2018 Wimbledon men’s SF: Djokovic v Nadal

[DarthFed]

I'm only quoting a LOT of journalists on the "fountain of youth" vis-a-vis Roger. (The LA Times, Esquire, Times Free Press, and numerous others...you can just google it. I won't even bother looking for the videos of the number of times it was said on air.)

As to Nadal, your claims that he never gets tired are pretty far out of date. He was visibly flat in the AO '17 final, and you'll remember I complained that he had one day less rest after a 5-set SF. You just repeat that hackneyed old line because it suits your agenda. They're older, and they get more tired. And sore. You can say that Rafa's style is to put in more yards, but he's still 5 years younger, and has 300+ fewer matches on his body. Of course he is likely still a bit fresher in the body than Roger.

So, if I seem to make an implication about Roger, it's just to combat your and Darth's endless ones about Rafa. A taste of your own medicine. What's hilarious is that you feel it's so ironic that Nadal fans would point the finger back at you. You're so convinced by the unfounded allegations you've been spewing for so long that you can't even see the double-standard of your own claims.

How was he visibly flat in the AO match? It was a brilliant 5 setter, both playing out of this world tennis, only a few points separating them. It thrilled millions.

Does that look familiar? That's your spiel on Wimbledon 08 when Fed fans complain about his poor performance. Maybe Fed was flat from having such a terrible season and not being able to train as he had in the past...

 

[Moxie]

This is a Nadal fan myth because there of course has to be some reason to justify losing to Roger at a slam after all these years. I mean it couldn't possibly be that Roger is simply a much better player on fast hard courts now could it?! Ever since that AO court was speeded up it's advantage Roger over Rafa and Novak and this is not a stamina thing. There is no double standard thing, Roger has never outlasted any opponent by running down every damn ball in a godawful, ugly game of cat and mouse. Any time he's had long matches he's pretty much been poor the following match and either barely scraped through or lost badly. A bit different from old Rafa methinks in that regard.

Btw, the only flat in that AO 2017 final was he was flat out outplayed and it should have been over in 3 sets only for Roger's inexplicable mid match lapses. The rest of their 2017 matches proved that point too.

And regarding the fountain of youth comments by various sites and journalists, sure I saw loads of them, doesn't make it any less retarded when I read it again here. Guess they must have missed all the ugly deciding set losses that never should have happened.

We all watched that match together, on Live Chat, and lots of people found Nadal a bit flat. And Roger wasn't poor in that long match. Remember that Rafa was up a break in the 5th, so it's not like the surface just completely favored Roger. You can say that Rafa was out-played and whine about Roger blowing chances, (I wouldn't say that was totally wrong,) but let's call it what it was. Roger was the fresher in the late part of the 5th.

And yes, there is a double-standard. This is a petulant response, ("retarded?" Good comeback.) and not exactly debating the point. So many reliable sources called it a "Fountain of Youth." Now, I think it's a rhetorical flourish, for the most part. However, it is not just about someone leaping around like a bunny. It's about all of the times that you folks have said that time off is a flag. You've said that coming back so strong after a fallow period is a flag. That long breaks are "silent bans." You really don't get to have it both ways. If Rafa had come back after a 7-months lay-off and no Majors for 4 and a half years, you'd have burnt the internet down with your outrage and accusations. Just because you believe that it's Roger's "talent" that makes it different, doesn't make it so. That's incredibly naive, coming from those that believe that doping happens at the highest level of tennis. Either you believe it happens, or you don't. And if you believe it happens, it's possible that Roger's fountain of youth isn't just a renewed attitude and improved backhand. To say that you're sure that Rafa does, and you're equally sure that Roger doesn't is not just fannish, it's risible.

 

[Moxie]

How was he visibly flat in the AO match? It was a brilliant 5 setter, both playing out of this world tennis, only a few points separating them. It thrilled millions.

Does that look familiar? That's your spiel on Wimbledon 08 when Fed fans complain about his poor performance. Maybe Fed was flat from having such a terrible season and not being able to train as he had in the past...

As I said in the above, I thought we watched that in the Live Chat together. I'm not the only one that thought Nadal was flat and looked tired. But at least it was understandable from his previous match and one less day of rest. It's not like Wimbledon, where we were asked to interpolate across months that it was really still his mono, inability to train, and not that Nadal had actually just superseded him, since it was coming, even from previous year's final and the FO prior.

 

[DarthFed]

As I said in the above, I thought we watched that in the Live Chat together. I'm not the only one that thought Nadal was flat and looked tired. But at least it was understandable from his previous match and one less day of rest. It's not like Wimbledon, where we were asked to interpolate across months that it was really still his mono, inability to train, and not that Nadal had actually just superseded him, since it was coming, even from previous year's final and the FO prior.

We watched it in the live chat and you were probably the only Nadal fan on it. It was you, BB, FB, Shawnbm at times and me. Not too many others until near the very end. Maybe you had some fellow total homers talking how flat he was. He definitely wasn't flat in the 5th, Roger ripped the match away from him for a change.

And still the common bullshit about Rafa "being due" in 2008 after 2007. The reason many gave him a good chance going into that final is that Roger was abominable all season and everyone knew Rafa would be in his head to some degree throughout that match. And yes it took plenty of Roger's shortcomings throughout that match to lose. He was up and down at best and somewhat pathetic for two sets. You want to talk about "looking flat and tired" it was Fed for most of that match.

 

[Moxie]

We watched it in the live chat and you were probably the only Nadal fan on it. It was you, BB, FB, Shawnbm at times and me. Not too many others until near the very end. Maybe you had some fellow total homers talking how flat he was. He definitely wasn't flat in the 5th, Roger ripped the match away from him for a change.

And still the common bullshit about Rafa "being due" in 2008 after 2007. The reason many gave him a good chance going into that final is that Roger was abominable all season and everyone knew Rafa would be in his head to some degree throughout that match. And yes it took plenty of Roger's shortcomings throughout that match to lose. He was up and down at best and somewhat pathetic for two sets. You want to talk about "looking flat and tired" it was Fed for most of that match.

You tell this from your own perspective. I didn't say Rafa was "due" to win Wimbledon in '08, but he was getting into Roger's game there. You want to call W '08 and AO '17 a wash? I could live with that. It's astonishing that you remember who was on the live chat, then.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

We all watched that match together, on Live Chat, and lots of people found Nadal a bit flat. And Roger wasn't poor in that long match. Remember that Rafa was up a break in the 5th, so it's not like the surface just completely favored Roger. You can say that Rafa was out-played and whine about Roger blowing chances, (I wouldn't say that was totally wrong,) but let's call it what it was. Roger was the fresher in the late part of the 5th.

And yes, there is a double-standard. This is a petulant response, ("retarded?" Good comeback.) and not exactly debating the point. So many reliable sources called it a "Fountain of Youth." Now, I think it's a rhetorical flourish, for the most part. However, it is not just about someone leaping around like a bunny. It's about all of the times that you folks have said that time off is a flag. You've said that coming back so strong after a fallow period is a flag. That long breaks are "silent bans." You really don't get to have it both ways. If Rafa had come back after a 7-months lay-off and no Majors for 4 and a half years, you'd have burnt the internet down with your outrage and accusations. Just because you believe that it's Roger's "talent" that makes it different, doesn't make it so. That's incredibly naive, coming from those that believe that doping happens at the highest level of tennis. Either you believe it happens, or you don't. And if you believe it happens, it's possible that Roger's fountain of youth isn't just a renewed attitude and improved backhand. To say that you're sure that Rafa does, and you're equally sure that Roger doesn't is not just fannish, it's risible.

I believe Roger's break came after ATP removed the "silent ban" business.

 

[Ricardo]

J

We all watched that match together, on Live Chat, and lots of people found Nadal a bit flat. And Roger wasn't poor in that long match. Remember that Rafa was up a break in the 5th, so it's not like the surface just completely favored Roger. You can say that Rafa was out-played and whine about Roger blowing chances, (I wouldn't say that was totally wrong,) but let's call it what it was. Roger was the fresher in the late part of the 5th.

And yes, there is a double-standard. This is a petulant response, ("retarded?" Good comeback.) and not exactly debating the point. So many reliable sources called it a "Fountain of Youth." Now, I think it's a rhetorical flourish, for the most part. However, it is not just about someone leaping around like a bunny. It's about all of the times that you folks have said that time off is a flag. You've said that coming back so strong after a fallow period is a flag. That long breaks are "silent bans." You really don't get to have it both ways. If Rafa had come back after a 7-months lay-off and no Majors for 4 and a half years, you'd have burnt the internet down with your outrage and accusations. Just because you believe that it's Roger's "talent" that makes it different, doesn't make it so. That's incredibly naive, coming from those that believe that doping happens at the highest level of tennis. Either you believe it happens, or you don't. And if you believe it happens, it's possible that Roger's fountain of youth isn't just a renewed attitude and improved backhand. To say that you're sure that Rafa does, and you're equally sure that Roger doesn't is not just fannish, it's risible.

just because you don’t think it’s rogers talent also doesn’t make it so.

 

[Front242]

As I said in the above, I thought we watched that in the Live Chat together. I'm not the only one that thought Nadal was flat and looked tired. But at least it was understandable from his previous match and one less day of rest. It's not like Wimbledon, where we were asked to interpolate across months that it was really still his mono, inability to train, and not that Nadal had actually just superseded him, since it was coming, even from previous year's final and the FO prior.

Like I said previously, no Nadal fans were expecting him to lose to Roger even if he played a 15 hour match in the semi so you felt the need to come up with some excuse since he lost. How convenient. Bet he'd have been labelled a warrior if he won the final against Kevin Anderson after a 15 hour semi though.

 

[Front242]

We all watched that match together, on Live Chat, and lots of people found Nadal a bit flat. And Roger wasn't poor in that long match. Remember that Rafa was up a break in the 5th, so it's not like the surface just completely favored Roger. You can say that Rafa was out-played and whine about Roger blowing chances, (I wouldn't say that was totally wrong,) but let's call it what it was. Roger was the fresher in the late part of the 5th.

And yes, there is a double-standard. This is a petulant response, ("retarded?" Good comeback.) and not exactly debating the point. So many reliable sources called it a "Fountain of Youth." Now, I think it's a rhetorical flourish, for the most part. However, it is not just about someone leaping around like a bunny. It's about all of the times that you folks have said that time off is a flag. You've said that coming back so strong after a fallow period is a flag. That long breaks are "silent bans." You really don't get to have it both ways. If Rafa had come back after a 7-months lay-off and no Majors for 4 and a half years, you'd have burnt the internet down with your outrage and accusations. Just because you believe that it's Roger's "talent" that makes it different, doesn't make it so. That's incredibly naive, coming from those that believe that doping happens at the highest level of tennis. Either you believe it happens, or you don't. And if you believe it happens, it's possible that Roger's fountain of youth isn't just a renewed attitude and improved backhand. To say that you're sure that Rafa does, and you're equally sure that Roger doesn't is not just fannish, it's risible.

He had knee surgery...

We all saw him fall flat on his face out of nowhere against Raonic at Wimbledon so something was clearly not right with his knee. Nadal has never had any surgery ever, just dodgy treatments such as PCP and I'm not gonna even bother posting about the performance enhancing effects that has. So at least one of them had surgery which clearly wasn't a silent ban. Not sure about the other though.

Also, I never ever once said I'm sure Roger isn't doping, I said there are no obvious signs such as running around like a maniac all the time and never getting tired and never suffering any signs of fatigue after a long match or 2 beforehand.

 

[DarthFed]

I believe Roger's break came after ATP removed the "silent ban" business.

When did they remove the silent ban business? Anyways if one of the top guys ever failed a drug test I'm a million % sure we wouldn't hear about it from the ATP.

 

[Front242]

When did they remove the silent ban business? Anyways if one of the top guys ever failed a drug test I'm a million % sure we wouldn't hear about it from the ATP.

Exactly. Tennis.com didn't even mention the story about Serena's missed test the month before Wimbledon. They make too much money out of these people to expose them and the massive losses if they did would totally crush the sport. Sharadopa's case was different as she admitted it herself to get a reduced sentence 'cos she was caught out. Serena on the other hand phones the WTA CEO to complain about being tested and that's the last the world hears of it lol.

 

[the AntiPusher]

He had knee surgery...

We all saw him fall flat on his face out of nowhere against Raonic at Wimbledon so something was clearly not right with his knee. Nadal has never had any surgery ever, just dodgy treatments such as PCP and I'm not gonna even bother posting about the performance enhancing effects that has. So at least one of them had surgery which clearly wasn't a silent ban. Not sure about the other though.

Also, I never ever once said I'm sure Roger isn't doping, I said there are no obvious signs such as running around like a maniac all the time and never getting tired and never suffering any signs of fatigue after a long match or 2 beforehand.

Very good point Moxie..I know BB says debate the post not the poster. In this instance , let me go away from that way of addressing Rafa injuries ..To the best of my knowledge he may have had something done when he had the abdominal strain ..but its a way that Front and some Fed fans are gonna use PEDs or some non tour approved procedure to discredit Rafa's grand slam total victories.. this is why I give Darth so much respect because he just dont LIKE Nadal period. I can respect that.

 

[Moxie]

Like I said previously, no Nadal fans were expecting him to lose to Roger even if he played a 15 hour match in the semi so you felt the need to come up with some excuse since he lost. How convenient. Bet he'd have been labelled a warrior if he won the final against Kevin Anderson after a 15 hour semi though.

My observation that he was flat and tired in that match came during the whole match, not after he lost it. You can look up the live chat transcript, or ask Darth.

 

[Front242]

Very good point Moxie..I know BB says debate the post not the poster. In this instance , let me go away from that way of addressing Rafa injuries ..To the best of my knowledge he may have had something done when he had the abdominal strain ..but its a way that Front and some Fed fans are gonna use PEDs or some non tour approved procedure to discredit Rafa's grand slam total victories.. this is why I give Darth so much respect because he just dont LIKE Nadal period. I can respect that.

Wait...what?! You think I like Nadal? Much like others here I can't stand the prick lol.

 

[Front242]

My observation that he was flat and tired in that match came during the whole match, not after he lost it. You can look up the live chat transcript, or ask Darth.

Anyone would look flat when they're getting their ass kicked by Roger Federer on a fast hard court.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Wait...what?! You think I like Nadal? Much like others here I can't stand the prick lol.

No..reread my post..my point is You will find some crap related to some substance enhanced drug to aid Rafa success .whereas Darth has more common sense or subscribe to such foolishness.

 

[DarthFed]

No..reread my post..my point is You will find some crap related to some substance enhanced drug to aid Rafa success .whereas Darth has more common sense or subscribe to such foolishness.

Hate to break it to you bro but I've long subscribed to it. I don't think he's always been on them but you know what I think of his 2012/early 2013 "injury". And yes I hate your boy

 

[DarthFed]

My observation that he was flat and tired in that match came during the whole match, not after he lost it. You can look up the live chat transcript, or ask Darth.

We generally agreed he looked somewhat flat the first set but he picked it up. He didn't look flat at all in the 5th set. Also, part of it may have been he was used to Roger's backhand being atrocious and having his boring pattern get sent back with interest was always bound to catch him off guard.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Hate to break it to you bro but I've long subscribed to it. I don't think he's always been on them but you know what I think of his 2012/early 2013 "injury". And yes I hate your boy

Damn..i was wrong ..my apologies Front..Darth's insight is just as mindless as yours

 

[DarthFed]

Damn..i was wrong ..my apologies Front..Darth's insight is just as mindless as yours

We shall see brotha. The day will come when your runt is exposed.