2018 AO Men's QF: Chung v Sandgren

[britbox]

I think you are confusing two points here. 1) he supports Trump 2) he follows alt-right/white supremecists on twitter and has deleted tweets that may relate to that (likely as he deleted them after the whole controvery). The second point is why the whole race thing is coming into play. Regarding point 1) what can I say, it's a real shame that the Americans voted for a complete douche, I get that Clinton was not a good choice too, but I find it really sad that the Americans elected that person.

What he said in his statement is already proven by your above remarks... you're trying to pigeon hole him (and actually the people he follows)... I mean Ben Shapiro is often considered alt-right... are you saying he's a white supremacist? Alt-right does not equal white supremacist.

 

[Ricardo]

No, but I find the whole principle that he's borderline white supremacist because he voted Trump, laughable.

That’s the way Democrats work, you must be some kind of ‘...cist’ If you don’t agree with them. They think they won the argument by throwing cheap labels around.

 

[Denis]

What he said in his statement is already proven by your above remarks... you're trying to pigeon hole him (and actually the people he follows)... I mean Ben Shapiro is often considered alt-right... are you saying he's a white supremacist? Alt-right does not equal white supremacist.

The distinction does not matter to me that much, one is worse that the other, but I find following either poor form.

What I find remarkable though is that he is playing the victim and you are treating him as a victim too. He follows those people, may have even said some really dodgy stuff on twitter even, people report on that and ask questions, and all of a sudden we should feel sorry for him? Give me a break. The guy likes to have an opinion, but not be criticized for it? Man up, and stand for your views.

 

[britbox]

The distinction does not matter to me that much, one is worse that the other, but I find following either poor form.
.

White supremacy and strong conservative values are totally different concepts... but if the difference doesn't matter to you, then I don't know what else to say... other than I'm not really surprised. It's the way of the world now unfortunately.

 

[mrzz]

The distinction does not matter to me that much, one is worse that the other, but I find following either poor form.

What I find remarkable though is that he is playing the victim and you are treating him as a victim too. He follows those people, may have even said some really dodgy stuff on twitter even, people report on that and ask questions, and all of a sudden we should feel sorry for him? Give me a break. The guy likes to have an opinion, but not be criticized for it? Man up, and stand for your views.

Denis, I agree with the last phrase, but... you have to admit that people blow things out of proportion -- and take words and phrases out of context. The guy wants to focus on tennis, than he did well deleting his tweets. The moral police would scrutinize everything he wrote, single out phrases out context and create a narrative, and a character. People here were already refering to him as "the white supremacist". It is not a fair game, so he does not have to play fair either.

 

[Denis]

White supremacy and strong conservative values are totally different concepts... but if the difference doesn't matter to you, then I don't know what else to say... other than I'm not really surprised. It's the way of the world now unfortunately.

Seems to me that you must be quite happy the world we are living in as everyone is voting in line with the above.

The difference does not matter to me in that I don't like either. You say they are 'totally different concepts'. That's interesting. Were/are politicians with 'strong conservative values' fighting for non-discrimination or have they generally been fishing in a bit of a different electorate pool?

Just take a look at how coalitions are formed in Europe. It's always the parties with 'strong conservative values' that are all too happy to form coalitions with white supremacists.

 

[Federberg]

Denis, I agree with the last phrase, but... you have to admit that people blow things out of proportion -- and take words and phrases out of context. The guy wants to focus on tennis, than he did well deleting his tweets. The moral police would scrutinize everything he wrote, single out phrases out context and create a narrative, and a character. People here were already refering to him as "the white supremacist". It is not a fair game, so he does not have to play fair either.

Live by social media, die by social media. If this had been discovered by someone hacking into his emails and discovering his support for alt right views, that would be one thing. But the dude put the stuff on twitter. It's the way the world is. He can try to redact his past social media history because his PR people have told him it will help his quest for sponsorship money, but let's not give him victim status. I think he really should man up and confront this stuff. I for one would respect him greatly if he did that

 

[mrzz]

Live by social media, die by social media. If this had been discovered by someone hacking into his emails and discovering his support for alt right views, that would be one thing. But the dude put the stuff on twitter. It's the way the world is. He can try to redact his past social media history because his PR people have told him it will help his quest for sponsorship money, but let's not give him victim status. I think he really should man up and confront this stuff. I for one would respect him greatly if he did that

Honestly my friend, fuck social media...

 

[Federberg]

Honestly my friend, fuck social media...

I agree. But this is the real world. This is what happens. You can try to rage against the media if you want, but it's futile. My advice? Keep your views to yourself if you ever want to be in a career in the public view. Or accept the consequences. Whining is pointless

 

[Denis]

Honestly my friend, fuck social media...

Didn't all the media report what he had to say afterwards. He got the podium to clarify his views. You and britbox should be happy. A new tennis star reeling in the sheep for the 'strong conservative values' movement. On top of that you get to vent against the fake news media, who are totally dishonest in tacking down an average American guy just trying to make a buck. It's great publicity for you guys. Playing the victim card and creating a new hero for the hard-working average American.

 

[britbox]

Didn't all the media report what he had to say afterwards. He got the podium to clarify his views. You and britbox should be happy. A new tennis star reeling in the sheep for the 'strong conservative values' movement. On top of that you get to vent against the fake news media, who are totally dishonest in tacking down an average American guy just trying to make a buck. It's great publicity for you guys. Playing the victim card and creating a new hero for the hard-working average American.

I'm just looking forward to his Youtube channel showing alt-right guys kicking the crap out of snowflake commies at Berkeley.

 

[mrzz]

Didn't all the media report what he had to say afterwards. He got the podium to clarify his views. You and britbox should be happy. A new tennis star reeling in the sheep for the 'strong conservative values' movement. On top of that you get to vent against the fake news media, who are totally dishonest in tacking down an average American guy just trying to make a buck. It's great publicity for you guys. Playing the victim card and creating a new hero for the hard-working average American.

I won't take the guy as a hero, don't worry. I give a rats' ass to conservative values. But I actually agree with what you wrote (in irony) about the fake news media -- only thing is that I don't think only CNN and the "liberal" media is fake news, their right wing rivals are just the same shit. Most of them are. It is a propaganda war, it has been like that for decades, if not centuries. Why not call them all out?

Anyway, that was not my point. What I always, routinely, repetitively and probably predictably complain about is the "moral police". That was my point all along.

 

[Denis]

I won't take the guy as a hero, don't worry. I give a rats' ass to conservative values. But I actually agree with what you wrote (in irony) about the fake news media -- only thing is that I don't think only CNN and the "liberal" media is fake news, their right wing rivals are just the same shit. Most of them are. It is a propaganda war, it has been like that for decades, if not centuries. Why not call them all out?

Anyway, that was not my point. What I always, routinely, repetitively and probably predictably complain about is the "moral police". That was my point all along.

Fully agree on what you say about media.

On the moral police thing: I really don't think harm was done to Sandgren. He was simply held accountable for his actions and I don't even think unfairly so. The Guardian gave him plenty of room to explain himself and they didn't even go into the detail of why he deleted those tweets. It was quite a balanced story actually from a left wing news outlet. I really don't understand the need to defend the guy.

 

[Federberg]

I won't take the guy as a hero, don't worry. I give a rats' ass to conservative values. But I actually agree with what you wrote (in irony) about the fake news media -- only thing is that I don't think only CNN and the "liberal" media is fake news, their right wing rivals are just the same shit. Most of them are. It is a propaganda war, it has been like that for decades, if not centuries. Why not call them all out?

Anyway, that was not my point. What I always, routinely, repetitively and probably predictably complain about is the "moral police". That was my point all along.

I have to take exception to this. I don't think CNN is perfect. I think they bend over backwards to try to be "balanced" which often - in my view - unbalances them - but the idea that right wing media is no worse? Are you seeing what Fox News is trying to do to the FBI and Justice Department right now? It's on another level..

 

[Denis]

I have to take exception to this. I don't think CNN is perfect. I think they bend over backwards to try to be "balanced" which often - in my view - unbalances them - but the idea that right wing media is no worse? Are you seeing what Fox News is trying to do to the FBI and Justice Department right now? It's on another level..

Actually good point, but let me be clear that I don't really believe in 'objective' reporting, just 'good quality' reporting in terms fact-checking, providing in depth analysis and providing multiple angles to a story. Thus I think that taken as a whole the Guardian or the Financial Times do a better job than the Daily Mail or the Sun.

 

[britbox]

I have to take exception to this. I don't think CNN is perfect. I think they bend over backwards to try to be "balanced" which often - in my view - unbalances them - but the idea that right wing media is no worse? Are you seeing what Fox News is trying to do to the FBI and Justice Department right now? It's on another level..

Lol, do me a favour Federberg. Harvard did an independent study on media bias (wrt Trump) and CNN topped the list as by far the most biased mainstream media outlet with 93% negative stories. Way more than any other outlet, including MSNBC I even mentioned it on one of the politics threads about a year ago... wtf happened to CNN... once a respected news outlet... the bias was ridiculous... CNN sold out it's position as a news reporting agency... now it's just an influencer like most of the others (left and right). I give it the same level of standing as RT. We know what it is... and just take everything with a pinch of salt.

 

[Federberg]

Lol, do me a favour Federberg. Harvard did an independent study on media bias (wrt Trump) and CNN topped the list as by far the most biased mainstream media outlet with 93% negative stories. Way more than any other outlet, including MSNBC I even mentioned it on one of the politics threads about a year ago... wtf happened to CNN... once a respected news outlet... the bias was ridiculous... CNN sold out it's position as a news reporting agency... now it's just an influencer like most of the others (left and right). I give it the same level of standing as RT. We know what it is... and just take everything with a pinch of salt.

You keep going on about the election, because you think you have a winning argument. Quite apart from how difficult it is to assess bias. I am talking about right now. Today. If you aren't willing to address the Fox News attack on the FBI and Justice Dept, it just makes your counter-argument evaporate into the air. Do you not see that?

 

[Denis]

CNN did 93% negative stories on Trump? Seems reasonable to me. What good stories are there? That he is getting older?

 

[britbox]

You keep going on about the election, because you think you have a winning argument. Quite apart from how difficult it is to assess bias. I am talking about right now. Today. If you aren't willing to address the Fox News attack on the FBI and Justice Dept, it just makes your counter-argument evaporate into the air. Do you not see that?

I'm well aware Fox News are biased. What's that got to do with CNN?

 

[Federberg]

I'm well aware Fox News are biased. What's that got to do with CNN?

Well for one thing, the Harvard study actually only states that 93% of the stories on Trump published by CNN are negative. That doesn't mean they're biased. For that to be the case either the stories are untrue, or they are intentionally not publishing more positive stories. That's one thing. But what Fox News are doing is flat out lying about the FBI and Justice Department. Something which is far more pernicious. I find your attempt to either wash over or equivocate quite disturbing. As one is a far more dangerous phenomenon than the other