is considered "unseemly" for women, and is therefore punished more harshly on women, and allowed to pass more than it should, on men.
I agree with the human element in having an umpire there to pass judgement, and you can't always make a perfect coherent evaluation of the rules, in the moment. But in terms of the ITP (which governs the Majors) handing out fines, I don't see how there could be such a disparate ruling on Serena and Meddie. And I'm not even sure what has been given to Shapo, in terms of sanction. But what is the difference between calling an umpire "a thief", and calling another one "corrupt? Someone explain that. And, if you look at it more closely, Carlos Ramos (the ump) docked Serena a point, which is why she called him a thief. All Shapo was complaining about was Bernardes not calling Rafa on slow play, and, as @tented has pointed out, the difference in shot clock between them was 2 seconds, across the match. Who was more hard done by, in their match? Shapovalov was just pissed off because he was losing.
I'm pretty sure Serena was fined somewhere near 90K when she had her tirade at the 09 USO and that was after being accessed a point penalty which just so happened to be on MP.
UPDATE... Unofficial stat -Hey, i suppose i ask this question yesterday but has there been any word yet what was the ESPN ratings on the mens' and ladies' singles final? Using google I certainly have not found the ratings.
OK, I will take remedial reading comprehension, and review the above.The match I believe @kskate2 referred to is the one where she threatened the lineswoman:
That was 2009. For that, Serena was fined $175,000, but only had to pay $82,500 with the rest suspended for 3 years, depending on her behaviour at the slams in that time.
Serena fined $175,000 for U.S. Open tirade
World number one Serena Williams has been fined $175,000 and put on probation for two years for her foul-mouthed tirade at the U.S. Open, the Grand Slam Committee said on Monday.mobile.reuters.com
In 2018, when she called Carlos Ramos “a thief”, she was fined $17,000 - $10,000 for verbal abuse, $4000 for the coaching warning, and $3000 for breaking the racket.
Serena Williams Fined $17,000 For 3 Code Violations In U.S. Open Final
The fine comes a day after the match was marred by controversy and arguments between Williams and the umpire. Williams was defeated by Naomi Osaka, who won her first Grand Slam title, 6-2, 6-4.www.npr.org
Medvedev was fined $12,000 for his meltdown, and Tsitsipas was fined almost $5000 for his coaching warning.
I don’t see that Serena was treated worse because she’s a woman. And by the way, unfortunately Carlos Ramos hasn’t umpired a grand slam final since…