2019 Men’s Wimbledon Final: Novak Djokovic vs. Roger Federer

[calitennis127]

You need to get out more. The approach was average. Not a choke as some have called it. Djokovic executed under pressure but it's nothing to make an "out of this world" highlight reel. Not even yours... which is largely a bootleg copy of the 2007 Paris Masters.

I love how you as a message board poster can talk about a shot like that as though it was simply Djokovic hitting a shot off a machine in practice. To be down match point with the crowd 95% rooting for your opponent in the 5th set of a Wimbledon final and to execute that shot is supremely impressive.

Was it, technically speaking, the hardest shot Djokovic has ever hit? No. But I have also seen Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer miss plenty of passing shots too. They have hit them wide, long, and into the net. Djokovic very easily could have missed that shot there. Then what?

It's funny to see you, of all people, saying this. You used to join the chorus of lectures directed at me about how when discussing talent, I did not take into account shotmaking under pressure or winning the big points confidently. Then Djokovic hits a shot like this and you act like all he did was hit a routine forehand in warm-ups.

Unbelievable.

Like Moxie, you cover your extreme bias with temperate language. You are just royally pissed that Federer lost and you are trying to diminish how well Djokovic played.

 

[calitennis127]

Zverev has more masters titles (3-2) and shares a YEC triumph with Nalbandian. Think about it. So, if you're looking at hard career accomplishments in terms of heavyweight silverware, then Sascha has already surpassed him, at the age of 22. The book on Zverev is only at the prologue stage.

I used to diss Nalbandian a bit when Cali was around, but I actually loved him as a player. The guy was talented... just not anywhere close to Cali's measurement.

Yes he was. He was by far the most dominant baseline shotmaker in the modern game. He had two A+ forehands. No one else has had that except Djokovic at times.

Djokovic has obviously been the better defender but he could not dictate points off both wings like Nalbandian could.

 

[Federberg]

Zverev has more masters titles (3-2) and shares a YEC triumph with Nalbandian. Think about it. So, if you're looking at hard career accomplishments in terms of heavyweight silverware, then Sascha has already surpassed him, at the age of 22. The book on Zverev is only at the prologue stage.

I used to diss Nalbandian a bit when Cali was around, but I actually loved him as a player. The guy was talented... just not anywhere close to Cali's measurement.

I was a big fan of Nalby as well. Loved his smooth strokes. But something about Cali's hyperbole almost made me a hater!

And yes... it's extraordinary that a meh... player like Zverev has already surpassed Nalby's achievements. Amazing!!

 

[britbox]

no, was a very difficult shot, Djokovic would make that maybe 5/10 times! or less. #1 the approach shot wasn't just a drop lob or a setup, Federer struck it with purpose and made Djokovic run for it... #2 Federer closed the passing shot down the line and closed the net quick, trying to cut off angle. Federer has length and oft oftentimes stretches for volley winners. Djokovic was forced to hit 1 shot and 1 shot only, a cross court fh, perfectly placed and on the line. To not acknowledge the difficult of this shot, under the circumstance, is sad.

Now could've Federer struck that approach shot harder and placed it deeper or gone to Djokovic's bh? Well, let's scratch going to novak's bh as bh is Novak's best shot. Federer went to the right side... But let's talk about Federer hitting that harder and better placed, guess what, higher risk. You imagine if Federer would've missed that approach by trying to hit it perfectly? Oh dear, the backlash in this forum. Funny though, i wouldn't be at all shocked if darth, you and others would actually have said 'Fed could've played it safer and forced djokovic to hit a tough passing shot under pressure' lol... wouldn't have shocked me at all.

This is nitpicking, expecting perfection under pressure. Federer hit a solid shot that forced Djokovic to hit one shot, a difficult shot. If you all think that shot was easy, especially against a lengthy athletic good volleyer like Fed, in that situation, then i have to say, it's you all that don't know tennis very well.

I'm not nitpicking - I'd expect Djokovic to make that shot more than 50% of the time. If you guys want to put that pass on your all time great highlight reels then that sits fine with me. It just won't be on mine. He executed under pressure... cool. I've seen way more impressive highlight passes on the run from the likes of Nadal (for instance) where he's threaded the needle both DTL and cross court.

Heck, I might just go and watch this again.

 

[Federberg]

I'm not nitpicking - I'd expect Djokovic to make that shot more than 50% of the time. If you guys want to put that pass on your all time great highlight reels then that sits fine with me. It just won't be on mine. He executed under pressure... cool. I've seen way more impressive highlight passes on the run from the likes of Nadal (for instance) where he's threaded the needle both DTL and cross court.

Heck, I might just go and watch this again.

Or Roger's DTL backhand in the 4th set tie break in Wimbledon 08...

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Overall, I would grade the match at a B. The fifth set dynamics kept it from being a C. Federer was overall consistent, but his performance at critical junctures was poor. Djokovic was overall playing his B/C game and managed to find moments to suddenly get out of tight situations, but overall Djokovic was largely unimpressive this match aside from the moments he decided to join the match. It was as if he suddenly realized what the score was and what it meant if he didn’t at least put more effort into it.

 

[britbox]

I love how you as a message board poster can talk about a shot like that as though it was simply Djokovic hitting a shot off a machine in practice. To be down match point with the crowd 95% rooting for your opponent in the 5th set of a Wimbledon final and to execute that shot is supremely impressive.

Was it, technically speaking, the hardest shot Djokovic has ever hit? No. But I have also seen Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer miss plenty of passing shots too. They have hit them wide, long, and into the net. Djokovic very easily could have missed that shot there. Then what?

It's funny to see you, of all people, saying this. You used to join the chorus of lectures directed at me about how when discussing talent, I did not take into account shotmaking under pressure or winning the big points confidently. Then Djokovic hits a shot like this and you act like all he did was hit a routine forehand in warm-ups.

Unbelievable.

Like Moxie, you cover your extreme bias with temperate language. You are just royally pissed that Federer lost and you are trying to diminish how well Djokovic played.

Lol. We're talking the highest level of tennis. The fact I expect the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic to make those types of passes isn't a diss on them, it's actually a compliment.

Yet, by the sound of it, you'd have me believe this was one of the greatest shots in tennis history.

 

[Carol]

Carol are you loving the sport , playing by yourself? Or only fan of Nadal? This was a great final I many aspects, and I’m saying that not only because Novak won.
You know I wished Nadal on the other side, that would be easier for Novak. You remember my post?
Let’s hope they will meet each other in NY SF or Final, I’m fine with both scenarios, you?
Kind regards

Obviously you are the one who are fan only of Novak. I would have liked Nadal on the other side too because he played better and had more difficult opponents than Novak during the whole tournament so I don’t think it would have been easier for this one. This match was a Deja Vu of the semis 2018, just a fine line made the difference of the winner, but this time after 5 hours playing the age made the difference not just physically but also mentally and more when the opponent was ‘a well oiled machine’ physically and mentally too

 

[calitennis127]

Lol. We're talking the highest level of tennis. The fact I expect the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic to make those types of passes isn't a diss on them, it's actually a compliment.

Yet, by the sound of it, you'd have me believe this was one of the greatest shots in tennis history.

I said it was out-of-this-world based on CIRCUMSTANCE. I would say it was an above-average shot in general, but to go for it and hit it in that moment is what was so impressive about it.

Holding a match point in a Wimbledon final is not like you and Kieran playing ping pong at an Irish pub and saying "fine shot, mate. How's da wether in Dooblin?"

 

[MikeOne]

the only reason that approach shot is being shamed is because Djokovic came up with such a great passing shot, under immense pressure.

Federer had a few options - 1. hit to Novak's bh, probably not wise. 2. Hit a decent approach shot but not take too much risk, make Djokovic come up with a tough shot, down match point 3. Go for more, place it better. This comes with more risk

Federer played it somewhat safe but was it the wrong choice? Is it just because Djokovic came up big, what if Djokovic would've missed? that was a 50/50 shot under pressure, against Federer at the net. Had Federer risked it and missed, his fans would be shaming him even more and even questioning why Federer didn't play it safer. Remember, Federer missed some shots under pressure in this match, some shots he badly missed when going for too much. He made a calculation - don't miss, hit it well, make Novak hit the tough shot. If novak would've missed or not placed it on the line and given Federer opportunity to hit volley winner into open court, Fed would've looked like a genius. Djokovic came up with the goods... now it all looked like wrong play, of course!

 

[calitennis127]

the only reason that approach shot is being shamed is because Djokovic came up with such a great passing shot, under immense pressure.

Federer had a few options - 1. hit to Novak's bh, probably not wise. 2. Hit a decent approach shot but not take too much risk, make Djokovic come up with a tough shot, down match point 3. Go for more, place it better. This comes with more risk

Federer played it somewhat safe but what it the wrong choice? Is it just because Djokovic came up big, what if Djokovic would've missed? that was a 50/50 shot under pressure, against Federer at the net. Had Federer risked it and missed, his fans would be shaming him even more and even questioning why Federer didn't play it safer. Remember, Federer missed some shots under pressure in this match, some shots he badly missed when going for too much. He made a calculation - don't miss, hit it well, make Novak hit the tough shot. If novak would've missed or not placed it on the line and given Federer opportunity to hit volley winner into open court, Fed would've looked like a genius. Djokovic came up with the goods... now it all looked like wrong play, of course!

the only reason that approach shot is being shamed is because Djokovic came up with such a great passing shot, under immense pressure.

Federer had a few options - 1. hit to Novak's bh, probably not wise. 2. Hit a decent approach shot but not take too much risk, make Djokovic come up with a tough shot, down match point 3. Go for more, place it better. This comes with more risk

Federer played it somewhat safe but what it the wrong choice? Is it just because Djokovic came up big, what if Djokovic would've missed? that was a 50/50 shot under pressure, against Federer at the net. Had Federer risked it and missed, his fans would be shaming him even more and even questioning why Federer didn't play it safer. Remember, Federer missed some shots under pressure in this match, some shots he badly missed when going for too much. He made a calculation - don't miss, hit it well, make Novak hit the tough shot. If novak would've missed or not placed it on the line and given Federer opportunity to hit volley winner into open court, Fed would've looked like a genius. Djokovic came up with the goods... now it all looked like wrong play, of course!

Agreed. My main criticism of Federer on the match points is that he did not hit a bigger serve on either of them. The approach shot could have been better but it also could have been worse. He could have missed it going for too much. And Djokovic very easily could have missed the pass.

 

[Bonaca]

Obviously you are the one who are fan only of Novak. I would have liked Nadal on the other side too because he played better and had more difficult opponents than Novak during the whole tournament so I don’t think it would have been easier for this one. This match was a Deja Vu of the semis 2018, just a fine line made the difference of the winner, but this time after 5 hours playing the age made the difference not just physically but also mentally and more when the opponent was ‘a well oiled machine’ physically and mentally too

Very wrong, I pointed out that I’m also fan of Federer. Novak of course is my absolute favourite. I have some other players I like.
I don’t hate Bull, how could I hate someone I personally don’t know? But he is the player I mostly unlike, because of many reasons, an important one is his behaviour on court a lesser reason his playing style.
The difference in viewing at both matches you mentioned is, in both Bull and Maestro could not really play much better, but Novak was a good step away of his best. Many of the forum members pointed that out.
Don’t know why you wrote you want bull in the final because he had the tougher draw? You mean he deserved it more than who? Federer deserved the win, he was clearly better than your guy.
There is no better oiled machine out there than bull, come on you made a joke or?
Novak has more problems with an in form Federer than an in form Nadal at Wimbledon.

 

[britbox]

I said it was out-of-this-world based on CIRCUMSTANCE. I would say it was an above-average shot in general, but to go for it and hit it in that moment is what was so impressive about it.

Holding a match point in a Wimbledon final is not like you and Kieran playing ping pong at an Irish pub and saying "fine shot, mate. How's da wether in Dooblin?"

What other shot is he going to "go for"? Federer's positioning had basically closed the DTL... so he either goes cross court or tries an unlikely lob. Hardly mammoth bravery. Yeah, he executed perfectly under pressure. There wasn't huge pace behind the approach. He didn't have to do a lot to get a play on the ball. He hit a good shot, made it under pressure.

Like I said, made the big points when it mattered. Something I acknowledged from the get-go.

This isn't you shooting a few friendly hoops in the tennis club parking lot, hollering "Way to go Larry! Best Threepointer of all time Homie, whoop whoop"...It's professional tennis at the highest level.

 

[MikeOne]

one under appreciated shot is the forced error. There were many rallies where Djoker was in command but didn't quite hit the winner, his lack of winners is deceiving. He had control of many of those baseline rallies. Federer's offense was mainly off his serve, following up good serves with aggressive shots; on neutral rallies, djoker seemed to have upper hand most of the match. Agassi was a master at this too, he would be dictating rallies all the time but not hit many winners, he would force errors from opponents who were having a hard time staying in the rally.

 

[Front242]

Roger lost the tiebreakers today's match.. simply stated.

Rafa was up 4-2 in the 5 set AO 2012 with a chance to go up 5-2.. that's a choke in my opinion.
Rafa was up 3-1 in the 5 set while serving, that's another choke in my opinion.

Again You Don't know what you are "PERFECTLY Well" talking about.

I'll rewrite so you can try reading it again. Properly. He missed one damn point in the AO 2012 at 4-2 and instead of 40-15 the score was 30-30. If Nadal is amazing as half the Nadal camp proclaim then why is 30-30 such a big deal? Surely he's capable of winning another 2 points and even 40-15 isn't a done deal as we saw yesterday with Roger and his 2 match points.

In the AO 2017 Federer completely went off the mark in sets 2 and 4 and rather than moan about your perceived choke (which it most definitely was but by Federer and not Nadal) you should realize it should never have even gone to a 5th set. 3-1 is just 1 measly break of serve. It's not like he was 5-1 up and Federer played out of his mind to win that set. That was no choke.

 

[Carol]

Very wrong, I pointed out that I’m also fan of Federer. Novak of course is my absolute favourite. I have some other players I like.
I don’t hate Bull, how could I hate someone I personally don’t know? But he is the player I mostly unlike, because of many reasons, an important one is his behaviour on court a lesser reason his playing style.
The difference in viewing at both matches you mentioned is, in both Bull and Maestro could not really play much better, but Novak was a good step away of his best. Many of the forum members pointed that out.
Don’t know why you wrote you want bull in the final because he had the tougher draw? You mean he deserved it more than who? Federer deserved the win, he was clearly better than your guy.
There is no better oiled machine out there than bull, come on you made a joke or?
Novak has more problems with an in form Federer than an in form Nadal at Wimbledon.

That is exactly what I think about Novak, he is the player I mostly unlike because many reason too, his behavior in the court and out of the court, he is a very weird character. Besides Nadal I like Murray, Federer too but not his fans (ugh) and some others players more than Novak without any doubt. And about that final Federer played better than Novak but sometimes the luck goes more in one side than the other like it happens several times and it happened in Wimbledon 2018. And yes, Nadal had the worst draw but he made it to look easier because the way he played to all of them. And come on! Novak "well oiled machine" is very known and superior to any payer of the tour but mentally even more

 

[Bonaca]

That is exactly what I think about Novak, he is the player I mostly unlike because many reason too, his behavior in the court and out of the court, he is a very weird character. Besides Nadal I like Murray, Federer too but not his fans (ugh) and some others players more than Novak without any doubt. And about that final Federer played better than Novak but sometimes the luck goes more in one side than the other like it happens several times and it happened in Wimbledon 2018. And yes, Nadal had the worst draw but he made it to look easier because the way he played to all of them. And come on! Novak "well oiled machine" is very known and superior to any payer of the tour but mentally even more

Fair enough , thoughts are free.
Luck never win a match. I can’t say Novak was the better player in RG against Bull when he lost, he wasn’t. He came a few times near but that’s not enough. So wasn’t Nadal last year or at the ao 12 for example.
Novak is the better player overall, he proves it in all statistical parts except slam count. But also here he will. What is your opinion about that? Would you like Bull to play against Novak in NY and Melbourne?

 

[Bonaca]

That is exactly what I think about Novak, he is the player I mostly unlike because many reason too, his behavior in the court and out of the court, he is a very weird character. Besides Nadal I like Murray, Federer too but not his fans (ugh) and some others players more than Novak without any doubt. And about that final Federer played better than Novak but sometimes the luck goes more in one side than the other like it happens several times and it happened in Wimbledon 2018. And yes, Nadal had the worst draw but he made it to look easier because the way he played to all of them. And come on! Novak "well oiled machine" is very known and superior to any payer of the tour but mentally even more

I forgot the one point:
Novak is a weird character? What is Bull called then? His tics on court and off court, you surely know about Nadal neurotics and his problems when he was young? Or not?
This pathological character and his natural strengths (I hope is all by nature) helped him to become the biggest machine/robot in tennis history. No one ever trained more than him, he is the hardest worker in tennis. He could be proud of that, no one will steal this record from him!

 

[DarthFed]

Approach shot was fucking trash. No amount of idiotic posts from Cali or Mike changes that. Novak could've had a picnic before hitting that for an easy winner. He cut it closer than he needed to making it look heroic. If Nole missed that I'd be thankful that he missed a very routine passing shot on match point. He's making that 9 times of 10 at least. Wide open court and all day to hit. Very few guys in the top 100 don't pass Roger there.

 

[Bonaca]

That is exactly what I think about Novak, he is the player I mostly unlike because many reason too, his behavior in the court and out of the court, he is a very weird character. Besides Nadal I like Murray, Federer too but not his fans (ugh) and some others players more than Novak without any doubt. And about that final Federer played better than Novak but sometimes the luck goes more in one side than the other like it happens several times and it happened in Wimbledon 2018. And yes, Nadal had the worst draw but he made it to look easier because the way he played to all of them. And come on! Novak "well oiled machine" is very known and superior to any payer of the tour but mentally even more

I forgot another point (the last one):
Bulls focus on the game and training is absolutely unreal, could also said pathological. Point of view I know.
What I want to say is look at the success of Federer and Novak in tennis and also against Bull, and all that while having a live beside tennis and more important with a wife and children.
Can bull top this performance? No, he will go down in the same moment his training volume or focus drop. Even with it he couldn’t beat Novak h2h.
Sorry I went a bit sideline.