2019 Men’s Wimbledon Final: Novak Djokovic vs. Roger Federer

[Federberg]

I have a simpler explanation for why Djokovic is better in crucial moments, it is not mental scars for Fed or mental weakness, it's their types of games. Djokovic is the cleaner ball striker who makes less UFEs and takes less risks, Federer is the streakier ball striker and one who takes the most risks. In tiebreakers, you expect Federer to be more shaky, hit some great winners (he hit a couple of exceptional winners in breakers) but also miss more. Federer's riskier, less tight game will be prone to more errors in these pressure moments but sometimes pays off. The key, again, is the serve, Federer has to serve really well in the breakers, this is where i think he missed the mark...

sounds plausible...

 

[britbox]

Federer played excellent tennis, even in those tiebreakers, he didn't exactly choke or played horrible, he just didn't play his best. There is a difference. Federer fans expect Federer to play perfectly in crucial moments, anything less, it's horrible.

I have a simpler explanation for why Djokovic is better in crucial moments, it is not mental scars for Fed or mental weakness, it's their types of games. Djokovic is the cleaner ball striker who makes less UFEs and takes less risks, Federer is the streakier ball striker and one who takes the most risks. In tiebreakers, you expect Federer to be more shaky, hit some great winners (he hit a couple of exceptional winners in breakers) but also miss more. Federer's riskier, less tight game will be prone for more errors but sometimes pays off... The key for Federer is the serve, he can't rely on his ground game to be tighter than Djokovic's in these critical moments, especially with the tension and nerves at play. 9/10 times Federer will be more shaky in these moments and under that type of tension or pressure, it makes sense that it's more difficult for Federer to play clean tennis than Djokovic. The, again, is the serve, Federer has to serve really well in the breakers, this is where i think he missed the mark...

Yeah, I'd subscribe to that too, but I'd say it's a combo. Djoker wasn't playing percentage tennis at the USO when he hit that screamer... I think old scars factor in too, and that's one of them. There was a gap between Federer's win over Nadal at Basel, followed by subsequent triumphs. Federer thought the break helped with a mental reset. I'd suggest that Federer has the mental edge on Nadal right now in tight matches.

All players get tight to a degree... If I remember rightly, the break point Federer converted on Djokovic was an almost identical cross-court pass to the one where he got passed himself on match point.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I am so confused about people taking Djokovic to task for being pushed by a 38 year old Roger. It isn’t like Federer woke up and forgot how to play tennis. His serve was clicking for the most part yesterday, and Djokovic’s return of serve was not most of the match which is a recipe for a long match. The only area where I have noticed Roger has consistently slipped in his tennis is coming up with the goods during critical junctures during matches. He is also prone to more unforced errors the longer a match lasts.

 

[DarthFed]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle of what you/Darth and Mike are saying. I would not call this a "choke" in the sense that Federer simply gifted away the match points. But I also would say that Federer could have been better on match points.

It isn't in the middle. Mike is being ridiculous on those. Even Nole's first return wasn't hard to put back in play, Roger was sloppy with the footwork. It was a 2nd serve, did he think it wasn't coming back with some depth?

2nd one was an atrocious approach off of a very safe and ineffective first serve. Anyone seeing that differently is off their rocker.

 

[MikeOne]

Yeah, I'd subscribe to that too, but I'd say it's a combo. Djoker wasn't playing percentage tennis at the USO when he hit that screamer... I think old scars factor in too, and that's one of them. There was a gap between Federer's win over Nadal at Basel, followed by subsequent triumphs. Federer thought the break helped with a mental reset. I'd suggest that Federer has the mental edge on Nadal right now in tight matches.

All players get tight to a degree... If I remember rightly, the break point Federer converted on Djokovic was an almost identical cross-court pass to the one where he got passed himself on match point.

Djokovic is arguably the best baseliner of all time, his comibitaieon of defense, movement, ability to take ball early, be offensive and limit UFEs is remarkable. Hi bh is outrageous, that down the line he hit in final breaker sums it up.

It is a tall order too ask Federer to play errorless baseline tennis against Djokovic, especially when nerves are at play. The player with the less tight groundstrokes and higher risk game will be more vulnerable in tight situations. In this department, Djokovic has the advantage every time in crucial moments. What Federer needed to do and it was extremely important was serve better. A few aces here and there, unreturnable serves or serves that Djokovic couldn't return well, is all he needed. He will 8/10 times be at a disadvantage and make more errors vs Djokovic off the ground, the serve is where Federer can get the upper hand. Federer couldn't serve his best in breakers, this was the key... the rest was totally normal, IMO.

 

[Federberg]

It isn't in the middle. Mike is being ridiculous on those. Even Nole's first return wasn't hard to put back in play, Roger was sloppy with the footwork. It was a 2nd serve, did he think it wasn't coming back with some depth?

2nd one was an atrocious approach off of a very safe and ineffective first serve. Anyone seeing that differently is off their rocker.

haven't watched it as you know, so I have nothing in this fight. But if his footwork was sloppy then that could well be down to tightness...

 

[mrzz]

think old scars factor in too, and that's one of them.

For me the great miss-calculation that Federer did was on the first match point second serve. I was screaming for him to take high risk on that serve or even go for an ace. It would be better to DF than to give Djokovic the confidence of a connected good ROS (or even a "the return" re-encarnation).

 

[Federberg]

For me the great miss-calculation that Federer did was on the first match point second serve. I was screaming for him to take high risk on that serve or even go for an ace. It would be better to DF than to give Djokovic the confidence of a connected good ROS (or even a "the return" re-encarnation).

I seem to recall him trying something like that at the USO... didn't work so well...

 

[MikeOne]

It isn't in the middle. Mike is being ridiculous on those. Even Nole's first return wasn't hard to put back in play, Roger was sloppy with the footwork. It was a 2nd serve, did he think it wasn't coming back with some depth?

2nd one was an atrocious approach off of a very safe and ineffective first serve. Anyone seeing that differently is off their rocker.

no, sloppy footwork was because djokovic placed it deep and to roger's feet. Roger also tried to run around his bh... the approach shot was far from horrendous, it could've been better but Djokovic came up with an INCREDIBLE passing shot, under immense pressure. Federer made a calculation that if he hit a safer approach shot (not a sitting duck nor a screaming winner) that he had a good shot at winning the point by forcing Djokovic to hit an incredible passing shot down match point. You are whining like baby because Djokovic actually came up with that incredible shot, had he missed it and you would prob be saying 'How smart of Federer to come in, force novak to hit a tough passing shot, instead of staying back and letting novak dominate'

 

[britbox]

For me the great miss-calculation that Federer did was on the first match point second serve. I was screaming for him to take high risk on that serve or even go for an ace. It would be better to DF than to give Djokovic the confidence of a connected good ROS (or even a "the return" re-encarnation).

I'm trying to imagine the uproar on here if he'd double-faulted.

 

[MikeOne]

I'm trying to imagine the uproar on here if he'd double-faulted.

or if Federer would've gone for a higher risk 'perfectly placed, 95mph' approach shot and missed it...

That passing shot was incredible, no matter what anyone says! under enormous pressure, to put it on the line! no credit is given here..

 

[mrzz]

I seem to recall him trying something like that at the USO... didn't work so well...

But that is exactly the point. At USO he served safe at 40-15 and got "the return" back. That is exactly what did not work so well then and now. And we ended up with an almost repetition of that script. Oddly enough Djokovic played the 40-30 point with much more confidence than Federer. It was precisely that that I wanted him to avoid.

 

[calitennis127]

Federer played excellent tennis, even in those tiebreakers, he didn't exactly choke or played horrible, he just didn't play his best. There is a difference. Federer fans expect Federer to play perfectly in crucial moments, anything less, it's horrible.

I have a simpler explanation for why Djokovic is better in crucial moments, it is not mental scars for Fed or mental weakness, it's their types of games. Djokovic is the cleaner ball striker who makes less UFEs and takes less risks, Federer is the streakier ball striker and one who takes the most risks. In tiebreakers, you expect Federer to be more shaky, hit some great winners (he hit a couple of exceptional winners in breakers) but also miss more. Federer's riskier, less tight game will be prone to more errors in these pressure moments but sometimes pays off. The key, again, is the serve, Federer has to serve really well in the breakers, this is where i think he missed the mark...

You are still omitting the key point that Federer has a one-handed backhand. That is the main reason that he has to take more risks. Both he and his opponents know the one-hander won't hold up in long rallies.

That's part of the reason I always hyped Nalbandian. He could do off both wings what Federer can do off the forehand.

 

[calitennis127]

I am so confused about people taking Djokovic to task for being pushed by a 38 year old Roger. It isn’t like Federer woke up and forgot how to play tennis. His serve was clicking for the most part yesterday, and Djokovic’s return of serve was not most of the match which is a recipe for a long match. The only area where I have noticed Roger has consistently slipped in his tennis is coming up with the goods during critical junctures during matches. He is also prone to more unforced errors the longer a match lasts.

It's a predictable excuse from Darth, given that he thinks Federer in his 20's was tennis perfection who could only lose if he "played horrible." What Darth won't acknowledge is how lucky Federer was that Nalbandian (and to a lesser extent Safin) was MIA from 2003-2008 because if he had regularly been in the semis and finals of Slams there is no way Federer would have won so many Slams before age 27/28.

It's balancing out now and Darth can't stand it.

 

[britbox]

or if Federer would've gone for a higher risk 'perfectly placed, 95mph' approach shot and missed it...

That passing shot was incredible, no matter what anyone says! under enormous pressure, to put it on the line! no credit is given here..

The approach was a bit vanilla... but as I say, the passing shot was very similar to the one Fed made in the same circumstances when he got the break (from memory, will have to watch again to confirm). You've still got to make the shot though. By the way, I didn't classify the approach as choke, just a pretty average shot. I'd expect both defending players to make the pass more often than not. Neither was anything out of this world IMO.

 

[calitennis127]

The approach was a bit vanilla... but as I say, the passing shot was very similar to the one Fed made in the same circumstances when he got the break (from memory, will have to watch again to confirm). You've still got to make the shot though. By the way, I didn't classify the approach as choke, just a pretty average shot. I'd expect both defending players to make the pass more often than not. Neither was anything out of this world IMO.

That pass by Djokovic was out-of-this-world given the circumstance.

 

[britbox]

That pass by Djokovic was out-of-this-world given the circumstance.

You need to get out more. The approach was average. Not a choke as some have called it. Djokovic executed under pressure but it's nothing to make an "out of this world" highlight reel. Not even yours... which is largely a bootleg copy of the 2007 Paris Masters.

 

[Federberg]

You need to get out more. The approach was average. Not a choke as some have called it. Djokovic executed under pressure but it's nothing to make an "out of this world" highlight reel. Not even yours... which is largely a bootleg copy of the 2007 Paris Masters.

Lol! Paris 2007..... it's funny when you think about it Zverev is going down a Nalbandian like path in terms of achievement right now. Will there be some nutter at some point who starts beating the drum about his talent too?

 

[MikeOne]

You need to get out more. The approach was average. Not a choke as some have called it. Djokovic executed under pressure but it's nothing to make an "out of this world" highlight reel. Not even yours... which is largely a bootleg copy of the 2007 Paris Masters.

no, was a very difficult shot, Djokovic would make that maybe 5/10 times! or less. #1 the approach shot wasn't just a drop lob or a setup, Federer struck it with purpose and made Djokovic run for it... #2 Federer closed the passing shot down the line and closed the net quick, trying to cut off angle. Federer has length and oft oftentimes stretches for volley winners. Djokovic was forced to hit 1 shot and 1 shot only, a cross court fh, perfectly placed and on the line. To not acknowledge the difficult of this shot, under the circumstance, is sad.

Now could've Federer struck that approach shot harder and placed it deeper or gone to Djokovic's bh? Well, let's scratch going to novak's bh as bh is Novak's best shot. Federer went to the right side... But let's talk about Federer hitting that harder and better placed, guess what, higher risk. You imagine if Federer would've missed that approach by trying to hit it perfectly? Oh dear, the backlash in this forum. Funny though, i wouldn't be at all shocked if darth, you and others would actually have said 'Fed could've played it safer and forced djokovic to hit a tough passing shot under pressure' lol... wouldn't have shocked me at all.

This is nitpicking, expecting perfection under pressure. Federer hit a solid shot that forced Djokovic to hit one shot, a difficult shot. If you all think that shot was easy, especially against a lengthy athletic good volleyer like Fed, in that situation, then i have to say, it's you all that don't know tennis very well.

 

[britbox]

Lol! Paris 2007..... it's funny when you think about it Zverev is going down a Nalbandian like path in terms of achievement right now. Will there be some nutter at some point who starts beating the drum about his talent too?

Zverev has more masters titles (3-2) and shares a YEC triumph with Nalbandian. Think about it. So, if you're looking at hard career accomplishments in terms of heavyweight silverware, then Sascha has already surpassed him, at the age of 22. The book on Zverev is only at the prologue stage.

I used to diss Nalbandian a bit when Cali was around, but I actually loved him as a player. The guy was talented... just not anywhere close to Cali's measurement.