2014 Roland Garros QF: Nadal vs. Ferrer

[Moxie]

Cheers for posting that, Iona. A great insight and very surprised to hear they're so radically different in terms of speed.

Surprising, actually. So the flatter ball hitter is favored in Lenglen? That doesn't help Ferrer. Nadal's ball will get up on him.

Ferrer hits a flatter ball than Nadal so if Verdasco's comments are true, the court will help him. Nadal's ball gets up on opponents because of top spin, not because it's flat.

I think I was clear about that (Nadal's spin, not flat hitting.) Aren't you the one that says a faster court helps Nadal? Ferrer can hit flat, and get fast on a ball, but if the court is fast, and Nadal's ball jumps up on a less than tall Ferrer, doesn't that help Nadal, at least in the rallies? I would think the worry would be Ferrer returns, if Nadal is still serving puff balls.

Actually, no you weren't clear. You said "so the flatter hitter is favored in Lenglen? That doesn't help Ferrer." It sounded pretty contradicting, and the part about the ball getting up was right after the flat part with no mention of top spin, hence the confusion. Of course Nadal's ball will get up on Ferrer as it's still clay. But, if Verdasco's account is indeed accurate (keep in mind different players say different things about the same surface/courts all the time), then the courts would give Ferrer a slightly better chance than he would have had on Chatrier (though not necessarily a great one). The courts being faster means the ball will jump less on Ferrer.

Of course Nadal's balls will still kick up and he'll still have the advantage since it's on clay, he's the better player, and he's the favorite. But that seems like such an obvious statement to make that nobody would bother using it to preface their arguments, and understandably so.

As far as me saying Nadal would prefer a faster surface, you're putting words in my mouth and taking comments out of context. I mentioned that Nadal would likely prefer HARD COURTS to play slightly faster against NOVAK DJOKOVIC, as he can't hit through him on slower hards and can't get any cheap points on serves. This literally has nothing to do with playing Ferrer on clay.

"I would think the worry would be Ferrer returns, if Nadal is still serving puff balls."

Yes, and I would think I've brought up about a week ago

OK, I was being conflicting…trying to hold next matches in my head, and gaming the upcoming one. And yes, you brought up the serve ages ago. But here is where I'm unclear: If the court is faster, why doesn't it take Nadal's spin better? When conditions are heavy, we say that it doesn't favor Nadal, because it negates the spin. When it's hot and sunny, we say that it does favor his spin. I thought that was for the faster court. I'd love it if you could explain that.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

If I was told that a court favoured a flatter ball striker I'd say that is an advantage to Ferrer (and pretty much any other notable player) more than Nadal. The TV comms are always chirping out stats about how many more RPM Rafa puts on his forehand than anyone else manages to.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Surprising, actually. So the flatter ball hitter is favored in Lenglen? That doesn't help Ferrer. Nadal's ball will get up on him.

Ferrer hits a flatter ball than Nadal so if Verdasco's comments are true, the court will help him. Nadal's ball gets up on opponents because of top spin, not because it's flat.

I think I was clear about that (Nadal's spin, not flat hitting.) Aren't you the one that says a faster court helps Nadal? Ferrer can hit flat, and get fast on a ball, but if the court is fast, and Nadal's ball jumps up on a less than tall Ferrer, doesn't that help Nadal, at least in the rallies? I would think the worry would be Ferrer returns, if Nadal is still serving puff balls.

Actually, no you weren't clear. You said "so the flatter hitter is favored in Lenglen? That doesn't help Ferrer." It sounded pretty contradicting, and the part about the ball getting up was right after the flat part with no mention of top spin, hence the confusion. Of course Nadal's ball will get up on Ferrer as it's still clay. But, if Verdasco's account is indeed accurate (keep in mind different players say different things about the same surface/courts all the time), then the courts would give Ferrer a slightly better chance than he would have had on Chatrier (though not necessarily a great one). The courts being faster means the ball will jump less on Ferrer.

Of course Nadal's balls will still kick up and he'll still have the advantage since it's on clay, he's the better player, and he's the favorite. But that seems like such an obvious statement to make that nobody would bother using it to preface their arguments, and understandably so.

As far as me saying Nadal would prefer a faster surface, you're putting words in my mouth and taking comments out of context. I mentioned that Nadal would likely prefer HARD COURTS to play slightly faster against NOVAK DJOKOVIC, as he can't hit through him on slower hards and can't get any cheap points on serves. This literally has nothing to do with playing Ferrer on clay.

"I would think the worry would be Ferrer returns, if Nadal is still serving puff balls."

Yes, and I would think I've brought up about a week ago

OK, I was being conflicting…trying to hold next matches in my head, and gaming the upcoming one. And yes, you brought up the serve ages ago. But here is where I'm unclear: If the court is faster, why doesn't it take Nadal's spin better? When conditions are heavy, we say that it doesn't favor Nadal, because it negates the spin. When it's hot and sunny, we say that it does favor his spin. I thought that was for the faster court. I'd love it if you could explain that.

A court can be very fast and high bouncing. For instance, the US Open was playing pretty fast in 2010 when Nadal won it, but the courts were taking his spin much better than in previous years due to the type of balls used and the weather conditions that year. Likewise, the WTF surface in London is pretty low bouncing but relatively slow. So bounce and speed, while related, are not necessarily one and the same.

On clay, yes the hotter it is, the more it suits Nadal. In hot conditions, the ball does travel through the air faster, but the clay absorbs Nadal's spin better and it produces a higher bounce. Meanwhile, in heavy conditions, the ball will travel through the air slower, but stay lower when it bounces. That's kinda way we say that what matters for Nadal is not so much the court speed as it is how the surface reacts to his spin.

I should have phrased my "the courts being faster means the ball will jump less on Ferrer" comment a little better.

 

[TsarMatt]

Does anyone know if it's going to rain in Paris? The weather says it is, but I want to make sure. Because if so, there's no point staying up.

 

[kskate2]

Nadal in 4

 

[Front242]

Only 14C (57F) in Paris right now. Pretty nippy for summer. Guess that can only help Ferrer who hits flatter with less spin though in terms of temperature it's far from ideal for either guy.

 

[Front242]

Also it's saying 27C and sunny on Friday which is good. Depending on which site you check (as they're all completely diff) some say cloudy/sunny Sunday for the final and 25C, others say 25C and rain/showers. All over the place really.

 

[tenisplayrla08]

So, I generally try not to get in to saying that players are being snubbed by being put on one court over another. But.... I mean, Rafa is an 8 time champion. I understand when they didn't put him on Chatrier earlier in the week when he was playing a nobody. And I understand that his record against Ferrer makes it seem like he'll win this match easily. But to put Murray v Monfils on Chatrier simply because Monfils is French is bogus. That match may end up being closer. Or it may not. Murray may walk right over him because Murray is more solid and Monfils likes to make to much of show which means going for low percentage shots, that he can't always pull off, despite pulling them off more often than less talented players. Maybe they think if they put him on a bigger stage, something we all know he loves, he'll rise to the occasion. But, let's not forget that Ferrer is also a finalist here. And Murray is, well, not. I'm sure they're not trying to snub Nadal and Ferrer on purpose. But their priorities are not exactly where they should be I think. I mean, yeah France wants a French winner for the first time since Noah. But, I imagine there are some French members of the Chatrier audience who would rather have seen Nadal v Ferrer. You know Ferrer will battle til the last ball at the very least. You can't expect that from Monfils. I guess it's not that big of a deal though. Nadal nor Ferrer will let a court placement affect them. And I guess Roland Garros knows they can do whatever they want because it's not like Nadal won't come back because of it.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Rafa should have put that ball away but great rally nonetheless.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

David returning really well so far.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa's bhand is being exposed by Ferrer

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

David gets his break in the 5th try. Deserved it too. he is initiating everything so far.

 

[Riotbeard]

Vamos Daveeeeed!

 

[Riotbeard]

Brilliant stuff from David.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Well, Rafa's serving poorly. So there's that. He's also looking like he's just hanging in there in every rally. I suspect the latter will change and he'll gain the ascension, but his serve is not going to improve this tournament. At least not significantly.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Most positive game from Rafa so far. First time he initiated some things.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Backhand really not working for Rafa. Simple rally backhands really...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Dreadful misses on the backhands (not that last one where he at least tried to go for it up the line, but the first two). I'd really love if it were somehow possible to get into Nadal's mind, because he's gotta be the most unconfident confident player I've ever seen (no, that wasn't a typo). I mean the guy has won 8 French Opens, yet he's hitting the ball nervously, and has been for a while during this clay season.

 

[crystalfire]

True I know what you mean

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Just sick, sick get from David. Wow...that was a classic banana from Rafa.