2017 Australian Open Final: FEDAL XXXV

[El Dude]

Kieran, if it is any consolation I think Rafa will be very difficult to beat over the next few months, leading up to and including Roland Garros. Actually, both Roger and Rafa are--right now--in the states of mind that serve them best: Rafa surging and trying to get to the top, and Roger coasting after victory.

If Novak is inspired and Andy able to hold form, as well as rising younger players, it could be a blood-bath this year.

And by the way, if you've been paying attention, Zverev has been in the front of the queue for awhile now, at least in terms of potential. He's got a much more complete package than Thiem, Pouille, Kyrgios, Fritz, Tiafoe, etc. Kyrgios is as talented, but boy what a head-case.

 

[Front242]

Roger really improved his awful 5th set record this tournament too. Another plus. Many pluses from this event. Off the top of my head: 18th slam, now has 5+ at 3 of the slams (AO, Wimbledon, USO), beat 4 top 10 players on route to the title (after knee surgery a year ago and 6+ months off!), notched up another 3 x 5 set victories to improve that record as mentioned, oldest player to win a slam in donkey's years, lowest seeded champion I'd imagine for quite a few years, got the h2h with Nadal to 23-12. As I said earlier and a few years before, I always maintained that as these 2 aged, Roger would get that h2h looking less ugly and I stand by it. Especially in best of 3 I expect him to win a few more. When all's said and done, it won't look half as ugly.

Did you notice that in the trophy awarding ceremony speech, Roger requested that Rafa not retire and play for several more years. At that time, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Yeah, he'd like for the 2 of them to play on for quite a while and make that h2h more respectable which he will if they both do imo. Just hope Roger himself doesn't retire prematurely if he has a great year because he made us Fed fans happy as a pig in sh1t when he said he plans to play a few more years.

The way I see it, even if he won either Wimbledon or the USO this year, why retire ? Surely it'd make more sense to play on and deny the competition increasing their slam count even if he himself didn't win anymore. He could feasibly be a very dangerous opponent knocking out the top guys for a good few years yet even if it meant losing in the semis. Keeps his record safe for now and stops them increasing their slam count.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Nadal is in a different position because he is tied with someone who is retired already. So, the pressure of surpassing the retired player will only increase as more slams come by...

1. I think Rafa will get one more GS. I am saying this after seeing his revival at the AO. Before, I was not so sure.

2. Although it is debatable, many would consider Rafa as better than Pete, even if GS count is same due to a) Rafa's career grand slam and Pete's dismal record at RG and b) due to the tough era in which Rafa played.

 

[atttomole]

You will be in trouble with Sampras fans. They may not like what you said about his era being weaker than Nadal's.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

In the same sense that while I don't love Rafa's style, I cannot but respect him for his efficiency and amazing tenacity.

What efficiency? Rafa plays long matches and long points. Whatevery Rafa may be, efficient is not he. uzzled

Tenacity, I agree. Grit, I agree. Fighting Spirit, I agree.

It's sad that these two competitiors have the utmost respect for each other but some of their fans doesn't share those beliefs..:nono

Why would you think that pointing out a fact means disrespect? uzzled

 

[Kieran]

When you are betting on a horse race you have 3 options to place a bet.
1. Win
2. Place
3. Show

It was evident Roger chose option #1. I think Rafa wanted to win but when 75% of the balls he chose to put in play were to show, his odds of regaining that title were not that great.

I posted a few years ago about having the mindset of striking every ball with a purpose which was Roger's strategy last night. It was the right play. He won. Nuff said.

I think Rafa tried his best, bro, but neither physically or mentally was he strong enough. It's understandable, and only in patches was he able to summon the intensity and assertiveness of his best play here at Oz. I'm not overly judging him on his performance in the final, because he did very well, considering. Where I'm more examining him is in the wobble on serve in the second set against Grigor, the effect of which was the prolong that match and damage his chance in the final. He dropped serve 3 times in that set, I think the only times in that match, and his play was tentative and anxious. He even broke back twice but didn't gather up steam.

Likewise, the second set in an otherwise exemplary match against Milos. In 16 service games, his serve only stuttered twice - in that second set. He was lucky Milos blew a couple of set points (Rafa dictated play on other set points), but these losses in confidence, concentration, or whatever we call them, are uncharacteristic of Rafa at his most destructive.

In the final, he did great to prolong it, but he served nowhere as well, and he returned nowhere as well, as he had in other matches.

Positives? I thought in general he responded well to crises: 2-4 down to crazy Gael in the fourth, a scenario that coulda gotten messy, and he reeled off 4 straight games. His court-craft to defeat Zverev. His response to threats against Grigor and Milos showed that some semblance of his incredible mental prowess is returning. Generally, he was stubborn and difficult to dissolve, even in the final. But I wouldn't criticise him for his effort or shot selection in the final - he did as well as he could...

 

[the AntiPusher]

What efficiency? Rafa plays long matches and long points. Whatevery Rafa may be, efficient is not he. uzzled

Tenacity, I agree. Grit, I agree. Fighting Spirit, I agree.

It's sad that these two competitiors have the utmost respect for each other but some of their fans doesn't share those beliefs..:nono

Why would you think that pointing out a fact means disrespect? uzzled

What else does it means

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, if it is any consolation I think Rafa will be very difficult to beat over the next few months, leading up to and including Roland Garros. Actually, both Roger and Rafa are--right now--in the states of mind that serve them best: Rafa surging and trying to get to the top, and Roger coasting after victory.

If Novak is inspired and Andy able to hold form, as well as rising younger players, it could be a blood-bath this year.

And by the way, if you've been paying attention, Zverev has been in the front of the queue for awhile now, at least in terms of potential. He's got a much more complete package than Thiem, Pouille, Kyrgios, Fritz, Tiafoe, etc. Kyrgios is as talented, but boy what a head-case.

I agree with you dude. What impressed me most about Zverev was his bitter expression when facing defeat. The lad has a winners temper. And I agree about Nick. He needs help asap, but we all knew that long ago...

 

[Front242]

It's sad that these two competitiors have the utmost respect for each other but some of their fans doesn't share those beliefs..:nono

Why would you think that pointing out a fact means disrespect? uzzled

What else does it means

A Ferrari is faster than a mini. Is that disrespectful to the mini? No. It's just a fact, just as the above is.

 

[the AntiPusher]

When you are betting on a horse race you have 3 options to place a bet.
1. Win
2. Place
3. Show

It was evident Roger chose option #1. I think Rafa wanted to win but when 75% of the balls he chose to put in play were to show, his odds of regaining that title were not that great.

I posted a few years ago about having the mindset of striking every ball with a purpose which was Roger's strategy last night. It was the right play. He won. Nuff said.

I think Rafa tried his best, bro, but neither physically or mentally was he strong enough. It's understandable, and only in patches was he able to summon the intensity and assertiveness of his best play here at Oz. I'm not overly judging him on his performance in the final, because he did very well, considering. Where I'm more examining him is in the wobble on serve in the second set against Grigor, the effect of which was the prolong that match and damage his chance in the final. He dropped serve 3 times in that set, I think the only times in that match, and his play was tentative and anxious. He even broke back twice but didn't gather up steam.

Likewise, the second set in an otherwise exemplary match against Milos. In 16 service games, his serve only stuttered twice - in that second set. He was lucky Milos blew a couple of set points (Rafa dictated play on other set points), but these losses in confidence, concentration, or whatever we call them, are uncharacteristic of Rafa at his most destructive.

In the final, he did great to prolong it, but he served nowhere as well, and he returned nowhere as well, as he had in other matches.

Positives? I thought in general he responded well to crises: 2-4 down to crazy Gael in the fourth, a scenario that coulda gotten messy, and he reeled off 4 straight games. His court-craft to defeat Zverev. His response to threats against Grigor and Milos showed that some semblance of his incredible mental prowess is returning. Generally, he was stubborn and difficult to dissolve, even in the final. But I wouldn't criticise him for his effort or shot selection in the final - he did as well as he could...

Remember the US Open 2011..Roger had two match pts against Novak during the semifinals..Novak went for broke..high risk winners..all Roger could say is.." I don't know if Novak's intent was to go for that shot or if it was the correct shot to go for in those situations " ..well we all know the results and it was the shot to go for. Rafa said yesterday that Roger took a lot of Risks , so I guess he really deserved to win.

I know Rafa gave it his best and I don't think he will be mentally scared from this lost..sure he wanted to win but he is a professional..he will learn from this encounter and work hard for better results.

 

[Front242]

Don't remind me...Roger had 2 match points the year before too against Novak :cover

 

[the AntiPusher]

Why would you think that pointing out a fact means disrespect? uzzled

What else does it means

A Ferrari is faster than a mini. Is that disrespectful to the mini? No. It's just a fact, just as the above is.

It was a good match regardless of the winner..I am proud of the way both of these champions competed. I thought Roger outplayed Rafa and was deserving of the championship trophy:clap..

Rafa is still my top dawg..Rafa will lace em up and get after again..

 

[Kieran]

When you are betting on a horse race you have 3 options to place a bet.
1. Win
2. Place
3. Show

It was evident Roger chose option #1. I think Rafa wanted to win but when 75% of the balls he chose to put in play were to show, his odds of regaining that title were not that great.

I posted a few years ago about having the mindset of striking every ball with a purpose which was Roger's strategy last night. It was the right play. He won. Nuff said.

I think Rafa tried his best, bro, but neither physically or mentally was he strong enough. It's understandable, and only in patches was he able to summon the intensity and assertiveness of his best play here at Oz. I'm not overly judging him on his performance in the final, because he did very well, considering. Where I'm more examining him is in the wobble on serve in the second set against Grigor, the effect of which was the prolong that match and damage his chance in the final. He dropped serve 3 times in that set, I think the only times in that match, and his play was tentative and anxious. He even broke back twice but didn't gather up steam.

Likewise, the second set in an otherwise exemplary match against Milos. In 16 service games, his serve only stuttered twice - in that second set. He was lucky Milos blew a couple of set points (Rafa dictated play on other set points), but these losses in confidence, concentration, or whatever we call them, are uncharacteristic of Rafa at his most destructive.

In the final, he did great to prolong it, but he served nowhere as well, and he returned nowhere as well, as he had in other matches.

Positives? I thought in general he responded well to crises: 2-4 down to crazy Gael in the fourth, a scenario that coulda gotten messy, and he reeled off 4 straight games. His court-craft to defeat Zverev. His response to threats against Grigor and Milos showed that some semblance of his incredible mental prowess is returning. Generally, he was stubborn and difficult to dissolve, even in the final. But I wouldn't criticise him for his effort or shot selection in the final - he did as well as he could...

Remember the US Open 2011..Roger had two match pts against Novak during the semifinals..Novak went for broke..high risk winners..all Roger could say is.." I don't know if Novak's intent was to go for that shot or if it was the correct shot to go for in those situations " ..well we all know the results and it was the shot to go for. Rafa said yesterday that Roger took a lot of Risks , so I guess he really deserved to win.

I know Rafa gave it his best and I don't think he will be mentally scared from this lost..sure he wanted to win but he is a professional..he will learn from this encounter and work hard for better results.

I don't think he was mentally sharp enough to go for too many big shots, brother. Often he was predictable, and trying to be safe. He tried as hard as he could, and he'd have benefited from another nights rest, no question, but he wasn't able to reach the levels of intensity he showed in previous matches. He played hard and worked hard to reach the final but I look at his mental lapse in the 2nd set against Grigor and think, "Rafa, right there is why you went to 5 hours."

Grigor was immense and I'm not taking away from him, I actually wouldn't have been disappointed had he won because his effort was so swaggering and honest, and brilliant, but I don't think Rafa should have needed 5 hours to get the job done there...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Don't remind me...Roger had 2 match points the year before too against Novak :cover

Ditto in regards to Novak's escapes .. AO 2012.4-2 30-15 in the 5 set still hurts more than yesterday's results.

 

[Front242]

It wasn't a high quality match for much of it but had its moments. Definitely a big one for fans of both though given the magnitude of the difference in slam count now. Should be a wide open year at all the big tournaments. Interesting to see how Djokovic and Murray bounce back, how RoboRoger and his bionic knee will fare against both, etc.

 

[Front242]

Don't remind me...Roger had 2 match points the year before too against Novak :cover

Ditto in regards to Novak's escapes .. AO 2012.4-2 30-15 in the 5 set still hurts more than yesterday's results.

That wasn't even close to losing after holding 2 match points though 2 consecutive years. 30-30 or 40-15. Not much difference really. These guys have all won games from 0-40 down...

Edited to point out Nadal being down 15-40 to Dimitrov at 4-3 as an example. That was a fantastic hold. The net rushes and finishes were brilliant. Pure clutch and you know I hate Nadal I was watching it on my break in work and knew it was over when he held there. Much cursing while we went for a walk, watching it while walking lol.

 

[the AntiPusher]

It wasn't a high quality match for much of it but had its moments. Definitely a big one for fans of both though given the magnitude of the difference in slam count now. Should be a wide open year at all the big tournaments. Interesting to see how Djokovic and Murray bounce back, how RoboRoger and his bionic knee will fare against both, etc.

I stated before but you know who was dismissive about Roger potentially making sleepless nights for Novak and Andy..Roger continues to play with house money and that makes him extremely dangerous because he most likely have the same game plan as last night. Go for broke, what the hell do I have to loose.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I think Rafa tried his best, bro, but neither physically or mentally was he strong enough. It's understandable, and only in patches was he able to summon the intensity and assertiveness of his best play here at Oz. I'm not overly judging him on his performance in the final, because he did very well, considering. Where I'm more examining him is in the wobble on serve in the second set against Grigor, the effect of which was the prolong that match and damage his chance in the final. He dropped serve 3 times in that set, I think the only times in that match, and his play was tentative and anxious. He even broke back twice but didn't gather up steam.

Likewise, the second set in an otherwise exemplary match against Milos. In 16 service games, his serve only stuttered twice - in that second set. He was lucky Milos blew a couple of set points (Rafa dictated play on other set points), but these losses in confidence, concentration, or whatever we call them, are uncharacteristic of Rafa at his most destructive.

In the final, he did great to prolong it, but he served nowhere as well, and he returned nowhere as well, as he had in other matches.

Positives? I thought in general he responded well to crises: 2-4 down to crazy Gael in the fourth, a scenario that coulda gotten messy, and he reeled off 4 straight games. His court-craft to defeat Zverev. His response to threats against Grigor and Milos showed that some semblance of his incredible mental prowess is returning. Generally, he was stubborn and difficult to dissolve, even in the final. But I wouldn't criticise him for his effort or shot selection in the final - he did as well as he could...

Remember the US Open 2011..Roger had two match pts against Novak during the semifinals..Novak went for broke..high risk winners..all Roger could say is.." I don't know if Novak's intent was to go for that shot or if it was the correct shot to go for in those situations " ..well we all know the results and it was the shot to go for. Rafa said yesterday that Roger took a lot of Risks , so I guess he really deserved to win.

I know Rafa gave it his best and I don't think he will be mentally scared from this lost..sure he wanted to win but he is a professional..he will learn from this encounter and work hard for better results.

I don't think he was mentally sharp enough to go for too many big shots, brother. Often he was predictable, and trying to be safe. He tried as hard as he could, and he'd have benefited from another nights rest, no question, but he wasn't able to reach the levels of intensity he showed in previous matches. He played hard and worked hard to reach the final but I look at his mental lapse in the 2nd set against Grigor and think, "Rafa, right there is why you went to 5 hours."

Grigor was immense and I'm not taking away from him, I actually wouldn't have been disappointed had he won because his effort was so swaggering and honest, and brilliant, but I don't think Rafa should have needed 5 hours to get the job done there...

I see what you're saying..I think by RG if he is healthy he will be mentally prepared to be a champion again.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

They just mentioned another interesting tidbit in ESPN.

Roger won against four top 10 opponents at this AO to lift the trophy, viz., Berdych, Kei, Stan and Rafa. The last time somebody had to win against four top 10 opponents to life the trophy was 1982.
No doubt that this whole tournament (and the final) is a hard fought win. :clap

Also wondering if he ever had to win 3 five-setters to win a slam? :huh:

You are right. This is the first time he had to win 3 five setters in the same slam. Actually, the last one to do was Gaston Gudio in 2004 RG apparently (not the best company though). Having said that, it took 13 more years for it to be done again by anyone.

 

[lacatch]

I just had a chance to watch the match in replay. Great effort by both guys--and I really appreciate Nadal's mental toughness when it comes to saving break points (including thousands of them in the fifth set lol). I really think Roger got rid of a lot of demons with his performance in the fifth set. He's seen that nightmare scenario play out one too many times, and he just mental freed up, went for broke, and perhaps caused Rafa to tighten up at the same time. I honestly don't think this changes the GOAT argument one way or the other---but just an impressive effort by the two biggest stars in the game whom many had written off. I agree that 2017 is going to be quite a year!