2019 Roland Garros Men's Final: Rafael Nadal vs. Dominic Thiem

Who wins?


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Carol

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https://www.eirsport.ie/thiem-admits-fatigue-was-a-factor

Of course to clarify I am not saying the end result would still have been different. Nadal is a 12 time champion here and extremely hard ot beat in the final. I am just calling a spade as it is . The post was directed towards Mikron who insisted that the 3rd and 4th sets would have played out like it would have even if Thiem had '3 days rest'
Thiem played 4 sets in two days, agreed he didn't have 2 days off (and not 3, Rafa played on friday too) like Nadal but he is 25 years old and Nadal 33. If we would start to talk about how many times same players have reached the finals in bad conditions because they have played tough matches at 5 sets which is worse than two days in row and 4 sets then we have a lot to talk
 

tennisville

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I just wanted to point out also that Thiem did not get a fair shot at Nadal due to no fault of his own and completely the greed of the tournament organizers. This is why by the way Kermode was ousted
 

Moxie

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I just wanted to point out also that Thiem did not get a fair shot at Nadal due to no fault of his own and completely the greed of the tournament organizers. This is why by the way Kermode was ousted
I would say mostly greed, and some parts stupidity. But why do you think this relates to Kermode?
 

tennisville

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Thiem played 4 sets in two days, agreed he didn't have 2 days off (and not 3, Rafa played on friday too) like Nadal but he is 25 years old and Nadal 33. If we would start to talk about how many times same players have reached the finals in bad conditions because they have played tough matches at 5 sets which is worse than two days in row and 4 sets then we have a lot to talk
I dont know how you got the number 4 considering he was involved in a 5 setter. Thiem played 3 sets on Thursday, 2 on Friday and 3 on Saturday and had less than 24 hours to recover against Nadal who played 3 sets in the same time period. These are the facts. The 3 I quoted was from a Mike one post, nothing to do with what happened. I am sure that playing a 5 setter is tougher then playing 2 straight days but Thiem played 3 straight days, so I dont know which is tougher.

The fact again I repeat is that Theim did not get a fair shot at the trophy due to no fault of his own and the greed of the tournament organizers
 

tennisville

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I know it has not been said enough but irrespective of what the big 3 have achieved now and in the future, this is the single greatest achievement of tennis. It might even transcend tennis and be part of the greatest achievements in sports
 

Carol

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I dont know how you got the number 4 considering he was involved in a 5 setter. Thiem played 3 sets on Thursday, 2 on Friday and 3 on Saturday and had less than 24 hours to recover against Nadal who played 3 sets in the same time period. These are the facts. The 3 I quoted was from a Mike one post, nothing to do with what happened. I am sure that playing a 5 setter is tougher then playing 2 straight days but Thiem played 3 straight days, so I dont know which is tougher.

The fact again I repeat is that Theim did not get a fair shot at the trophy due to no fault of his own and the greed of the tournament organizers
Thiem played 2 sets and a half on Friday and 2 and a half on Saturday. By the way they could have played perfectly well on Friday but for some bad decisions (there are two versions) they didn't and then they had to do on Saturday.
 

tennisville

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Thiem played 2 sets and a half on Friday and 2 and a half on Saturday. By the way they could have played perfectly well on Friday but for some bad decisions (there are two versions) they didn't and then they had to do on Saturday.
Well he also played 3 sets on Thursday just to inform you. That is a fact. here is the order of play for Thursday, the day before the semi finals

https://www.rolandgarros.com/en-us/order-of-play?date=2019-06-06

And there is no 2 versions, Guy Forget clarified what happened
 

tennisville

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I would say mostly greed, and some parts stupidity. But why do you think this relates to Kermode?
It has been well known that Kermode used to support the tournaments getting richer over the players, he was head of the ATP which governed the rights of the players but never supported them.
 
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MikeOne

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I mean yeah who knows how the final would have played. But the thing is you are talking about an all time great player who is rested physically and ready to go vs a good player who played 3 sets on 3 straight days. Theim did become tired after the 2 hour mark which is what normal ATP matches play in regular tournaments and started missing his regular shots.

And just to point out, there is a difference in the level of opponents you play in a local club event and the later stages of a grand slam event, they are not comparable

Madrid 2018, Thiem went 3 sets on two consecutive days. He then faced, yep, you guessed it, Rafael Nadal. Guess what? Thiem beat Nadal! So why could Thiem play 6 tough sets on 2 days w/o rest, straight set Nadal in 2018 but in 2019, he's physically wasted after 5 sets in 2 days (in cool conditions with some rain delays)? i'm confused.. I guess because it was Djoker? I can see the mental effects but physically? No way, it is just illogical, 2.5 sets for a world pro is nothing...

I think what you saw in sets 3,4 was Nadal's effect on Thiem. Nadal makes you play at a very high level, every point. Thiem did it for 2 sets, then his level dipped a bit and he ate two breadsticks. As Thiem said after the match, against an avg. atp tour player, letting your game dip a bit may not mean you lose the set, against Nadal, you lose 6-1. Look at Stan Wawrinka in 2017, 3rd set was 6-1 and Thiem in 2018, 3rd set 6-2. See a pattern? Nadal's game is HELL...It is so difficult to maintain the concentration and high level to beat him... It is too much coincidence that Stan, Thiem lost 3rd sets 1,2,1... on 3 consecutive years. They were tired every year? Nadal does that to you, 100% fresh or not, at French Open where he brings his top level.
 
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atttomole

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Funny, I get crickets on this. Some people are very bold to make accusations, sliding them in when it's hard to counter, but when called out, have nothing to say. Further proof that the allegations are agenda-driven, and have no basis in reality.
The allegations may be agenda-driven. However, I guess Nadal's stamina can not be explained by science or medicine. How can his unparalleled stamina be explained?
 
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tennisville

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Madrid 2018, Thiem went 3 sets on two consecutive days. He then faced, yep, you guessed it, Rafael Nadal. Guess what? Thiem beat Nadal! So why could Thiem play 6 tough sets on 2 days w/o rest, straight set Nadal in 2018 but in 2019, he's physically wasted after 5 sets in 2 days (in cool conditions with some rain delays)? i'm confused.. I guess because it was Djoker? I can see the mental effects but physically? No way, it is just illogical, 2.5 sets for a world pro is nothing...

I think what you saw in sets 3,4 was Nadal's effect on Thiem. Nadal makes you play at a very high level, every point. Thiem did it for 2 sets, then his level dipped a bit and he ate two breadsticks. As Thiem said after the match, against an avg. atp tour player, letting your game dip a bit may not mean you lose the set, against Nadal, you lose 6-1. Look at Stan Wawrinka in 2017, 3rd set was 6-1 and Thiem in 2018, 3rd set 6-2. See a pattern? Nadal's game is HELL...It is so difficult to maintain the concentration and high level to beat him... It is too much coincidence that Stan, Thiem lost 3rd sets 1,2,1... on 3 consecutive years. They were tired every year? Nadal does that to you, 100% fresh or not, at French Open where he brings his top level.
Again it makes logical sense because playing 8 sets over 3 days vs an opponent who played 3 during the same time is different than playing 6 sets over 2 days against an opponent who played 4 during the same time. Nadal was definitely fresher than Thiem and Thiem was physically gone in the third and fourth sets. Theim has himself admitted that he was not 100% physically

I dont understand why you you and Carol keep forgetting that Thiem also played on Thursday, you mention the 2.5 on 2 days and justify it doesnt make sense but it does make sense when you look at the 3 sets he played the day before. Its not 5 sets in 2 days, its 8 sets in 3 days that is the problem against an opponent who played only 3. No rocket science involved here I am afriad

And to add insult to injury, it is not Thiem or Nadal's fault for this, only the greedy organizers. We should all be celebrating that Kermode is exiting the sport for good finally
 
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Moxie

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The allegations may be agenda-driven. However, I guess Nadal's stamina can not be explained by science or medicine. How can his unparalleled stamina be explained?
Is it "unparalleled?" As far as yesterday, he was the rested player. Djokovic has won back-to-back 5-setters, and so has Federer. They're professional tennis players. And competitive as hell, to boot. I don't see Nadal as the only one in the game with great stamina. What are you gaming?
 

Moxie

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Again it makes logical sense because playing 8 sets over 3 days vs an opponent who played 3 during the same time is different than playing 6 sets over 2 days against an opponent who played 4 during the same time. Nadal was definitely fresher than Thiem and Thiem was physically gone in the third and fourth sets. Theim has himself admitted that he was not 100% physically

I dont understand why you you and Carol keep forgetting that Thiem also played on Thursday, you mention the 2.5 on 2 days and justify it doesnt make sense but it does make sense when you look at the 3 sets he played the day before. Its not 5 sets in 2 days, its 8 sets in 3 days that is the problem against an opponent who played only 3. No rocket science involved here I am afriad

And to add insult to injury, it is not Thiem or Nadal's fault for this, only the greedy organizers. We should all be celebrating that Kermode is exiting the sport for good finally
They act as if it's some slur on Nadal that Thiem was tired in the final. Logically, he would have been. Doesn't mean that Nadal didn't win by rights. It's just how things shook out. I'll take the win, as a Nadal fan, but I won't pretend that Thiem was 100% on Sunday. That's silly.
 

atttomole

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the problem here is that there is a level of exaggeration by those who aren't particularly Nadal fans. How many times have we seen tennis players play 3 sets on 2 consecutive days and then win a tournament on the 3rd day? It's happened quite a few times. Tennis players are used to this, they train to play 3 sets on consecutive days... it happens ALL the time on regular tournaments. If Thiem had gone 5 sets with Kachanov or Monfils and then played 2.5 sets fri, 2.5 sets sat, i would admit he must have had some exhaustion in finals. But Thiem blasted Monfils, beat Kachanov pretty easily.. then played 2.5 sets fri and sat, on quite cool conditions, with some breaks. Physically, i don't see how he would've been much affected by this. Someone here tells me i need to listen to Thiem, i did, actually. Thiem said he wasn't going to be tired in finals after he beat Djokovic. McEnroe said Thiem said he felt fresher this year than previous year, not sure where Mcenroe got this but he said it. So Thiem was feeling quite well physically before match and even if he lied, the facts are there for us to analyze. Again, a tennis player like Thiem is TRAINED to play 3 sets on a daily basis and he played 2.5 on two days... and two EASY routine matches before semis. The evidence for him being tired just doesn't hold up.

What i will say is that if anything, mentally he may have been a bit tired. I say mentally because even though physically 2.5 sets in cool condition is a cakewalk for someone like Thiem, mentally it must have been tough... to play #1, in windy conditions and so maybe this had some effect, mentally. As Thiem said after losing, fri/sat 'may' have left 'traces' in mind and body.

and the way i look at it, maybe he would've lost in straight sets if he HAD come in with a day's rest. He started off strong, maybe playing against Djoker the day before allowed him to start the finals on fire, he was quite hot. So you never know...
I am not sure if you believe what you are saying. Thiem played for 3 consecutive days, including a grueling semi final before facing the most physically gifted player the game has ever seen. You are trying to tell us that he was mentally tired, clearly glossing over the physical disadvantage that Thiem had. It would have been difficult enough if he had completed his semi on Friday.
 
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MikeOne

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Again it makes logical sense because playing 8 sets over 3 days vs an opponent who played 3 during the same time is different than playing 6 sets over 2 days against an opponent who played 4 during the same time. Nadal was definitely fresher than Thiem and Thiem was physically gone in the third and fourth sets. Theim has himself admitted that he was not 100% physically

I dont understand why you you and Carol keep forgetting that Thiem also played on Thursday, you mention the 2.5 on 2 days and justify it doesnt make sense but it does make sense when you look at the 3 sets he played the day before. Its not 5 sets in 2 days, its 8 sets in 3 days that is the problem against an opponent who played only 3. No rocket science involved here I am afriad

And to add insult to injury, it is not Thiem or Nadal's fault for this, only the greedy organizers. We should all be celebrating that Kermode is exiting the sport for good finally

he's a world pro! that is not a big deal for him. Nadal was much fresher than Thiem in 2018 Madrid as-well... Nadal won those 4 sets comfortably, Thiem had 6 tough sets. You say 8 sets, over 3 days.. what is that on avg? about 2.6 sets per day... He beat Kachanov 2,4,2! pretty easy stuff. Then he played 2.5 sets fri, 2.5 sat... there were some rain delays and it was unusually cool, which makes it much easier than when it's hot. Just analyze what i'm laying out here... think carefully. This is not that physically taxing; in fact, very similar to what he had to do in 2018 at Madrid. Playing 3 easy sets one day and then 2.5 sets on days 2 and 3 is pretty similar to 6 tough sets over two days... not much of a difference, you know it. That was a cakewalk vs Kachanov..

I'm not saying he was as fresh as Nadal but i'm seriously analyzing this in depth, i'm not just saying it cause i want to believe Thiem was 100%.

Was Stan tired in 3rd set when he lost 6-1 in 2017? Was Thiem tired in 3rd set when he lost it 6-2 in 2018? See the pattern?

Nadal was fresher, yes, but again, what thiem did wasn't that physically demanding, it's just that he played Nadal in finals. Thiem could've straight seated anyone else!
 

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Thiem may have lost in straight sets if he had a day's rest... maybe he wouldn't have started the match so well as he did, after having battled Djoker day before.

Thiem contradicted himself before and after match, before he said he wasn't going to be tired, then, wasn't so sure. I think he was more mentally tired than physically.... the thing is, i can even play 3 sets on 3 consecutive days and a guy like Thiem can't play 2.5 sets on consecutive days? It's totally illogical... Thiem trains to play 3 sets every day as this is what is sometimes required on the avg atp tournament, think about that. He had also breezed past his previous two opponents...

I think he may have been mentally tired after what it took mentally to beat Djoker.. but it is so illogical to me that a world class player cannot handle 2.5 sets on consecutive days, this is almost like a practice session! mentally, though, different story.

and maybe he would've lost in straights if he had played with a day's rest, maybe he would've started cold, allowed Nadal to jump on him and once Nadal does that, you're in for a straight set destruction.
you can play 5 sets and it still doesn't compare to what it takes to play 2 sets on pro tour. hey we are talking a guy playing 4 straight days vs a guy having complete rest before the final, and you still talk like it makes no difference? by your logic some players should be doomed anyway, as the result should all be based on your speculation.
 
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atttomole

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I just wanted to point out also that Thiem did not get a fair shot at Nadal due to no fault of his own and completely the greed of the tournament organizers. This is why by the way Kermode was ousted
I am curious. Was Kermode responsible for the bad scheduling at RG?
 

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They act as if it's some slur on Nadal that Thiem was tired in the final. Logically, he would have been. Doesn't mean that Nadal didn't win by rights. It's just how things shook out. I'll take the win, as a Nadal fan, but I won't pretend that Thiem was 100% on Sunday. That's silly.

do you really think that a world top 10 tennis player will be tired after 3 easy sets one day (2,4,2), 2.5 sets one day and 2.5 sets another day? The last two days included rain delays and were in unusually cool conditions too, big factors.

What world are we living in when we diminish the fitness of a world class tennis player like this, it's sad. I bought up Madrid 2018, where Thiem went 6 tough sets in 2 days and then beat Nadal on 3rd day. This was very similar to what happened this time around.. not exact, but similar.

I also bring up how the 3rd sets have gone in each of last 3 RG finals, 1,2,1... pattern anyone?

Thiem was fine... he himself said it before the match, repeatedly. After the match, he mentioned maybe he was wrong and maybe he was tired but how many times have we seen losers rationalize and look for excuses, after a loss? I trust more what he said before the match.

Again, this is just logical. Dominic Thiem is not a USTA 4.5 player... he's world class tennis pro... 3 easy sets, followed by 2.5 sets on two consecutive days is NOT going to tire him, it's absurd to even suggest it. I have no doubt Dominic Thiem would've probably straight stetted any other player or gone 5 sets and won. Nadal is Nadal, he will torture you and by 3rd, 4th sets, it takes it toll. Happened to Stan in 2017, happened to Thiem in 2018 and happened to Thiem again in 2019. Yes, nadal was fresher... but Thiem was fine, Nadal was the problem. Come one, just analyze how i break it down...
 

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do you really think that a world top 10 tennis player will be tired after 3 easy sets one day (2,4,2), 2.5 sets one day and 2.5 sets another day? The last two days included rain delays and were in unusually cool conditions too, big factors.
It build him over time, so yes he will be tired and will run out of steam. 2 hours was his limit which is what most players are used to when they play on the regular tour. The match was unfair to him
What world are we living in when we diminish the fitness of a world class tennis player like this, it's sad. I bought up Madrid 2018, where Thiem went 6 tough sets in 2 days and then beat Nadal on 3rd day. This was very similar to what happened this time around.. not exact, but similar.

It was not because here the opponent of Thiem played 3 sets over 3 days compared to 4 in 2 days in Madrid. Not comparable at all

Thiem was fine... he himself said it before the match, repeatedly. After the match, he mentioned maybe he was wrong and maybe he was tired but how many times have we seen losers rationalize and look for excuses, after a loss? I trust more what he said before the match.

I personally trust what he said after the match because he would know that he was physically drained during the match which he would not have an idea of before the match had played. I believe him completely while you think he is lying.

Again, this is just logical. Dominic Thiem is not a USTA 4.5 player... he's world class tennis pro... 3 easy sets, followed by 2.5 sets on two consecutive days is NOT going to tire him, it's absurd to even suggest it. I have no doubt Dominic Thiem would've probably straight stetted any other player or gone 5 sets and won... Nadal is Nadal... he will torture you and by 3rd, 4th sets, it takes it toll. Happened to Stan in 2017, happened to Thiem in 2018 and happened to Thiem again. Yes, nadal was fresher... but Thiem was perfectly fine, Nadal was the problem. This is not common sense for anyone who knows how fit these guys are.
The fact is he was unfairly treated due to no fault of his own. Nadal benefited from the schedule, this is not up for debate
 
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Moxie

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do you really think that a world top 10 tennis player will be tired after 3 easy sets one day (2,4,2), 2.5 sets one day and 2.5 sets another day? The last two days included rain delays and were in unusually cool conditions too, big factors.

What world are we living in when we diminish the fitness of a world class tennis player like this, it's sad. I bought up Madrid 2018, where Thiem went 6 tough sets in 2 days and then beat Nadal on 3rd day. This was very similar to what happened this time around.. not exact, but similar.

I also bring up how the 3rd sets have gone in each of last 3 RG finals, 1,2,1... pattern anyone?

Thiem was fine... he himself said it before the match, repeatedly. After the match, he mentioned maybe he was wrong and maybe he was tired but how many times have we seen losers rationalize and look for excuses, after a loss? I trust more what he said before the match.

Again, this is just logical. Dominic Thiem is not a USTA 4.5 player... he's world class tennis pro... 3 easy sets, followed by 2.5 sets on two consecutive days is NOT going to tire him, it's absurd to even suggest it. I have no doubt Dominic Thiem would've probably straight stetted any other player or gone 5 sets and won. Nadal is Nadal, he will torture you and by 3rd, 4th sets, it takes it toll. Happened to Stan in 2017, happened to Thiem in 2018 and happened to Thiem again in 2019. Yes, nadal was fresher... but Thiem was fine, Nadal was the problem. Come one, just analyze how i break it down...
I think Thiem is one of the fittest players on tour. I said I expected if anyone could come back on Sunday and compete, it was Thiem. Also, he's 25. But I think what he was up against was rough. I won't compare it to Bo3 competition. Look, I'm on the same side as you: I fully agree that what Nadal brings is hard to put up with for a long time. And perhaps even rested, Thiem would have folded after a couple of hard-fought sets. But I won't pretend that they were equal parts rested going into the final. That's all I'm saying.
 
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