2014 Wimbledon Quarterfinals: Murray vs. Dimitrov

[Moxie]

I'm not too sure anybody is being "harsh" regarding Mauresmo. I mean, she was hired short term until Wimbledon and he's just lost heavily, in the quarters. What should we say? That she's made him better? We can only measure a short term contract by the results, even these are also short term.

It'd be up to him if he keeps her, but I don't see why he should. I don't blame her for the defeat, by the way, but by the same token, I don't see anything to praise. He did better in Paris on clay without her...

How about "she looks like Deliciano?" There have been more than a few snide comments just referring to the fact that he hired a woman, at all. That's what I was referring to. Lendl had a very positive effect on Andy, and I'm not sure who can replace that. Maybe not Mauresmo, but not because she's a woman.

She does look like Deliciano! She's pretty, in other words. But that was funny. I don't see what she can bring to him. As I said elsewhere, Virginia Wade caught some incoming flak cos she wondered why Andy replaced the intense discipline of Lendl with the nourishment of Amelie. But I think Ginny was correct. This appointment puzzled me. I just don't see it succeeding. Is it because she's a woman? Andy's ma is a woman, and she coached him.

It's just a wrong fit, far as I can make out...

I agree that Feliciano is very pretty, but I'd say, beyond the square jaw, that's where the resemblance ends. And yes, Amelie is pretty, if that's part of her qualification as a coach. Wade should have caught flak for comparing "discipline" from a man to "nurturing" from a woman. What does she know about Mauresmo's coaching methods? That's a sexist clichè. By accounts, Judy Murray was tough, Gloria Connors was tough, and so was Safin/Safina's mother, (possibly to both of their detriments, ultimately.) And those were their mothers. :laydownlaughing I don't see why an unrelated woman would be more nurturing.

 

[nehmeth]

One more thing regarding Lendl... the moment he and Andy parted ways, I would have loved to hear that Djokovic was on his doorstep. Novak has some of the same shortcomings as Murray and after watching him get passively defensive against a guy he'd beaten 9 times before, I think Nole could use a little of the withering gaze from the steely Czech, rather than the puffy eyed Becker.

 

[nehmeth]

I mentioned a while back, only one male pro had a female coach while he was on tour; a Russian called Andrei Cherkasov! Plenty of players allowed their moms to get them started; even Jimmy Connors with Gloria, but you need a firm hand if you expect to get anywhere and move up the rankings! :nono :angel:

And clearly you think a woman wouldn't provide one. That's my point.

Well he could look up Renee Richards; maybe she could smack him around a little! :snigger :lolz: :laydownlaughing

:cover Now that is just wrong!

:snigger

 

[TennisFanatic7]

I'm not too sure anybody is being "harsh" regarding Mauresmo. I mean, she was hired short term until Wimbledon and he's just lost heavily, in the quarters. What should we say? That she's made him better? We can only measure a short term contract by the results, even these are also short term.

It'd be up to him if he keeps her, but I don't see why he should. I don't blame her for the defeat, by the way, but by the same token, I don't see anything to praise. He did better in Paris on clay without her...

Criticising a coach based on two tournaments where Murray hasn't played conclusively better or worse than he was before is harsh in my book whatever way you spin it.

After Wimbledon last year, still with Lendl as coach, Murray lost badly to Gulbis in Canada, to Berdych in QFs at Cincinnati, badly to Stan in US Open QFs, disappointingly to Florian Mayer in Doha, pretty convincingly to Federer in Melbourne, then to Cilic in Rotterdam, Dimitrov in Acapulco, and a match he should have won against Raonic in Indian Wells, then came the split.

He only hired her for the grass season TF7. No one is blaming her for the loss, just saying that she didn't help.

Trying to blame Lendl on Andy's play post Wimbledon is ridiculous. Andy himself stated that after attaining the crown, he was distracted. I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the reasons why Lendl decided to move on.

I'm just stating facts. Why should pointing those out go down as "blaming Lendl" when they are merely facts. His results were poor under Lendl, his results were poor between Lendl and Mauresmo, his results have been poor under Mauresmo. Why are we pointing fingers at Mauresmo? You've said just here that Murray was distracted after Wimbledon. Why is that an excuse for his poor form under Lendl, but not an excuse for his poor performances with Mauresmo?

Criticising a coach based on two tournaments where Murray hasn't played conclusively better or worse than he was before is harsh in my book whatever way you spin it.

But...she was only hired for two tourneys. So what else should we look at? I'm not blaming her fir his defeat, by the way...

We wait and see. If she hasn't given Murray what he needs, they won't continue the relationship and she has failed. But it sounds like Andy wants to continue the relationship.

Let's all bear in mind here, Lendl was appointed as Murray's coach ahead of 2012. His role was to get Murray over the line in slams. It took them four slams together to achieve that, these things take time but Andy's choice of coach in that case turned out to be right. I trust his judgement.

By all means, have your opinions regarding Mauresmo. Personally, I'm yet to be convinced in either direction and I'm by no means trying to argue here that she's definitely the right appointment. I will come to my conclusions in my own time. I just think mentioning her as anything other than a debatable, minor reason for this defeat is very harsh on her. There is already more scrutiny on this partnership than there should be because she has lady bits, not necessarily by anyone on here, but in the general tennis media and fandom, and as a result, people are trying to come to their conclusions as soon as they can, too soon.

 

[nehmeth]

I agree that Feliciano is very pretty, but I'd say, beyond the square jaw, that's where the resemblance ends. And yes, Amelie is pretty, if that's part of her qualification as a coach. Wade should have caught flak for comparing "discipline" from a man to "nurturing" from a woman. What does she know about Mauresmo's coaching methods? That's a sexist clichè. By accounts, Judy Murray was tough, Gloria Connors was tough, and so was Safin/Safina's mother, (possibly to both of their detriments, ultimately.) And those were their mothers. :laydownlaughing I don't see why an unrelated woman would be more nurturing.

Calling Wade sexist? Really? It's not as though she's spouting off never having played elite tennis. She was and remains immersed in the game. I would rather guess that she did her research and asked around as to what Mauresmo's coaching style is.

And yes Gloria Connors was vicious. She'd make little Jimmy come to the net and slam the ball at him as hard as she could, and tell him to get used to it. She created a player that was fearless and hated to lose, but maybe there were other more important lessons a kid could learn from his Mom.

 

[Moxie]

I agree that Feliciano is very pretty, but I'd say, beyond the square jaw, that's where the resemblance ends. And yes, Amelie is pretty, if that's part of her qualification as a coach. Wade should have caught flak for comparing "discipline" from a man to "nurturing" from a woman. What does she know about Mauresmo's coaching methods? That's a sexist clichè. By accounts, Judy Murray was tough, Gloria Connors was tough, and so was Safin/Safina's mother, (possibly to both of their detriments, ultimately.) And those were their mothers. :laydownlaughing I don't see why an unrelated woman would be more nurturing.

Calling Wade sexist? Really? It's not as though she's spouting off never having played elite tennis. She was and remains immersed in the game. I would rather guess that she did her research and asked around as to what Mauresmo's coaching style is.

And yes Gloria Connors was vicious. She'd make little Jimmy come to the net and slam the ball at him as hard as she could, and tell him to get used to it. She created a player that was fearless and hated to lose, but maybe there were other more important lessons a kid could learn from his Mom.

Clearly there's some bad blood with Wade. In fairness, I don't see where Wade said that Mauresmo would be "nurturing," or "nourishing." This word came from posters. Wade said that Amelie would just tell Andy "well-done," i.e., reassure him, whether that's a fair assessment or not. And she called out Mauresmo's mental fragility. In that sense, she could have been talking about anyone, so, no, it's not specifically sexist.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I had Jimmy Connor's on this match commentating....may I say it was a refreshing change,than to listen to Andrew Castle,who I cannot stand.Jimmy made insightful comments throughout the match.He was a pleasure to listen to.

 

[Fiero425]

I mentioned a while back, only one male pro had a female coach while he was on tour; a Russian called Andrei Cherkasov! Plenty of players allowed their moms to get them started; even Jimmy Connors with Gloria, but you need a firm hand if you expect to get anywhere and move up the rankings! :nono :angel:

And clearly you think a woman wouldn't provide one. That's my point.

Well he could look up Renee Richards; maybe she could smack him around a little! :snigger :lolz: :laydownlaughing

:cover Now that is just wrong!

:snigger

I can joke about it! My step-dad lived in Forest Hills at the time and knew Richard Raskind way back when! Funny how my mom who was associated with billing management at Playboy in the beginning met Christine Jorgensen! I should write a book! :angel:

 

[Front242]

I had Jimmy Connor's on this match commentating....may I say it was a refreshing change,than to listen to Andrew Castle,who I cannot stand.Jimmy made insightful comments throughout the match.He was a pleasure to listen to.

Yeah, can't stand Andy Castle either. Mark Petchey is completely biased towards Murray but for once wasn't too bad and praised Dimitrov. Ronald McIntosh was commentating a few matches and I hadn't heard him before and thought he was good though I wish Robbie Koenig commentated at slams. He's the best imo.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Castle is a bit of an idiot. I don't like Petchey when he's alongside Barry Cowan on Sky Sports in the UK, but on his own I think he actually talks a lot of sense in the studio. When it comes to live commentary pretty much all of the commentators annoy me in some way.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I had Jimmy Connor's on this match commentating....may I say it was a refreshing change,than to listen to Andrew Castle,who I cannot stand.Jimmy made insightful comments throughout the match.He was a pleasure to listen to.

Yeah, can't stand Andy Castle either. Mark Petchey is completely biased towards Murray but for once wasn't too bad and praised Dimitrov. Ronald McIntosh was commentating a few matches and I hadn't heard him before and thought he was good though I wish Robbie Koenig commentated at slams. He's the best imo.

I also had Peter Fleming as one of my commentator's in a few of the matches.I liked his commentary as well,pity Andrew Castle was co-commentator....

Agree...I enjoy listening to Robbie Koening...it is a wonder noone has picked him up to commentate at the slams.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Might sound harsh as I have nothing against his insight or personality but I just can't listen to Koenig, that voice of his!

 

[Moxie]

Might sound harsh as I have nothing against his insight or personality but I just can't listen to Koenig, that voice of his!

I think you might be the only one.

 

[nehmeth]

I agree that Feliciano is very pretty, but I'd say, beyond the square jaw, that's where the resemblance ends. And yes, Amelie is pretty, if that's part of her qualification as a coach. Wade should have caught flak for comparing "discipline" from a man to "nurturing" from a woman. What does she know about Mauresmo's coaching methods? That's a sexist clichè. By accounts, Judy Murray was tough, Gloria Connors was tough, and so was Safin/Safina's mother, (possibly to both of their detriments, ultimately.) And those were their mothers. :laydownlaughing I don't see why an unrelated woman would be more nurturing.

Calling Wade sexist? Really? It's not as though she's spouting off never having played elite tennis. She was and remains immersed in the game. I would rather guess that she did her research and asked around as to what Mauresmo's coaching style is.

And yes Gloria Connors was vicious. She'd make little Jimmy come to the net and slam the ball at him as hard as she could, and tell him to get used to it. She created a player that was fearless and hated to lose, but maybe there were other more important lessons a kid could learn from his Mom.

Clearly there's some bad blood with Wade. In fairness, I don't see where Wade said that Mauresmo would be "nurturing," or "nourishing." This word came from posters. Wade said that Amelie would just tell Andy "well-done," i.e., reassure him, whether that's a fair assessment or not. And she called out Mauresmo's mental fragility. In that sense, she could have been talking about anyone, so, no, it's not specifically sexist.

Thank you for posting the article. First of all thanks for being fair about doing some back up checking. Is there clearly bad blood or is Ginny simply not a fan? Virginia Wade has an opinion about Murray, and she hasn't been quiet about it. Of course reading her comments, I find myself agreeing with her. :snigger

 

[Moxie]

I agree that Feliciano is very pretty, but I'd say, beyond the square jaw, that's where the resemblance ends. And yes, Amelie is pretty, if that's part of her qualification as a coach. Wade should have caught flak for comparing "discipline" from a man to "nurturing" from a woman. What does she know about Mauresmo's coaching methods? That's a sexist clichè. By accounts, Judy Murray was tough, Gloria Connors was tough, and so was Safin/Safina's mother, (possibly to both of their detriments, ultimately.) And those were their mothers. :laydownlaughing I don't see why an unrelated woman would be more nurturing.

Calling Wade sexist? Really? It's not as though she's spouting off never having played elite tennis. She was and remains immersed in the game. I would rather guess that she did her research and asked around as to what Mauresmo's coaching style is.

And yes Gloria Connors was vicious. She'd make little Jimmy come to the net and slam the ball at him as hard as she could, and tell him to get used to it. She created a player that was fearless and hated to lose, but maybe there were other more important lessons a kid could learn from his Mom.

Clearly there's some bad blood with Wade. In fairness, I don't see where Wade said that Mauresmo would be "nurturing," or "nourishing." This word came from posters. Wade said that Amelie would just tell Andy "well-done," i.e., reassure him, whether that's a fair assessment or not. And she called out Mauresmo's mental fragility. In that sense, she could have been talking about anyone, so, no, it's not specifically sexist.

Thank you for posting the article. First of all thanks for being fair about doing some back up checking. Is there clearly bad blood or is Ginny simply not a fan? Virginia Wade has an opinion about Murray, and she hasn't been quiet about it. Of course reading her comments, I find myself agreeing with her. :snigger

I don't know. The article (or another I saw) says that Wade is friends with Judy Murray. Maybe it's just British players from the old days getting to opine, and Andy gets fed up with hearing it. I do think he gets an unfair amount of input, and second-guessing. Did you read that bit that Iona posted about him being questioned about being the "hopes of a nation" after England went out of the World Cup? He posited that no one was asking Wayne Rooney about Murray's Wimbledon and shut the interviewer up, good shape. No one gets the local pressure that Andy does. Enough already.

 

[calitennis127]

I'm not too sure anybody is being "harsh" regarding Mauresmo. I mean, she was hired short term until Wimbledon and he's just lost heavily, in the quarters. What should we say? That she's made him better? We can only measure a short term contract by the results, even these are also short term.

It'd be up to him if he keeps her, but I don't see why he should. I don't blame her for the defeat, by the way, but by the same token, I don't see anything to praise. He did better in Paris on clay without her...

This is my suggestion to Murray if he wants a female coach: go one of two routes. Either go for the fear factor, or go for inspiration.

If he wants to look up at something scary in the box, then he should hire Billie Jean King. No regular male would not be petrified by the sight.

On the other hand, if he wants to be inspired and still have a French female coach, he should hire Mylene Jamponoi. Seeing her in the box would provide instant inspiration the moment he fell behind in a match.

 

[nehmeth]

Did you read that bit that Iona posted about him being questioned about being the "hopes of a nation" after England went out of the World Cup? He posited that no one was asking Wayne Rooney about Murray's Wimbledon and shut the interviewer up, good shape. No one gets the local pressure that Andy does. Enough already.

Great comeback by Murray!

There are other players beside Andy who are the top sports figure for their respective country. They carry the hopes and dreams of their countrymen throughout the world on their shoulders. We hear more of it with regard to Murray because his home country (at least until Scotland votes) is also the home of Wimbledon, the biggest tennis event on the planet.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Might sound harsh as I have nothing against his insight or personality but I just can't listen to Koenig, that voice of his!

I think you might be the only one.

Perhaps not the only one as one of my best friends is in the same boat. Fair enough if I'm the only one on here though..

 

[calitennis127]

I'm not too sure anybody is being "harsh" regarding Mauresmo. I mean, she was hired short term until Wimbledon and he's just lost heavily, in the quarters. What should we say? That she's made him better? We can only measure a short term contract by the results, even these are also short term.

It'd be up to him if he keeps her, but I don't see why he should. I don't blame her for the defeat, by the way, but by the same token, I don't see anything to praise. He did better in Paris on clay without her...

How about "she looks like Deliciano?" There have been more than a few snide comments just referring to the fact that he hired a woman, at all. That's what I was referring to. Lendl had a very positive effect on Andy, and I'm not sure who can replace that. Maybe not Mauresmo, but not because she's a woman.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I also think that we have a huge misconception in society today that men can't be as good stay-at-home parents as mothers. This is nonsense.

And what really pisses me off is the gender bias in favor of women in the fashion industry and with fashion shows.

Why are there no Mr. America beauty pageants right before the Miss America pageants? Why isn't there a Jos. A. Bank show right before the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show on CBS every year like they have the women's tennis finals shown right before the men's tennis finals?

What a bunch of bullshit.:cry

 

[Moxie]

Did you read that bit that Iona posted about him being questioned about being the "hopes of a nation" after England went out of the World Cup? He posited that no one was asking Wayne Rooney about Murray's Wimbledon and shut the interviewer up, good shape. No one gets the local pressure that Andy does. Enough already.

Great comeback by Murray!

There are other players beside Andy who are the top sports figure for their respective country. They carry the hopes and dreams of their countrymen throughout the world on their shoulders. We hear more of it with regard to Murray because his home country (at least until Scotland votes) is also the home of Wimbledon, the biggest tennis event on the planet.

I know you're thinking about Djokovic, but they revere him in Serbia. They don't pressure him. Same with Nadal in Spain, and Roger in Switzerland. While all 3 carry the standard for their country, and that has a bit of pressure…I'm sorry: it's nothing like what Murray puts up with.