2019 Men's Wimbledon Championships

Status
Not open for further replies.

DarthFed

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,724
Reactions
3,477
Points
113
Nick didn't play well, not the level of energy he used to have which is pretty clear to see. He is an adrenalin player, found him pretty subdued in the big moments (ie both tiebreakers)….was not a good match from Nick, even then there was nothing in it except the two tiebreaks.

I thought his movement was pretty labored. How much of that is due to an injury (he had an MTO in 1st match) and how much is due to lack of training, poor diet, drinking late at a bar the night before a big match, etc. is anyone's guess. But in the current game if you don't move well, all the talent in the world will only mean so much. It was definitely the worst I've seen him move in a match he's taking seriously.
 

Carol

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
9,225
Reactions
1,833
Points
113
Kyrgios has played very serious but of course always needs to do some kind of show to distract his opponent, but the problem was that it didn't work today because his opponent was very focus and cold (and not like in Acapulco) besides to be very superior player. The poor Aussie is the worse loser of the Tour, sad but true
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reactions
14,997
Points
113
I thought his movement was pretty labored. How much of that is due to an injury (he had an MTO in 1st match) and how much is due to lack of training, poor diet, drinking late at a bar the night before a big match, etc. is anyone's guess. But in the current game if you don't move well, all the talent in the world will only mean so much. It was definitely the worst I've seen him move in a match he's taking seriously.
He did play a 5-setter 2 days ago, and admitted to being sore the next day. On the one hand, you want to say fair enough, but he is only 24, the last 2 sets were quick, and we know he doesn't work on his fitness, so it's on him.
 

Ricardo

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,674
Reactions
646
Points
113
Well in the end a strong win from Rafa. Lost a close one their first time here. Won a close one here today. Plenty of drama. But some seriously good tennis from both men. Good match. I'm just glad Kyrgios didn't go away. Didn't disappear.

I'm not sure it's even worth saying, "Hopefully he can keep this up." Because he almost certainly can't. He'll go back to being so so until he gets another big match up. Until he puts in the work day in and day out on the practice court and gets a stable coach, which is more important just for the fact that he'd let someone speak into his life, he'll continue to struggle on tour.

cut the crap short, he lives for big matches and big players. One is almost certain there would be high level from Nick when he faces someone great, then he would play accordingly against lesser ones. Thomson would have beat him if nick wasn’t fighting for the chance to play Nadal.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reactions
14,997
Points
113
Kyrgios has played very serious but of course always needs to do some kind of show to distract his opponent, but the problem was that it didn't work today because his opponent was very focus and cold (and not like in Acapulco) besides to be very superior player. The poor Aussie is the worse loser of the Tour, sad but true
They were both having a bit of a go, if we're being honest. Nick creating distractions, and Rafa playing slow to piss him off. But I don't think Nick is a poor loser. That would imply that he gave a shit, which sadly doesn't seem to be the case. If it bothered him more when he lost, he'd try harder to improve his game and fitness. And maybe get a coach.
 

Ricardo

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,674
Reactions
646
Points
113
"Could have?" That's generous of you. I know what Nick did wrong in the TBs. Point is, he did. I don't know that he seemed to be fading all along the match, but, as I said, he sure seemed done by the TB in the 4th. His fitness isn't great, and that's on him. Sure Nadal was relieved when it was over...as were his fans. It was a tense match. Nick is a tricky player, but not anywhere near Nadal's level, either of talent, commitment or focus. We've seen Nick bring his best to the big matches, but doesn't mean he's always going to do it.
His talent nowhere near? That’s not what the tennis greats said, it’s what you think as a couch player with no qualies. If someone who doesn’t nearly train as hard, is committed only for few matches can go so close with the proven greats, his talent has got to be up there...or it simply wouldn’t add up.

How many stupid posters are on this board?
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reactions
14,997
Points
113
His talent nowhere near? That’s not what the tennis greats said, it’s what you think as a couch player with no qualies. If someone who doesn’t nearly train as hard, is committed only for big matches can go so close with the proven greats, his talent has got to be up there...or it simply wouldn’t add up.

How many stupid posters are on this board?
While some here, who know tennis well, think Kyrgios is over-rated, and will give you solid tennis reasons as to why, I DO happen to think he's very talented. But he does have flaws, and not all of them are failure to make the most of his gifts. Yes, I think Nadal is far more talented than Nick. Besides his great serve, and an actually pretty reliable tweener, which of his shots would you say were better than Nadal's? And then there's Nadal's mental toughness, which I do believe is on the list of talents.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reactions
14,997
Points
113
His mental makeup is clear as. You give him someone average, you get average...or worse.
The problem is that it's often worse. It's normal for players to save their best stuff for when they really need it, but for Nick, he can seem to be too bored with a match that doesn't seem to be a monumental challenge or a marquee match. @tenisplayrla08 was not wrong to say that we all wish he could bring some level of energy and commitment to his "lesser" matches. Nor that most of us have stopped hoping for it.
 

Ricardo

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,674
Reactions
646
Points
113
While some here, who know tennis well, think Kyrgios is over-rated, and will give you solid tennis reasons as to why, I DO happen to think he's very talented. But he does have flaws, and not all of them are failure to make the most of his gifts. Yes, I think Nadal is far more talented than Nick. Besides his great serve, and an actually pretty reliable tweener, which of his shots would you say were better than Nadal's? And then there's Nadal's mental toughness, which I do believe is on the list of talents.
If Nadal has everything else in spades, focus, commitment, mental toughness and experience etc, then Nick probably has more natural talent just to make up for the gap. While i don’t take others words for granted, I believe people who studies his game, have played against him, practiced with him know better about his ability, without a doubt, than people here who saw him on tv, at best.
 

Ricardo

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,674
Reactions
646
Points
113
The problem is that it's often worse. It's normal for players to save their best stuff for when they really need it, but for Nick, he can seem to be too bored with a match that doesn't seem to be a monumental challenge or a marquee match. @tenisplayrla08 was not wrong to say that we all wish he could bring some level of energy and commitment to his "lesser" matches. Nor that most of us have stopped hoping for it.
Actually it’s the opposite, most are not big match players as they can get nervous and let the occasion get to them. It’s a rare quality to be able to show high level stuff when you need it, which is a big part of champions quality.
 

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
The guy is talented. What s point!!

He's really nothing special.

People need to really stop overrating flashiness and start grasping what actually constitutes a good tennis player. Sorry if this sounds condescending but I'll rant anyway:

Kyrgios' rally shots are mediocre. He has ZERO ability to construct points properly. This is modern tennis. it's not shotmaking, it's not ability to finish points. Of course these are important, but not nearly important as the ability to actually take control of a point, place the ball where you want to, construct a point, move an opponent around, etc... then the winner or the forced error will come naturally.

Kyrgios has a great, hard to read serve, and flashes of brilliance. His main strategy to hit winners is to actually be unpredictable and fire them out of nowhere, rather than properly construct a point and put himself in a position to finish the point. At least Thiem can do that on clay, where he often finds himself in a great position to run around his backhand and hit his inside out forehand. How often can Nick do that?

His rally forehand is wristy and spinny, and really struggles to penetrate the court with it. His backhand is too flat and inconsistent, and he has zero ability to change direction and go up the line. So, I honestly ask, what does Nick do really well, and how is it any different to so many pros once you move past his personality and the flashes of brilliance? A very good serve and what? The occasional inside out forehand? OK, what else?

Yes, Nick can be better if he puts in more work and change his attitude, but maybe there's a reason he relies on gimmicks so much? Maybe he's just...not good enough? At one point, these "lazy" players relish their laziness to justify their failures. Nick himself mentioned in the press conference how he doesn't work hard enough. Of course he'd be better if he did, but he's not good enough to be anything special, sorry. He likes to argue and blame umpires, opponents (though Nadal definitely was annoying with how slow he was on Nick's own serve) and get mad at everything else for a reason...

Here are Nick Kyrgios’ last 16 slam results: R3 R4 R1 R3 R3 R4 R3 R2 R2 R1 R1 R4 R3 R3 R1 R2

That is HORRENDOUSLY bad. And no amount of laziness or lack of hard work justifies results this poor. Who the hell is this guy losing to so early? Certainly not players of Nadal's caliber every time. So if he's so talented, shouldn't he beat these tomato cans he's facing early? People really get blinded by certain biases when it comes to assessing talent. Hate to break it to everyone, but Nishikori is a significantly more talented player. His groundstrokes are better off both wings, he actually can set up points, take the ball early, etc... We need to stop equating talent with occasional shotmaking and aesthetically pleasing winners.

The other thing is, with these supposed underachievers, their underachieving becomes their biggest crutch and biggest reputation-booster, ironically enough. Because they struggle to put together good performances consistently, the few times they're able to do it stand out so much that everyone goes into "well, we know what he's CAPABLE of" mode. Except, how capable are you really if you can do it literally a handful of times in your entire career? Nick didn't play well vs. Nadal in 2014. He played out of his mind. He redlined his game. Every good tennis player is capable of having those days, and when they do, they'll be unplayable. And how many times has Nick come close to replicating that? So how capable is he, really? And at what point do we accept that what he's capable of is at best, "good" tennis, and on most days, mediocre?

Also, people need to understand what constitutes a bad match-up for Nadal. The only aspect of Nick's game that is a bad match-up for Nadal on grass is his serve. His return is meh, his ground game isn't dominant enough, he makes too many errors, etc... Yes it was a competitive match, don't get me wrong. Largely due to Nick's serve and overall good play. But it was just as competitive when Nick played the best match of his career 5 years ago, and that tells you everything really.

So yeah, color me shocked that Nick played well and didn't win. It's almost like the 18 time Grand Slam champion has a say in the outcome of the match too.

So yeah, tennis is actually a simple game most of the time. When there's a big gap between two players, if the better player plays well, he typically wins.
 
Last edited:

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
If Nadal has everything else in spades, focus, commitment, mental toughness and experience etc, then Nick probably has more natural talent just to make up for the gap. While i don’t take others words for granted, I believe people who studies his game, have played against him, practiced with him know better about his ability, without a doubt, than people here who saw him on tv, at best.

How the fuck is Nick more talented? Like seriously... Based on what? I'm very curious.
 

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
So if Nadal survives, he will face Tsonga. That should be good too.

A potentially far more dangerous match IMO as Tsonga actually has a big game, unlike Nick, who serves big and can hit the occasional big forehand (big difference).
 
  • Like
Reactions: imjimmy

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
Sad that this is people's ideas of a court that bounces low. It's sitting up like crazy.

The courts seem to be playing slow but I don't think they're high bouncing compared to a few years ago, no (slow and high bouncing aren't necessarily the same). I hope this changes in the second week though :)
 

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
Nick ain't going to be around much longer at this point. Dude can't move well anymore and that backhand is unplayable

His backhand is legitimately bushleague and I'm utterly shocked people don't factor that in when talking about how supposedly talented he is.
 

DarthFed

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,724
Reactions
3,477
Points
113
The courts seem to be playing slow but I don't think they're high bouncing compared to a few years ago, no (slow and high bouncing aren't necessarily the same). I hope this changes in the second week though :)

Of course you do. It's your twat's only chance. The tournament has been kind enough to him over the years already.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.