2020 French Open Final: Novak Djokovic vs. Rafael Nadal

[Bonaca]

Nice history recap, @Jelenafan!

TBH, I was really just tweaking ol' Bonaca's tail, since he was trying to downgrade RG. (That old trope that somehow clay doesn't count.) Of course I know that in this era, that we're talking about, if we're talking about the GOAT race, and for quite a while, all Slams are weighted the same. (I was just hoping no one would point that out. LOL!)

Again wrong granny, for someone who is acting like a superior intelligence, pretty weak.

I wasn’t downgrading RG, I downgrade your rabbit, as a lesser complete player than the other two.
The ass-to-mouth Psycho is most dependent on this slow dirt. Just to run like a pimped horse isn’t enough to be considered goat.


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[Carol]

The other dumb....Mouratoglou's opinion.

Patrick Mouratoglou: It was not the Djokovic mindset - Eye of the Coach

Patrick Mouratoglou says that Novak Djokovic wasn’t ready to compete on Rafael Nadal’s level during Sunday’s Roland-Garros final in Paris.

www.tennismajors.com

 

[Moxie]

Again wrong granny, for someone who is acting like a superior intelligence, pretty weak.

I wasn’t downgrading RG, I downgrade your rabbit, as a lesser complete player than the other two.
The ass-to-mouth Psycho is most dependent on this slow dirt. Just to run like a pimped horse isn’t enough to be considered goat.


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Look, I'm sorry if you got insulted that I called you a "moron." I don't think you are one...just that you act like one sometimes, as in the above post. Maybe you have never insulted me personally in the past. I'm not keeping score. But you do say a lot of rude and insulting stuff about my favorite player. I would have said I'm much more decorous when it comes to yours. This is the internet. People get aggravated and punches get thrown. Sometimes one lands on the nose. I'm sure you can take it and not let it spoil our friendship.

As to the above, and ignoring the gross bits, you love to downgrade Rafa as a "rabbit" and "Bob the Builder", etc., as if it's not talent but just being a slogger that got the man 20 Majors. There are many great grinders in tennis that don't have 1, let alone 20 Majors. If you seriously think that Nadal has no talent, or no claim to GOATness in tennis, then, yes, you are acting like a tennis moron. And a blinkered fanboy. Just a reminder, Rafa has 7 Majors off of clay, winning one of his Wimbledons by beating the grass GOAT...in his salad years, and not when he was far past his prime. He also won Australia beating Roger there, and 2 of his four USOpens (to date) beating Novak. Including peak and nearly peak Novak.

I don't care how much you make the case for your man...that's your job as a fan. But you spend an awful lot of time tearing down Nadal...smells like fear to me, same as the Fed fans have done for years.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nadal is apparently a rabbit while Djokovic and Federer are what, turtles? All of them are super fast. Also if you take out for example Federer’s serve Nadal would pretty much beat him all the time with all the other shots. Nadal is the most talented player in the world he builds points and he is very smart out there not just a ball basher or a servebot. He has every shot in the book. Federer mostly counts on his serve and Djokovic is just a boring mechanical hitting machine similar to Murray but stronger mentally. Nadal is a genius who mixes things up and thinks out there, that’s why he will end up with the slam record. He will probably win as many RG titles as Djokovic total slams.

 

[Jelenafan]

Nadal is apparently a rabbit while Djokovic and Federer are what, turtles? All of them are super fast. ...

Yes, I've never understood how only Rafa chases balls down, all three of them have that ability. I've mentioned this before, but when it comes to sheer physical stamina and grinding out a match I would even give the nod these days to Novak. Plus when are defensive skills not a talent? Offensive power players are a dime a dozen, but how many of them can play defense? That is the problem with so much of Nextgen, they have the power and flashy shots, but they can't seem to construct a point to save their lives, or know when to switch from defense to offense and then back, which for now Medvedev is struggling with.

 

[Moxie]

Yes, I've never understood how only Rafa chases balls down, all three of them have that ability. I've mentioned this before, but when it comes to sheer physical stamina and grinding out a match I would even give the nod these days to Novak. Plus when are defensive skills not a talent? Offensive power players are a dime a dozen, but how many of them can play defense? That is the problem with so much of Nextgen, they have the power and flashy shots, but they can't seem to construct a point to save their lives, or know when to switch from defense to offense and then back, which for now Medvedev is struggling with.

Additionally, when we talk about how they can run, we don't talk about footwork. The big 3 have great footwork, and manage to stay balanced most of the time.

A question I have about Next Gen, following on from our conversation on another thread, is why are they not learning from their elders? Or seeming not to. Fedalovic have all insisted that they've made each other better. I can understand if the upcoming crew aren't exactly as talented as these 3, but why aren't THEY learning by example? They have the best in the business right in front of them. Point construction, commitment, stamina, will to win. It's not just theoretical...it's there for them to see and learn from. When is it going to make them better players, as the Big 3 and even 4 said they did of each other?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Yes, I've never understood how only Rafa chases balls down, all three of them have that ability. I've mentioned this before, but when it comes to sheer physical stamina and grinding out a match I would even give the nod these days to Novak. Plus when are defensive skills not a talent? Offensive power players are a dime a dozen, but how many of them can play defense? That is the problem with so much of Nextgen, they have the power and flashy shots, but they can't seem to construct a point to save their lives, or know when to switch from defense to offense and then back, which for now Medvedev is struggling with.

That is why players being brought up on clay are taught how to construct a point and use the whole court.,also switch from defense to offense,just the basic tools on clay,footwork of course.Also where has the volley gone? juniors aren't taught how to volley correctly,or at all.The more variety in your game the better.

 

[calitennis127]

Nadal is apparently a rabbit while Djokovic and Federer are what, turtles? All of them are super fast. Also if you take out for example Federer’s serve Nadal would pretty much beat him all the time with all the other shots. Nadal is the most talented player in the world he builds points and he is very smart out there not just a ball basher or a servebot. He has every shot in the book. Federer mostly counts on his serve and Djokovic is just a boring mechanical hitting machine similar to Murray but stronger mentally. Nadal is a genius who mixes things up and thinks out there, that’s why he will end up with the slam record. He will probably win as many RG titles as Djokovic total slams.

Djokovic just a boring mechanical hitting machine? That is completely stupid. And you are of course defining Nadal as tennis perfection simply because he just won Roland Garros. But Nadal hasn’t been perfect (or anywhere close) at Miami, Bercy, Shanghai, or World Tour Finals (to name just a few), has he? At World Tour Finals the guy can barely hit 5 winners in a match.

And there’s no way Nadal is a better overall player than Federer outside of serve. He does have a more consistent backhand with the 2-handed, but to say he reads points better or has more shots is ridiculous.

 

[Ricardo]

Nadal is apparently a rabbit while Djokovic and Federer are what, turtles? All of them are super fast. Also if you take out for example Federer’s serve Nadal would pretty much beat him all the time with all the other shots. Nadal is the most talented player in the world he builds points and he is very smart out there not just a ball basher or a servebot. He has every shot in the book. Federer mostly counts on his serve and Djokovic is just a boring mechanical hitting machine similar to Murray but stronger mentally. Nadal is a genius who mixes things up and thinks out there, that’s why he will end up with the slam record. He will probably win as many RG titles as Djokovic total slams.

Have point this out, take away Feds serve? take away Nadals forehand and one can say he wouldn’t win a single major, this is insane bs. Or take away Djokers bh? No no no, you can’t take away nothing and make assumptions based on that crap.

Are the fans stupid or what?

 

[Ricardo]

Again wrong granny, for someone who is acting like a superior intelligence, pretty weak.

I wasn’t downgrading RG, I downgrade your rabbit, as a lesser complete player than the other two.
The ass-to-mouth Psycho is most dependent on this slow dirt. Just to run like a pimped horse isn’t enough to be considered goat.


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The lesser player just smashed the complete player, like he did 12 years ago against Federer. At some point even a knucklehead like you need to wake up to the fact that Nadal is a beast, and totally superior to anyone on clay.

And he is just a rabbit? Bullshit, he is nowhere nearly as fast as he was 10 years ago with that crooked knee, even a healthy player is never as fast in mid 30s than 20s. He beat the crap out of Djoker not because he is that fast, it’s simply he is better....also it was played in a condition that didn’t suit him.

The more you belittle Nadal, the more it makes you an ass.

 

[Moxie]

Have point this out, take away Feds serve? take away Nadals forehand and one can say he wouldn’t win a single major, this is insane bs. Or take away Djokers bh? No no no, you can’t take away nothing and make assumptions based on that crap.

Are the fans stupid or what?

Read Cali's just above where he says that Nadal's serve is better than Roger's. There's a lot of crap being thrown in anger on the forums, at the moment. Slam race tightens and everyone is on edge.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Have point this out, take away Feds serve? take away Nadals forehand and one can say he wouldn’t win a single major, this is insane bs. Or take away Djokers bh? No no no, you can’t take away nothing and make assumptions based on that crap.

Are the fans stupid or what?

Obviously you haven’t read the posts trashing Nadal and his zero talent to understand why I answered that way.

 

[Moxie]

Obviously you haven’t read the posts trashing Nadal and his zero talent to understand why I answered that way.

Yes, but haven't you been trying to make Roger out to be a "servebot" for a while now? Defending ignorance with ignorance isn't the most winning strategy, imho.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Yes, but haven't you been trying to make Roger out to be a "servebot" for a while now? Defending ignorance with ignorance isn't the most winning strategy, imho.

There is no logic or winning strategy with the likes of Bonaca or Cali, you just have to act as ignorant as them to get the message across.

 

[Moxie]

There is no logic or winning strategy with the likes of Bonaca or Cali, you just have to act as ignorant as them to get the message across.

You do have a point about them. I've just never seen ignorance as a winning strategy, but you do you.

 

[Ricardo]

Did I insult you personally before you call me a moron? Ever?


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But you are, it wasn’t an insult.

 

[Ricardo]

Read Cali's just above where he says that Nadal's serve is better than Roger's. There's a lot of crap being thrown in anger on the forums, at the moment. Slam race tightens and everyone is on edge.

Incomprehensible anger. Djokovic just got smashed by the greatest clay courter on clay, that’s all....and it was even played in a condition that totally suited him, he couldn’t have picked a better time/playing condition. If there is any blame, it was on Djokovic not up to it. Somehow in their twisted mind, some idiot finds it justifiable to belittle the guy who won it 13 times, as if he shouldn’t have....or wasn’t supposed to be good enough. Djokovic fans have a bad reputation for a reason.

Like Nadal said, it wasn’t his best match, it was merely one of the best finals he played.

 

[AMR]

But Djokovic's serving issues did not start with this match, so stop being so narcissistic as a Nadal fan. Djokovic has been having these issues for months, and they really came back to bite him against Tsitsipas. Are you going to say that Tsitsipas's comeback was all about Tsitsipas becoming Mike Tyson and Djokovic not being able to handle his punch? Maybe Djokovic's serving issues don't have to do with his opponents and simply have to do with himself.

All I am saying is that - regardless of Nadal's level and whether Djokovic's drop shots are being executed well - there is no excuse for the #1 player in the world to only make 40% of first serves in the first set of a Grand Slam final. Why is that a controversial position? And why do you want to put all the credit on Nadal for that?

If Djokovic was serving at 70% and Nadal still mauled him 6-0, that would be totally different. But that's not what happened.

In the second set, Djokovic made 77% of his first serves. He was mauled 6-2.
For the match, Djokovic made a higher percentage of first serves than Nadal (67% vs 65%)
Serve points won: Djokovic 49, Nadal 56. Not as big a difference as you would think.
Return points won: Djokovic 27, Nadal 50. This is where the match was won.

Through the first two sets, Nadal had put 98% of service returns in play. A ridiculous number. Isn't Djokovic the greatest returner ever? How did Nadal win almost twice as many return points as Djokovic? It's not like Nadal has a hammer serve. It's normally just a point starter.

This was the best "returns in play match" I've ever seen from Nadal. I've always believed that putting the return in play is the most important stat. Even a weak return is better than not putting it in play. Your opponent could make an error on a weak return. But if you don't put it in play, the point is over and it doesn't matter.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

In the second set, Djokovic made 77% of his first serves. He was mauled 6-2.
For the match, Djokovic made a higher percentage of first serves than Nadal (67% vs 65%)
Serve points won: Djokovic 49, Nadal 56. Not as big a difference as you would think.
Return points won: Djokovic 27, Nadal 50. This is where the match was won.

Through the first two sets, Nadal had put 98% of service returns in play. A ridiculous number. Isn't Djokovic the greatest returner ever? How did Nadal win almost twice as many return points as Djokovic? It's not like Nadal has a hammer serve. It's normally just a point starter.

This was the best "returns in play match" I've ever seen from Nadal. I've always believed that putting the return in play is the most important stat. Even a weak return is better than not putting it in play. Your opponent could make an error on a weak return. But if you don't put it in play, the point is over and it doesn't matter.

Welcome to Tennis Frontier! a most important stat in that final.

 

[Andy22]

Nadal is only perfect tennis player in the world unlike servebot error prone federer, and boring pusher djokovic only one of the big 3 to win on All surfaces twice making much more all rounded player majors the main thing NOT joke WTF.