2015 Australian Open Final: Djokovic vs. Murray

[herios]

Good morning, just opened my twitter and there it was all the " We are proud of Nole" ......
Very Happy to finally see him bag the 8 slam!:clap

 

[Denis]

^ Sure, there is no denying the tear and form Nadal was in during the 2013 US hardcourt season.

I guess this comes down to the debate on whether a player like Djokovic or Nadal playing at the best of his capability can still lose to another player like Djokovic or Nadal.

I think only fans of Ferrer might be willing to concede that this is possible. And you, maybe, since if I remember it well, you called it for Djokovic before that match in 2013.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ Sure, there is no denying the tear and form Nadal was in during the 2013 US hardcourt season.

I guess this comes down to the debate on whether a player like Djokovic or Nadal playing at the best of his capability can still lose to another player like Djokovic or Nadal.

I think only fans of Ferrer might be willing to concede that this is possible. And you, maybe, since if I remember it well, you called it for Djokovic before that match in 2013.

Yes, I think Djokovic's best would beat Nadal on hard courts. Djokovic however, wasn't close to his best throughout that summer, while Nadal was, so the result made perfect sense. That's pretty much the definition of being outplayed. Being able to play better than your opponent is what tennis is about. It's not about whose "highs" are actually "higher" but who can produce said highs more frequently.

 

[brokenshoelace]

So do you think that he lost because his knee or because he didn't have enough time to be fitted? don't be shocked, like I said before,the result wasn't a surprise

Have seen Rafa play a few times this year, and it's not that I think he's injured. It's that he doesn't have much bounce in his step. There doesn't seem to be much elasticity in those legs. Quite honestly when he does his little "run" it's kind of scary.

It could be just my imagination and poor eyesight.

I'm hoping he does the clay tour in the Americas as that helped him build confidence and find his form before.

Agreed with the above.

The reason I'm not freaking out yet is Rafa was looking pretty similar early on in his 2013 comeback on clay and his movement was quite off (not quite this bad, to be fair), but he worked his way back into form. The next couple of months will be quite revealing.

 

[Denis]

^ Sure, there is no denying the tear and form Nadal was in during the 2013 US hardcourt season.

I guess this comes down to the debate on whether a player like Djokovic or Nadal playing at the best of his capability can still lose to another player like Djokovic or Nadal.

I think only fans of Ferrer might be willing to concede that this is possible. And you, maybe, since if I remember it well, you called it for Djokovic before that match in 2013.

Yes, I think Djokovic's best would beat Nadal on hard courts. Djokovic however, wasn't close to his best throughout that summer, while Nadal was, so the result made perfect sense. That's pretty much the definition of being outplayed. Being able to play better than your opponent is what tennis is about. It's not about whose "highs" are actually "higher" but who can produce said highs more frequently.

Agreed.

And I don't see why anything of that contradicts with my point that Novak played subpar in 2013 and should have won more so than 2007. I was just genuinely disappointed in his level in that final, more so than the other lost US Open finals.

 

[crystalfire]

nice of djoker to win. anyone watch the match? just wondering why murray got bageled in the last set

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ Sure, there is no denying the tear and form Nadal was in during the 2013 US hardcourt season.

I guess this comes down to the debate on whether a player like Djokovic or Nadal playing at the best of his capability can still lose to another player like Djokovic or Nadal.

I think only fans of Ferrer might be willing to concede that this is possible. And you, maybe, since if I remember it well, you called it for Djokovic before that match in 2013.

Yes, I think Djokovic's best would beat Nadal on hard courts. Djokovic however, wasn't close to his best throughout that summer, while Nadal was, so the result made perfect sense. That's pretty much the definition of being outplayed. Being able to play better than your opponent is what tennis is about. It's not about whose "highs" are actually "higher" but who can produce said highs more frequently.

Agreed.

And I don't see why anything of that contradicts with my point that Novak played subpar in 2013 and should have won more so than 2007. I was just genuinely disappointed in his level in that final, more so than the other lost US Open finals.

Doesn't contradict your point about him playing sub-par. It does not mean he should have won however. If Novak had been at his best all year and suddenly wet the bed in the final then maybe we can discuss how he should have won. But as it stood, he just lost to the guy who was playing better than him for a good few months, and had just beaten him on the same surface a few weeks earlier. That's the nuance.

 

[nehmeth]

:hug STILL FRIENDS??? :hug

 

[Kieran]

In 2007, Novak was a kid in that final with Roger. I was unlucky to be at it, given how formally it played out, and though Novak was strong in every set, he was clueless as to how to close it out. He just wasn't ready at that level yet.

I thought the final and semi this year were actually the lesser performances by Nole in the tournament. He looked shaky each time, could have lost the first today, and Murray went into a serious slump from a 2-0 lead in the third. Nole was stronger and I expected him to win, but the wobbles and uncertainty afflicted him again. Having said that, he was clearly the best player in the tourney...

 

[Denis]

Lol, you saw the Fedster win a Slam live? Did you pay for the ticket too?

 

[Denis]

Yes, I think Djokovic's best would beat Nadal on hard courts. Djokovic however, wasn't close to his best throughout that summer, while Nadal was, so the result made perfect sense. That's pretty much the definition of being outplayed. Being able to play better than your opponent is what tennis is about. It's not about whose "highs" are actually "higher" but who can produce said highs more frequently.

Agreed.

And I don't see why anything of that contradicts with my point that Novak played subpar in 2013 and should have won more so than 2007. I was just genuinely disappointed in his level in that final, more so than the other lost US Open finals.

Doesn't contradict your point about him playing sub-par. It does not mean he should have won however. If Novak had been at his best all year and suddenly wet the bed in the final then maybe we can discuss how he should have won. But as it stood, he just lost to the guy who was playing better than him for a good few months, and had just beaten him on the same surface a few weeks earlier. That's the nuance.

Well, those are my views anyways. I think he should have won if he would have been able to play to his capability. But he didn't and Nadal played very very well, so clearly deserved Slam title for Nadal, no question about that.

 

[Kieran]

A good point was made in the commentary, and I'm not getting at Amelie here, but under Lendl, Murray had more or less eradicated the negativity. He actually started to become negative when he was still up a break in the third, and then he folded. Under Ivan, that sort of thing wasn't so apparent.

It's a positive tournament for him but we can see in this match how important the mental side is, and how any weaknesses in that area can be exploited, and become fatal. Andy will get better, but will he get rid of this whining side of his character? Can he do that twice?

Pretty hard to change one's personality so my guess is no.

To me, these things are an issue of discipline. Of course he can change his personality - he changed it under Lendl, who obviously showed him how, and why. This kind of inward negativity that manifests when Murray is in tight corners only undermines him out there. As I say, it started to show actually in the 3rd when he was up a break, and from there he slid into oblivion. A strong and experienced coach can show him why he ought to banish this stuff, because it not only affects him badly, it gives hope to his opponent...

 

[Kieran]

Lol, you saw the Fedster win a Slam live? Did you pay for the ticket too?

Unfortunately, I did. I had thought that if that day ever came, I'd be sitting there in handcuffs, with a gun in my ribs. But I bought the tickets after the FO - surprisingly cheap to get seats for the USO finals, by the way - and let's just say it wasn't the final I was hoping for... :nono

 

[Denis]

Lol, you saw the Fedster win a Slam live? Did you pay for the ticket too?

Unfortunately, I did. I had thought that if that day ever came, I'd be sitting there in handcuffs, with a gun in my ribs. But I bought the tickets after the FO - surprisingly cheap to get seats for the USO finals, by the way - and let's just say it wasn't the final I was hoping for... :nono

:snicker Sorry to hear that :snicker

Did you also clap for old Wodger when he won and when he showed you the trophy? It must have been a most difficult afternoon...

 

[Kieran]

Lol, you saw the Fedster win a Slam live? Did you pay for the ticket too?

Unfortunately, I did. I had thought that if that day ever came, I'd be sitting there in handcuffs, with a gun in my ribs. But I bought the tickets after the FO - surprisingly cheap to get seats for the USO finals, by the way - and let's just say it wasn't the final I was hoping for... :nono

:snicker Sorry to hear that :snicker

Did you also clap for old Wodger when he won and when he showed you the trophy? It must have been a most difficult afternoon...

I pretended to clap, but my hands kept missing each other.. :snicker

 

[nehmeth]

Watching the end of the third set now and witnessing the beginning of yet another Murray meltdown. Sadly it's all too familiar.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

A good point was made in the commentary, and I'm not getting at Amelie here, but under Lendl, Murray had more or less eradicated the negativity. He actually started to become negative when he was still up a break in the third, and then he folded. Under Ivan, that sort of thing wasn't so apparent.

It's a positive tournament for him but we can see in this match how important the mental side is, and how any weaknesses in that area can be exploited, and become fatal. Andy will get better, but will he get rid of this whining side of his character? Can he do that twice?

Pretty hard to change one's personality so my guess is no.

To me, these things are an issue of discipline. Of course he can change his personality - he changed it under Lendl, who obviously showed him how, and why. This kind of inward negativity that manifests when Murray is in tight corners only undermines him out there. As I say, it started to show actually in the 3rd when he was up a break, and from there he slid into oblivion. A strong and experienced coach can show him why he ought to banish this stuff, because it not only affects him badly, it gives hope to his opponent...

I'm still of the school of thought that Murray shouldn't really need Lendl or a similar character to sort it out for him. He's the one hitting the ball out there so it's really his problem and it's not like he doesn't know how to keep a lid on it as, like you say, he's done it in the past.

 

[Kieran]

Pretty hard to change one's personality so my guess is no.

To me, these things are an issue of discipline. Of course he can change his personality - he changed it under Lendl, who obviously showed him how, and why. This kind of inward negativity that manifests when Murray is in tight corners only undermines him out there. As I say, it started to show actually in the 3rd when he was up a break, and from there he slid into oblivion. A strong and experienced coach can show him why he ought to banish this stuff, because it not only affects him badly, it gives hope to his opponent...

I'm still of the school of thought that Murray shouldn't really need Lendl or a similar character to sort it out for him. He's the one hitting the ball out there so it's really his problem and it's not like he doesn't know how to keep a lid on it as, like you say, he's done it in the past.

This is part of the coaches role, though, to watch from the outside and advise. I think Lendl clicked with Andy in such a unique way that he never felt the urge during a match to look at Lendl and holler, "f****** flashy Czech f***!", or something similar. Whether by threats or care, Lendl put a lid on that and it helped Andy...

 

[Riotbeard]

To me, these things are an issue of discipline. Of course he can change his personality - he changed it under Lendl, who obviously showed him how, and why. This kind of inward negativity that manifests when Murray is in tight corners only undermines him out there. As I say, it started to show actually in the 3rd when he was up a break, and from there he slid into oblivion. A strong and experienced coach can show him why he ought to banish this stuff, because it not only affects him badly, it gives hope to his opponent...

I'm still of the school of thought that Murray shouldn't really need Lendl or a similar character to sort it out for him. He's the one hitting the ball out there so it's really his problem and it's not like he doesn't know how to keep a lid on it as, like you say, he's done it in the past.

This is part of the coaches role, though, to watch from the outside and advise. I think Lendl clicked with Andy in such a unique way that he never felt the urge during a match to look at Lendl and holler, "f****** flashy Czech f***!", or something similar. Whether by threats or care, Lendl put a lid on that and it helped Andy...

I agree that murray should be able to work these issues out himself, but he hasn't yet...

 

[Seero]

Congrats to Djokovic and his fans :cry

That was a hard watch, I'm always nervous and on edge when watching Andy in the latter stages. Unfortunately, Novak was again too consistent and ultimately too good for Andy.

Rather than look too far ahead to Wimbledon etc, it would be nice to see Andy do something in the masters again (Miami 2013 was his last win I think).

By the way, Kim's t-shirt was a nice touch :clap