2017 Australian Open Final: FEDAL XXXV

[Kieran]

Now and again me and the Dude send pm's to Carol and Front to give them the night off, and we pull a shift of heavy lifting. We're generous that way...

 

[El Dude]

I just re-watched the 5th set again (what can I say, it is good tennis) and my sense that Roger over-powered Rafa is both re-affirmed and slightly diminished. What seemed to happen the entire match is that Roger stuck to his attacking style and evened out his UFEs and then played an impeccable fifth set, gradually breaking through Rafa's defenses. Usually Rafa can just wear Roger down to the point where a combination of his amazingly timed shots and Roger's UFEs, he'll take the match. But Roger entered an amazing zone in that 5th set. He didn't get flustered, and he kept hammering away.

The 5th set very close. The momentum seemed to shift when Roger broke back to make it 3-3, and then held easily to go up 4-3. But Rafa was not out and dug deep. I think at one point when Rafa was serving in that 8th game (3-4), Roger was 1-for-10 on break opportunities. This wasn't because he was playing poorly, but because Rafa is so tough minded and clutch at digging deep when it mattered most.

But the difference this time, and I think the key to the match, is that Roger did not fold. He kept hammering away and even upped it a notch. It reminded me of sprinters who amazingly add an extra bit of velocity in that last stretch.

This is not to say that fatigue didn't impact Rafa, and that the 2010 version wouldn't have held stronger at the end. Maybe so. But as Darth put it, Roger had the edge from the beginning and then did his usual wobble, and Rafa won the 2nd and then 4th set. But for me there was a sense the entire match - even after the 2nd and 4th sets - that Roger was in the driver seat, that he would pull it out eventually. Losing that first game in the 5th set was a heart-break--for his fans, at least--but he stayed strong and pulled through. It really is, I think, his greatest victory, because he overcome his greatest weakness against his nemesis at the most crucial moment.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Here is Jon Wirthiem answering a question in Sports Illustrated.

Hi Jon, I've always thought your tennis coverage was fair and balanced. So I was wondering what you thought of Roger's consecutive medical timeouts (SF, F) in this year's Australian Open?
—Regards, Martin, Hong Kong

• Didn’t bother me, in large part because he was legitimately injured. He talked about his groin injury on Thursday night after the semis. There were reports that he was supposed to have had an open practice before the final and closed it. (This usually means: there’s an injury we don’t want to disclose to the world.) The medical timeouts exist for a reason. That Federer is hardly known as a rules bender—accumulated good will is a big theme here—further douses cynicism.

 

[Front242]

Just to add in the obvious but it's been ignored by and large in the last few days and that is, Roger's greatly improved backhand. This is what won him the match and not Nadal's supposed fatigue. Nadal himself said he was fine and he looked it, especially in the 5th set. If you're not tired in the final set then clearly fatigue is a non issue.

The backhand Roger hit at 4-3 break point in the 5th set was insane and totally caught Rafa by surprise and then the game was over. At 5-3 it wasn't looking good for Roger. Short ball gobbled up by Rafa at the net and some errors by Roger but he eventually composed himself and served better and got the job done. Rafa himself said Roger won by being super aggressive so if Nadal fans are thinking Rafa looked tired well it's obviously because he wasn't allowed to rally as much as usual as Roger was blasting winners when he wasn't stinking the place up.

The different balls and court speed suited first strike tennis more than rallying and Roger is one of the best first strike aggressive players on tour. The match was won by the aggressor which is the way tennis should be on faster courts.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yes Roger's backhand was successful.. I thought it really was a combination of Roger being playing very aggressively and taking some enormous risks. I can't speak for most of Rafa's fans but the most disappointing issue I had with the match is Rafa's inability to counter Roger's attitude of just going for it. This is a huge advantage that a Novak's fan wouldn't have to endure because he would've matched Roger's intensity, IMO. This is something that Rafa and Moya will learn from and build on.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Here is Jon Wirthiem answering a question in Sports Illustrated.

Hi Jon, I've always thought your tennis coverage was fair and balanced. So I was wondering what you thought of Roger's consecutive medical timeouts (SF, F) in this year's Australian Open?
—Regards, Martin, Hong Kong

• Didn’t bother me, in large part because he was legitimately injured. He talked about his groin injury on Thursday night after the semis. There were reports that he was supposed to have had an open practice before the final and closed it. (This usually means: there’s an injury we don’t want to disclose to the world.) The medical timeouts exist for a reason. That Federer is hardly known as a rules bender—accumulated good will is a big theme here—further douses cynicism.

Jon is and always been an overrated POS..

 

[rafanoy1992]

Yes Roger's backhand was successful.. I thought it really was a combination of Roger being playing very aggressively and taking some enormous risks. I can't speak for most of Rafa's fans but the most disappointing issue I had with the match is Rafa's inability to counter Roger's attitude of just going for it. This is a huge advantage that a Novak's fan wouldn't have to endure because he would've matched Roger's intensity, IMO. This is something that Rafa and Moya will learn from and build on.

I agree with you that analysis.

But on the other hand AP, I could see on why Nadal was tentative in some of those moments.

1.He is 30 years old. Once you get to a certain age, it is hard to maintain that intensity throughout the match. He actually did well considering the fact that throughout the whole match he was hitting it short.

2. He was a little bit fatigue - Yes, I know Federer fans will crucify me for using this example. However, you could tell that he was a bit tired towards at the end of the 5th set so that's why he could not really go for it (except for break points) in his service game. He tried to be aggressive but he was not able to because he was a little of bit fatigued.

3. Federer made him nervous most of the match. It is basically self-explanatory, you guys have touch on this so there is no more extra analysis. By the way, this is the main reason on why Federer finally beat Nadal in a 5 set match.

 

[mightyjeditribble]

Nadal was fatigued from his five-setter two days before

Fed had a leg injury that was at least made worse by his five-setter three days before.

They're not the youngest anymore. That's part of the game ...

However, a few years ago it probably wouldn't have matter whether was a bit tired or not, he could still get the ball to Fed's backhand and do the damage.


I think Fed's larger racquet has had something to do with his backhand being less vulnerable. There were times before (with the old racquet) when Fed was able to hit Nadal off the court, but it had to be a fast hardcourt (eg WTF), and he really had to be focussed and on throughout the match, and his backhand really had to click. That level was hard to maintain through best-of-five.

I remember Fed saying that, with the larger sweet spot, his backhand was one of the shots that he definitely felt had improved. While it's important not to read too much into one match, we have seen some evidence of the truth of that statement.

 

[DarthFed]

Aside from Wimbledon Rafa is rarely ever aggressive vs. Roger. He can just rely on breaking the backhand down and frustrating Roger over time by making him play one more ball all the time, that and his huge edge in big points is why he's dominated the matchup. This time he couldn't break down the backhand and though Roger still had a lot of "Hyde" in him, particularly sets 2, 4, and the start of set 5, he stepped up and played incredible the last 5 games instead of going away after being broken. I watched the match again and I'd say Rafa was only flat the first set and a half. Roger broke himself a couple times in the 2nd set and that breathed life into Nadal and he was fine after that. The 5th set was the best tennis he played all match long, he served something ridiculous like 90% and he barely missed a ball. Roger just went nuts and stole the match from him.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yes Roger's backhand was successful.. I thought it really was a combination of Roger being playing very aggressively and taking some enormous risks. I can't speak for most of Rafa's fans but the most disappointing issue I had with the match is Rafa's inability to counter Roger's attitude of just going for it. This is a huge advantage that a Novak's fan wouldn't have to endure because he would've matched Roger's intensity, IMO. This is something that Rafa and Moya will learn from and build on.

I agree with you that analysis.

But on the other hand AP, I could see on why Nadal was tentative in some of those moments.

1.He is 30 years old. Once you get to a certain age, it is hard to maintain that intensity throughout the match. He actually did well considering the fact that throughout the whole match he was hitting it short.

2. He was a little bit fatigue - Yes, I know Federer fans will crucify me for using this example. However, you could tell that he was a bit tired towards at the end of the 5th set so that's why he could not really go for it (except for break points) in his service game. He tried to be aggressive but he was not able to because he was a little of bit fatigued.

3. Federer made him nervous most of the match. It is basically self-explanatory, you guys have touch on this so there is no more extra analysis. By the way, this is the main reason on why Federer finally beat Nadal in a 5 set match.

you are absolutely correct,Roger made the game of very uncomfortable for Rafa..as well as Rafa was playing , I have only seen Novak's have the innate ability to BOSS Rafa around for 5 sets..I truly believe that was one of Roger's greatest victories..

 

[the AntiPusher]

Aside from Wimbledon Rafa is rarely ever aggressive vs. Roger. He can just rely on breaking the backhand down and frustrating Roger over time by making him play one more ball all the time, that and his huge edge in big points is why he's dominated the matchup. This time he couldn't break down the backhand and though Roger still had a lot of "Hyde" in him, particularly sets 2, 4, and the start of set 5, he stepped up and played incredible the last 5 games instead of going away after being broken. I watched the match again and I'd say Rafa was only flat the first set and a half. Roger broke himself a couple times in the 2nd set and that breathed life into Nadal and he was fine after that. The 5th set was the best tennis he played all match long, he served something ridiculous like 90% and he barely missed a ball. Roger just went nuts and stole the match from him.

By the way..I not comfortable coming on this board eating "crow about Fedal matches but it can't always be one sided.

I totally agree , the 5 set was the best set of tennis Roger played in a long time. If you noticed , there was no quivering in Roger's decorum. Hell, if he wasn't facing Nadal, I would have been a Fed fan.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The main difference in the backhand of Roger, this time is that he went for more drive shots and
winners than typical of him. Usually, he does a slice about 2/3rd of the time.

Remember what happened to JMDP when he came back from wrist injury, but not fully healed.
He could only place slice on the backhand and everybody knew it and so everybody took advantage of it.

It is the same story with Roger's backhand (but to a lesser extent and without injury) when he plays Rafa. Most of the time he keeps slicing and sooner or later coughs up an error. This time he said to heck with it. I am going for it. May be it will be an UFE or may be it will be an winner (or at the very least it will be a difficult shot for Rafa). That is why Rafa was surprised often by Roger's backhand shots.

p.s. Unlike some Fed fans, I would admit that Rafa was bit tired in the final. However, I strongly feel that was not the deciding factor of this match by any means. The deciding factor was the aggression of Roger.

 

[Kieran]

The main difference in the backhand of Roger, this time is that he went for more drive shots and
winners than typical of him. Usually, he does a slice about 2/3rd of the time.

Remember what happened to JMDP when he came back from wrist injury, but not fully healed.
He could only place slice on the backhand and everybody knew it and so everybody took advantage of it.

It is the same story with Roger's backhand (but to a lesser extent and without injury) when he plays Rafa. Most of the time he keeps slicing and sooner or later coughs up an error. This time he said to heck with it. I am going for it. May be it will be an UFE or may be it will be an winner (or at the very least it will be a difficult shot for Rafa). That is why Rafa was surprised often by Roger's backhand shots.

p.s. Unlike some Fed fans, I would admit that Rafa was bit tired in the final. However, I strongly feel that was not the deciding factor of this match by any means. The deciding factor was the aggression of Roger.

I can do business with this. We can easily agree to disagree about what Rafa would have been like if he hadn't been so tired. But I appreciate your candour here, and I accept your faith in federer because of it. You believe that despite rafas fatigue, federer was too aggressive. I disagree. I think that's cool...

 

[the AntiPusher]

The main difference in the backhand of Roger, this time is that he went for more drive shots and
winners than typical of him. Usually, he does a slice about 2/3rd of the time.

Remember what happened to JMDP when he came back from wrist injury, but not fully healed.
He could only place slice on the backhand and everybody knew it and so everybody took advantage of it.

It is the same story with Roger's backhand (but to a lesser extent and without injury) when he plays Rafa. Most of the time he keeps slicing and sooner or later coughs up an error. This time he said to heck with it. I am going for it. May be it will be an UFE or may be it will be an winner (or at the very least it will be a difficult shot for Rafa). That is why Rafa was surprised often by Roger's backhand shots.

p.s. Unlike some Fed fans, I would admit that Rafa was bit tired in the final. However, I strongly feel that was not the deciding factor of this match by any means. The deciding factor was the aggression of Roger.

Roger won the match...AO #2 would've looked a lot better on Rafa's resume but it is what it is. Now..the pressure really mounts on Rafa because RG is most certainly his next best or "only" opportunity to win another slam..
It will be very interesting to see how Novak and Andy reacts
If Roger continues to take big risks during his tennis matches ..

 

[atttomole]

I think with Novak things are different because Novak returns serve very well, which may be more problematic for Roger. Roger has to serve well, to be able to play his offensive game. I think he can beat Murray with his usual aggressive tennis.

 

[atttomole]

Further, we all know that Federer's backhand worked well in part because of the surface, so it's important to remember that it will not always be as efficient on other surfaces, including fast surfaces. However, as a Fed fan I hope what we saw of his backhand at the AO is not an aberration.

 

[DarthFed]

Aside from Wimbledon Rafa is rarely ever aggressive vs. Roger. He can just rely on breaking the backhand down and frustrating Roger over time by making him play one more ball all the time, that and his huge edge in big points is why he's dominated the matchup. This time he couldn't break down the backhand and though Roger still had a lot of "Hyde" in him, particularly sets 2, 4, and the start of set 5, he stepped up and played incredible the last 5 games instead of going away after being broken. I watched the match again and I'd say Rafa was only flat the first set and a half. Roger broke himself a couple times in the 2nd set and that breathed life into Nadal and he was fine after that. The 5th set was the best tennis he played all match long, he served something ridiculous like 90% and he barely missed a ball. Roger just went nuts and stole the match from him.

By the way..I not comfortable coming on this board eating "crow about Fedal matches but it can't always be one sided.

I totally agree , the 5 set was the best set of tennis Roger played in a long time. If you noticed , there was no quivering in Roger's decorum. Hell, if he wasn't facing Nadal, I would have been a Fed fan.

Much respect to you for that AP. And you know I call it how I see it. I feel like Rafa was flat the first set and a half I can admit that but that was it. Rafa was balling damn well in the 5th set much like he did vs. Grigor but Fed played insanely well to take it. Brad Gilbert usually overstates things but he said it may have been the 5 greatest games of Roger's career and given the stage I'd have to agree. Roger's backhand has never been that deadly vs. Rafa and the change in the AO surface and ball this year definitely helped. Fed survived the usual mental hiccups and that's what was new vs. Rafa, we Fed fans can only hope he's broken the hex a little bit when it comes to the space in Roger's head that Ralph occupies.

 

[Carol]

Very bad tactic decision by Rafa in the fifth set but I'm sure he has learned of it. I expect a lot more him this year though I also insist that his serve continues been his issue

 

[Front242]

Didn't think there was anything wrong with his tactics in set 5. After all he was up 3-1. It was simply a case of Roger playing amazing and making an unreal comeback. Even then, it took a monumental effort from Roger to get back level and even more so to pull ahead 5-3 with that unreal backhand.

 

[El Dude]

One thing to consider is that both could take another half step forward, given that both were laid off for some time and are just finding their pace and stamina. Watch out ATP tour...