2015 Cincinnati Masters Final: Djokovic v. Federer

[GameSetAndMath]

I am positive there will be some of those half volley service returns from Roger at the Open. I guess he is figuring second serve is the shortest ball he is going to get from some guys out there...

Loved those. I'd really appreciate a highlight reel with just these returns. Did it against Anderson, which seemed crazy enoug given his serve. Doing it against Murray is logical regarding the poor2nd serves, but risky given his passing abilities. But against Novak was really the masterclass.

Here is the highlights reel of Fed's new charging half volley return on second serves. Unfortunately, the reel does not include the brilliant one he pulled off in TB.

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaNLAXkUqiM[/video]

 

[the AntiPusher]

Now I want to see the numerous amount of new threads if Rafa would have lost like Novak did. I want to see all the stats such as Nole has Never won a set in the Finals at Cincy, I want to hear of the Nole decline, and etc. Let's just see is Djoker's inability to capture this title is treated as vigorous and with the same veracity as if this had been Rafa. My guess , not a damn post will be spawn via this butt whipping applied by Fed.

Roger is just plain better on fast hard courts as the results show. You want us to start threads about decline when Novak has won 2 slams and 4 masters 1000s already this year? Indian Wells, Miami, Monte Carlo and Rome :cover
That's some decline! Imagine if he was actually still good ?! :s

Front.. I aint trying to hear that bias blah blah about why this circumstance is dissimilar. Not one Thread was spawn from this dismantling of Djoker by Fed. Let the record show , I will give this post a bump when someone other than Novak looses.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The shot by Federer where he got a wide ball at full stretch got into the highlights. BTW, that shot is not even counted as the ball was out.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

In today's match there was a shot where Fed reached over the net and hit it. I thought it was illegal, but the commentators said it is fine as long as the ball is spinning backwards. I thought
Fed hit that ball of the air (i.e., before it bounced), but I may be mistaken. I think if you are taking the ball of the air, then you cannot reach over the net except as a follow through (i.e., at the time of
contact the the contact should have happened at your side of the court).

Here is the official rule on that from USTA.

"A player may break the plane of the net on a follow through from a shot as long as the ball was on that player’s side of the court when the ball was struck. (The player can only reach over to play a ball in the situation stated in the paragraph below).

The player in either situation may not touch the net, or the opponent’s court with anything he wears or carries or with any part of the body.

If the spin or wind brings the ball back over the net to the side of the player(s) who hit the shot, the opponent(s) may then reach over the net and play the ball. They may not touch the net or the opponent’s court. This is the only situation when a player may reach over the net to play a ball. If the opponent does not play the ball and it bounces on the side of the player who hit the spin shot, that player who hit that shot wins the point."

Most probably the ball hit Fed's side of the court and then was spinning back into Nole's side and so Fed reached over the net to hit the ball. But, I did not clearly see that. To me it looked as though Fed hit that ball before it bounced.

Can anyone post a video clip of that shot. Thanks.

 

[lindseywagners]

True but nothing like Melbourne where he's the king so I doubt it's the main reason for him not doing as well. It's the faster surface.

You're probably right. I've been to NYC but want to go to Melbourne someday. Have you experienced both? If so, how would you compare them?

Also, re: surfaces, is this accurate?

Slow: Melbourne, IW, Miami (which is the slowest?)
Fast: Dubai, Montreal, Cincy, NY (which is the fastest?)

What about the others? I'm assuming indoors are faster maybe than the "fast" ones above.

Cincy is definitely the fastest. No doubt about it.

Actually, even the indoor courts have been slowed down these days. They are not necessarily faster than the outdoor courts.

Thanks for the reply. Do you know anything more about the court speeds, is it up to the tournament to make them how they want them or does the ATP provide guidelines? Why are they all different exactly? Is there a purpose behind this? Or is there not really a reason, it's just that you have different construction crews making different courts how they've been made in one location for as long as they can remember?

Also: is Cincy faster than Wimbledon?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

You're probably right. I've been to NYC but want to go to Melbourne someday. Have you experienced both? If so, how would you compare them?

Also, re: surfaces, is this accurate?

Slow: Melbourne, IW, Miami (which is the slowest?)
Fast: Dubai, Montreal, Cincy, NY (which is the fastest?)

What about the others? I'm assuming indoors are faster maybe than the "fast" ones above.

Cincy is definitely the fastest. No doubt about it.

Actually, even the indoor courts have been slowed down these days. They are not necessarily faster than the outdoor courts.

Thanks for the reply. Do you know anything more about the court speeds, is it up to the tournament to make them how they want them or does the ATP provide guidelines? Why are they all different exactly? Is there a purpose behind this? Or is there not really a reason, it's just that you have different construction crews making different courts how they've been made in one location for as long as they can remember?

Also: is Cincy faster than Wimbledon?

Welcome to the confusing world of court speeds. Generally speaking it is up to the tournament organizers to decide the court speeds. Having said that, they don't change it at their whims and fancies as they want to give some predictable feeling to the players.

Yes, there is indeed a purpose and court speed plays an important role in determining which type of styles and players it favors. The faster the court, it will be suitable for aggressive shot makers
and also the rallies would tend to be shorter. The slower the court, it will be suitable for counterpunchers and also the rallies would tend to be longer. It is no accidents that Fed seems to be able to consistently beat Novak in Cincy and Dubai while consistently losing at IW or M or AO.


Sometimes the tournaments consciously decide to speed it up or slow it down to favor a particular
style of play. For example, it is well known that Wimbledon decided to slow down their court speeds considerably beginning since 2000 or so (due to the feeling that faster courts leads to boring matches with just aces and almost no play).

Yes, at this time I think Cincy is faster than Wimbledon.

If you are not yet confused about court speeds, I would recommend this blog on court speeds .

 

[Dhilip kumar]

Novak still is the favourite to win the US open. And a sure nail biting final is on the cards as we saw Roger in a ultra attacking mode.

I got reminded how Rafa defeated Roger in wimbledon to acheive greatness. He has beaten Roger many a times in clay courts before that wimbledon in 2008. But beating the legend on the court in which he conquered from (2003-08) is when he proved the world that he is the number 1. Even though Rafa had seen a downslide, he has proved to be equally competitive to Roger overall in tennis.

Roger has then lost many matches since 2009 to many players other than the top 4 in grass, clay etc.. And now is a similar situation where Novak stands just like Rafa in 2008. V all know he is best in Australian open. He has showed great improvement in Wimbledon grass courts. And with the grewing age, if the Cincy and Dubai courts are the only places where Roger is still conquering over anyone else at the age of 34, Novak has to beat Roger in the Dubai and Cincy open to prove that he is the best.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Novak still is the favourite to win the US open. And a sure nail biting final is on the cards as we saw Roger in a ultra attacking mode.

I got reminded how Rafa defeated Roger in wimbledon to acheive greatness. He has beaten Roger many a times in clay courts before that wimbledon in 2008. But beating the legend on the court in which he conquered from (2003-08) is when he proved the world that he is the number 1. Even though Rafa had seen a downslide, he has proved to be equally competitive to Roger overall in tennis.

Roger has then lost many matches since 2009 to many players other than the top 4 in grass, clay etc.. And now is a similar situation where Novak stands just like Rafa in 2008. V all know he is best in Australian open. He has showed great improvement in Wimbledon grass courts. And with the grewing age, if the Cincy and Dubai courts are the only places where Roger is still conquering over anyone else at the age of 34, Novak has to beat Roger in the Dubai and Cincy open to prove that he is the best.

Fed played brilliantly at Cncy with the chip and charge approach to attach all of his opponents including Murray and Djoker. However the if the surface at the US Open may be playing a bit slower than the ultra fast tracks at Cincy. Murray and Djoker's teams will make a very quick adjustment to Roger\Edberg tactic and will most likely have a proper counter.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

True but nothing like Melbourne where he's the king so I doubt it's the main reason for him not doing as well. It's the faster surface.

You're probably right. I've been to NYC but want to go to Melbourne someday. Have you experienced both? If so, how would you compare them?

Also, re: surfaces, is this accurate?

Slow: Melbourne, IW, Miami (which is the slowest?)
Fast: Dubai, Montreal, Cincy, NY (which is the fastest?)

What about the others? I'm assuming indoors are faster maybe than the "fast" ones above.

Cincy is definitely the fastest. No doubt about it.

Actually, even the indoor courts have been slowed down these days. They are not necessarily faster than the outdoor courts.

I would say it's something like this:

Melbourne: medium speed, medium bounce
Indian Wells: slow, high bounce
Miami: slow, low bounce

Melbourne is definitely the fastest of the three. Indian Wells might play a bit faster than Miami because of the dry desert air there, while it's often humid in Miami.

Dubai: fast, medium bounce
Cincinnati: fast, high bounce
Canada: medium/fast, medium/high bounce
US Open: medium/fast, medium/high bounce
Shanghai: medium/fast, medium bounce

Dubai is usually regarded as the fastest court, followed by Cincinnati. It might depend on the weather conditions which plays faster. Canada and the US Open are probably similar regarding the court, but I think New York plays a bit slower, because they use heavier balls there.

Paris Bercy and the World Tour Finals are probably medium/slow with a low bounce, so definitely not faster than Dubai or Cincinnati.

I think in general how fast a surface plays is not only about the speed of the surface itself, but is also significantly influenced by the bounce, conditions, the balls that are used and maybe even the ground of the site.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You're probably right. I've been to NYC but want to go to Melbourne someday. Have you experienced both? If so, how would you compare them?

Also, re: surfaces, is this accurate?

Slow: Melbourne, IW, Miami (which is the slowest?)
Fast: Dubai, Montreal, Cincy, NY (which is the fastest?)

What about the others? I'm assuming indoors are faster maybe than the "fast" ones above.

Cincy is definitely the fastest. No doubt about it.

Actually, even the indoor courts have been slowed down these days. They are not necessarily faster than the outdoor courts.

I would say it's something like this:

Melbourne: medium speed, medium bounce
Indian Wells: slow, high bounce
Miami: slow, low bounce

Melbourne is definitely the fastest of the three. Indian Wells might play a bit faster than Miami because of the dry desert air there, while it's often humid in Miami.

Dubai: fast, medium bounce
Cincinnati: fast, high bounce
Canada: medium/fast, medium/high bounce
US Open: medium/fast, medium/high bounce
Shanghai: medium/fast, medium bounce

Dubai is usually regarded as the fastest court, followed by Cincinnati. It might depend on the weather conditions which plays faster. Canada and the US Open are probably similar regarding the court, but I think New York plays a bit slower, because they use heavier balls there.

Paris Bercy and the World Tour Finals are probably medium/slow with a low bounce, so definitely not faster than Dubai or Cincinnati.

I think in general how fast a surface plays is not only about the speed of the surface itself, but is also significantly influenced by the bounce, conditions, the balls that are used and maybe even the ground of the site.

Sounds about right but Miami is high bouncing.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

Cincy is definitely the fastest. No doubt about it.

Actually, even the indoor courts have been slowed down these days. They are not necessarily faster than the outdoor courts.

I would say it's something like this:

Melbourne: medium speed, medium bounce
Indian Wells: slow, high bounce
Miami: slow, low bounce

Melbourne is definitely the fastest of the three. Indian Wells might play a bit faster than Miami because of the dry desert air there, while it's often humid in Miami.

Dubai: fast, medium bounce
Cincinnati: fast, high bounce
Canada: medium/fast, medium/high bounce
US Open: medium/fast, medium/high bounce
Shanghai: medium/fast, medium bounce

Dubai is usually regarded as the fastest court, followed by Cincinnati. It might depend on the weather conditions which plays faster. Canada and the US Open are probably similar regarding the court, but I think New York plays a bit slower, because they use heavier balls there.

Paris Bercy and the World Tour Finals seem to be medium/slow with a low bounce, so definitely not faster than Dubai or Cincinnati.

I think in general how fast a surface plays is not only about the speed of the surface itself, but is also significantly influenced by the bounce, conditions, the balls that are used and maybe even the ground of the site.

Sounds about right but Miami is high bouncing.

I thought Miami compared to Indian Wells has always been considered as significantly lower bouncing because the high humidity makes for pretty heavy conditions. That Nadal's record is much better at Indian Wells than at Miami while it's the other way around for Murray reinforced that impression to me. But it might be that Miami is just rather low bouncing for a slow outdoor HC than low bouncing on absolute terms.

 

[Frode789]

I am positive there will be some of those half volley service returns from Roger at the Open. I guess he is figuring second serve is the shortest ball he is going to get from some guys out there...

Loved those. I'd really appreciate a highlight reel with just these returns. Did it against Anderson, which seemed crazy enoug given his serve. Doing it against Murray is logical regarding the poor2nd serves, but risky given his passing abilities. But against Novak was really the masterclass.

Here is the highlights reel of Fed's new charging half volley return on second serves. Unfortunately, the reel does not include the brilliant one he pulled off in TB.

Anyone been able to find a video of the half volley return in the tiebreak?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Loved those. I'd really appreciate a highlight reel with just these returns. Did it against Anderson, which seemed crazy enoug given his serve. Doing it against Murray is logical regarding the poor2nd serves, but risky given his passing abilities. But against Novak was really the masterclass.

Here is the highlights reel of Fed's new charging half volley return on second serves. Unfortunately, the reel does not include the brilliant one he pulled off in TB.

Anyone been able to find a video of the half volley return in the tiebreak?

Frode, welcome.
This the only one I could find but I am sure they will surface soon.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4iFmaHvbEg[/video]

 

[Great Hands]

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Djokovic's last 10 big tournaments

There's no denying who is number one but Federer was amazing today. Djokovic will give his answer at the USO I'm sure!

Shouldn't there be another 'Winner' at the start of that list, because he won 7 'big ones' in a row (in which he competed), not 6 - the Paris Masters, WTFs, AO, IW, Miami, M-C and Rome.

In fact, if Djokovic can reach at least the final of the USO and Shanghai - a quite lilely occurence - he will have reached the final - at least - of every single big tournament - Grand Slam, Masters and WTFs - over a 12 month period. Would that ever have been done before? e.g. did Fed do it?
[check this!]

cld put this bit in my 'exctign time'; thread - and cld discuss an update of what is no longer achiebvale this year/for meoemtn - but then add the above!