2013 US Open QF: Murray v Wawrinka

Who wins?

  • Murray in 3

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Murray in 4

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • Murray in 5

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Wawrinka in 3

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Wawrinka in 4

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • Wawrinka in 5

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Total voters
    16

masterclass

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Wow, I was correct. Stan Wawrinka did win in 3. And it looks like from the poll results, I was the only one to think that might happen. One can never be sure of course. Anything can happen in tennis. I guess I was fortunate to get one right.

Why, you may ask, did I think Stan would win in 3 sets?

1. Stan has always given Andy some trouble; he matches up pretty well with him.

2. Stan beat Andy in their last US Open match in 2010.

3. Stan demolished Andy at Monte Carlo this year. 1 & 2, though some may think this is irrelevant because it was on clay, it still showed me something.

4. I think Stan has been the better overall player on hard courts this year, despite Andy's win in Miami and early in Brisbane. Stan pushed Novak to the edge, losing a 5 set thriller at the Australian Open, and it was really anyone's match at the end.

5. It seemed to me that Wawrinka's level has gone up since last fall, while Murray's has gone down relatively speaking.

6. I have not seen the fire in Murray since he won Wimbledon, where he said that winning it would be the best thing he would ever achieve. I personally don't think that is a good attitude to have if you want to go on and achieve more. Maybe he'll get the fire back, maybe he won't.

7. Murray had 2 relatively poor matches in the lead up hard court events in Toronto and Cincinnati.
While he also didn't do so well last year in those events, and still won the US Open, last year he had a pretty good excuse. He had a tough Olympics, which he won. I think he needed the break that he got. This year, I think he needed to perform better in at least one of those masters, and he did not.

Wawrinka played a very intelligent match today against Murray. He really mixed it up. He played a fair amount of off-pace stuff, giving Murray some of his own medicine, then hit it hard from both wings. He tactically used the court well. He came to the net whenever he had a chance, even on some he shouldn't, but that looked part of the plan. All this mix caused Murray to not have a lot of rhythm.

Wawrinka served fairly well, but nothing spectacular. On return, he pretty much had Murray at his mercy whenever Murray sent in one of his pretty weak second serves. It was only a question of whether Wawrinka would keep the ball in play as he hammered the wounded duck.

Eventually, Murray started missing more and more of his first serves. Murray did not play that well off the ground, as it looked like Wawrinka's tactical mix threw him off. Only Andy's first serve kept him from having a worse 1st set score. Once Wawrinka started reading Murray's 1st serve better and Murray's first serve went off a bit, Murray didn't have much else on which to rely on, and Wawrinka pulled away to win in a not very close 3 sets.

The good news for Stan Wawrinka is that this effort should not have taken a great deal out of him, and he should be ready for his next match against Youzhny or Djokovic.

Congratulations to Stan Wawrinka and his fans. Commiserations to Andy Murray and his fans.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

kskate2

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Great assessment MC. You were spot on about how Stan approached the match and Andy's lack of rhythm.
 

rafanoy1992

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masterclass said:
Wow, I was correct. Stan Wawrinka did win in 3. And it looks like from the poll results, I was the only one to think that might happen. One can never be sure of course. Anything can happen in tennis. I guess I was fortunate to get one right.

Why, you may ask, did I think Stan would win in 3 sets?

1. Stan has always given Andy some trouble; he matches up pretty well with him.

2. Stan beat Andy in their last US Open match in 2010.

3. Stan demolished Andy at Monte Carlo this year. 1 & 2, though some may think this is irrelevant because it was on clay, it still showed me something.

4. I think Stan has been the better overall player on hard courts this year, despite Andy's win in Miami and early in Brisbane. Stan pushed Novak to the edge, losing a 5 set thriller at the Australian Open, and it was really anyone's match at the end.

5. It seemed to me that Wawrinka's level has gone up since last fall, while Murray's has gone down relatively speaking.

6. I have not seen the fire in Murray since he won Wimbledon, where he said that winning it would be the best thing he would ever achieve. I personally don't think that is a good attitude to have if you want to go on and achieve more. Maybe he'll get the fire back, maybe he won't.

7. Murray had 2 relatively poor matches in the lead up hard court events in Toronto and Cincinnati.
While he also didn't do so well last year in those events, and still won the US Open, last year he had a pretty good excuse. He had a tough Olympics, which he won. I think he needed the break that he got. This year, I think he needed to perform better in at least one of those masters, and he did not.

Wawrinka played a very intelligent match today against Murray. He really mixed it up. He played a fair amount of off-pace stuff, giving Murray some of his own medicine, then hit it hard from both wings. He tactically used the court well. He came to the net whenever he had a chance, even on some he shouldn't, but that looked part of the plan. All this mix caused Murray to not have a lot of rhythm.

Wawrinka served fairly well, but nothing spectacular. On return, he pretty much had Murray at his mercy whenever Murray sent in one of his pretty weak second serves. It was only a question of whether Wawrinka would keep the ball in play as he hammered the wounded duck.

Eventually, Murray started missing more and more of his first serves. Murray did not play that well off the ground, as it looked like Wawrinka's tactical mix threw him off. Only Andy's first serve kept him from having a worse 1st set score. Once Wawrinka started reading Murray's 1st serve better and Murray's first serve went off a bit, Murray didn't have much else on which to rely on, and Wawrinka pulled away to win in a not very close 3 sets.

The good news for Stan Wawrinka is that this effort should not have taken a great deal out of him, and he should be ready for his next match against Youzhny or Djokovic.

Congratulations to Stan Wawrinka and his fans. Commiserations to Andy Murray and his fans.

Respectfully,
masterclass

I agree with all your points except Number 4. I don't think Stan is an overall better hard court player this year than Murray. The record speaks itself. Murray won Brisbane, Miami and reach the Australian Open final losing to the champion Novak Djokovic.

As for Wawrinka, before this tournament, his best result in a hard-court is the Round of 16. Other than that, he hasn't really been spectacular on hard courts.

So, I don't really know where did you get the idea that Stan is a better hard court player this year than Murray.
 

GameSetAndMath

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I called it Wawrinka in four yesterday based on exactly the same reasons outlined
by mc. I am surprised Andy, the future king of tennis and the dunblane warrior, could
not manage to win a set.
 

brokenshoelace

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Masterclass, with all due respect, saying "maybe Murray won't get the fire back" is a HUGE stretch. The man is 26, he's only won two slams. Do you really think he might go his entire career (which, provided he remains injury free, we're talking about AT least 6-7 more years) without getting his fire back? Yeah, I'll be skeptical about that. This is a bit of an overreaction to a loss.
 

DarthFed

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Stan must have already passed Roger in YTD points. I'm happy Stan won as the new, or soon to be #2 Swiss player might use this as motivation. This also figures to put Nole and Rafa on equal footing for the draw.
 

DarthFed

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Masterclass, with all due respect, saying "maybe Murray won't get the fire back" is a HUGE stretch. The man is 26, he's only won two slams. Do you really think he might go his entire career (which, provided he remains injury free, we're talking about AT least 6-7 more years) without getting his fire back? Yeah, I'll be skeptical about that. This is a bit of an overreaction to a loss.

Agreed, I am not surprised to see Murray have a little bit of a lull after winning Wimbledon. Wimbledon is more than just a slam for Murray and he also won the USO and Olympics in the past year. Murray will be fine going forward and I'd figure he will be aiming hard to win the YEC.
 

I.Haychew

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Nice match by Wawrinka. Didn't think he'd win, much less by a scoreline like that.
 

Iona16

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GameSetAndMath said:
I called it Wawrinka in four yesterday based on exactly the same reasons outlined
by mc. I am surprised Andy, the future king of tennis and the dunblane warrior, could
not manage to win a set.

Yep, because a player just can't have a bad day. Nothing worse than gloating fans.

Seriously some of the comments on here from various posters are absolutely laughable.

Not going to pretend I'm not gutted. Andy didn't turn up today. His serve and return were off but credit to Stan. He played a blinder as they say. He deserved the win.

Signing off now as it's after 11pm here and I have work tomorrow.

BTW I hate to disappoint some of you but Andy won't be retiring after this loss. He'll be back stronger.
 

Front242

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Iona16 said:
GameSetAndMath said:
I called it Wawrinka in four yesterday based on exactly the same reasons outlined
by mc. I am surprised Andy, the future king of tennis and the dunblane warrior, could
not manage to win a set.

Yep, because a player just can't have a bad day. Nothing worse than gloating fans.

Don't really think he was gloating. Just as many people thought it was strange Fed couldn't muster a set against Robredo too. Even most of those who can't stand Fed would attest they'd have thought he'd win a set. Besides isabelle of course but even then there was no conviction in her prediction as it was all a "maybe". So someone saying it's a surprise Andy couldn't win a set is just that. A surprise.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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andy had a physcological flop after his amazing 2012-2013..

2012 all time classic close loss to djokovic in SF..

2012 FIRST UK WIMBy finalist since before the beginning of time..runs fed to the edge for 2 sets..

Olympic gold and silver medals..nice work andy old bean :D

2012 u s open champion :clap nuff said..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2013 aust open final..

2013..wins atp250 tourney at queens:plot

2013 Wimbledon champion :p:cool::D

2012- 2013 wins masters titles goes to no 2 world rank..but blows chance to be world no 1 rank last autumn by losing shaghai final to novak and by letting novak win World tour finals.

so losing here isn't such a big deal..and stan the gran did play v good tennis.
 

masterclass

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Thanks for your comments. :)

As far as rafanoy1992 and others who believe Andy has played better overall on hard courts than Stan, you are probably correct. :)

I may have placed too much value on the Australian Open where I firmly believe Stan played better than Andy, even though Andy made it to the final. They both lost to the eventual winner Djokovic, but I believe Stan's match was much better. Of course that could also have something to do with Novak and the relative match-ups.

As far as the others that think my statement about Andy maybe losing his fire after winning Wimbledon is a "HUGE stretch" or something akin to that... I said I hadn't seen the same fire from Andy since he won it. That's my personal perception. And then I said, "Maybe he'll get the fire back, maybe he won't." I don't see anything amiss with this statement. How am I to know one way or another?

Let me put it this way; I certainly hope he does get it going again. I hope his results post Wimbledon are only a lull as DarthFed says. He usually does fairly well indoors, let's see how that turns out, at least until next year's majors.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

Iona16

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Front242 said:
Iona16 said:
GameSetAndMath said:
I called it Wawrinka in four yesterday based on exactly the same reasons outlined
by mc. I am surprised Andy, the future king of tennis and the dunblane warrior, could
not manage to win a set.

Yep, because a player just can't have a bad day. Nothing worse than gloating fans.

Don't really think he was gloating. Just as many people thought it was strange Fed couldn't muster a set against Robredo too. Even most of those who can't stand Fed would attest they'd have thought he'd win a set. Besides isabelle of course but even then there was no conviction in her prediction as it was all a "maybe". So someone saying it's a surprise Andy couldn't win a set is just that. A surprise.

Seriously? I think the inclusion of the 'future king of tennis' and 'dunblane warrior' comments said it all. For the record I've never called Andy either of those things. That was Clay Death who has disappeared from the boards. I never feel the need to gloat and I always feel quite sad that people feel it's warranted.

Anyway, really am signing off now.
 

brokenshoelace

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masterclass said:
Thanks for your comments. :)

As far as rafanoy1992 and others who believe Andy has played better overall on hard courts than Stan, you are probably correct. :)

I may have placed too much value on the Australian Open where I firmly believe Stan played better than Andy, even though Andy made it to the final. They both lost to the eventual winner Djokovic, but I believe Stan's match was much better. Of course that could also have something to do with Novak and the relative match-ups.

As far as the others that think my statement about Andy maybe losing his fire after winning Wimbledon is a "HUGE stretch" or something akin to that... I said I hadn't seen the same fire from Andy since he won it. That's my personal perception. And then I said, "Maybe he'll get the fire back, maybe he won't." I don't see anything amiss with this statement. How am I to know one way or another?

Let me put it this way; I certainly hope he does get it going again. I hope his results post Wimbledon are only a lull as DarthFed says. He usually does fairly well indoors, let's see how that turns out, at least until next year's majors.

Respectfully,
masterclass

The reason I nit-picked that particular statement is the "maybe he won't" part. I just don't see how one can consider this a realistic possibility, since it's based on absolutely nothing. Just my two cents.
 

Andrew William

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Was this seriously up for debate? Wawrinka being better than Murray on hards? Maybe on planet Mars....
 

masterclass

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Broken_Shoelace said:
The reason I nit-picked that particular statement is the "maybe he won't" part. I just don't see how one can consider this a realistic possibility, since it's based on absolutely nothing. Just my two cents.

Hmm, nothing for you maybe, but for me, it's based on his comment post Wimbledon, which I mentioned I did not like, and the results and his play since then. He seems different to me. I definitely hope he gets his mojo back. It's more entertaining when he plays well.

Same goes for Mr. Federer, or anyone else that has been having a tough time of it.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

GameSetAndMath

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Iona16 said:
GameSetAndMath said:
I called it Wawrinka in four yesterday based on exactly the same reasons outlined
by mc. I am surprised Andy, the future king of tennis and the dunblane warrior, could
not manage to win a set.

Yep, because a player just can't have a bad day. Nothing worse than gloating fans.

Seriously some of the comments on here from various posters are absolutely laughable.

Not going to pretend I'm not gutted. Andy didn't turn up today. His serve and return were off but credit to Stan. He played a blinder as they say. He deserved the win.

Signing off now as it's after 11pm here and I have work tomorrow.

BTW I hate to disappoint some of you but Andy won't be retiring after this loss. He'll be back stronger.

I don't understand why my response is construed as gloating. For the record, I am
a Fed fan and as all of us know he lost miserably. Also, I picked JMDP to win USO and
he got out in second round itself. These things do happen in sports. Nothing is permanent
and Nobody is unbeatable. Besides, if it were the case, we would not be watching
tennis either. Take it easy and have some Irish Scoth; you will get over it in couple of days.
 

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Iona16 said:
Front242 said:
Iona16 said:
GameSetAndMath said:
I called it Wawrinka in four yesterday based on exactly the same reasons outlined
by mc. I am surprised Andy, the future king of tennis and the dunblane warrior, could
not manage to win a set.

Yep, because a player just can't have a bad day. Nothing worse than gloating fans.

Don't really think he was gloating. Just as many people thought it was strange Fed couldn't muster a set against Robredo too. Even most of those who can't stand Fed would attest they'd have thought he'd win a set. Besides isabelle of course but even then there was no conviction in her prediction as it was all a "maybe". So someone saying it's a surprise Andy couldn't win a set is just that. A surprise.

Seriously? I think the inclusion of the 'future king of tennis' and 'dunblane warrior' comments said it all. For the record I've never called Andy either of those things. That was Clay Death who has disappeared from the boards. I never feel the need to gloat and I always feel quite sad that people feel it's warranted.

Anyway, really am signing off now.

TBH, I read it that it was CD that Front was making fun of.
 

Front242

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I wasn't making fun of anyone. Something very mixed up here. Hmmm.
 

britbox

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Knee jerk reactions to Murray's loss. He'll be fine. He's nursing a Wimbledon hangover, lacking a little intensity and ran into an on-fire wake up call by the name of Stan.