2013 French Open SF: Nadal vs. Djokovic

[huntingyou]

Also, with Djokovic losing, Rod Laver will have some champagne tonight because he still the only male player to win a Calendar Slam in the Open Era. Here's another interesting fact, the last time a player won Australian Open and French Open in the same year was in 1992. Jim Courier did the feat. Maybe, the Australian Open - French Open double is the toughest feat to accomplish after all.

The French with any other Slam it's always difficult.

For example, I think Wilander is the last player outside Nadal to win RG/UO in the 80s. You already know only 4 players in the open era have won the channel Slam.

SW19/UO seems to be the most common for a player that manage to win 2+ slams in the same year.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Djokovic blew it at 4-2. He never should have allowed the gnat to stay in the match at that point.

Now this makes the victory so much sweeter

Of course, the gnat was the better player for the better part of the match, should have ended it when he served for the match in the 4th set (after having already blown a break in the same set), and redlined his game in the fifth to actually outplay Novak who had finally gotten his act together in that set, after playing a shaky match up until that point. I guess it's too much to ask for you to give credit where credit is due.

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Hey BS.. I am quite sure that you are happy that one of my predictions came true.

Thrilled, actually

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OK, reading the comments above I'm wondering: Am I the only one who saw Nadal playing a sensational fifth set, hitting winners from everywhere on the court from both sides? There was a stretch in the middle of the set where virtually every point he was winning was a winner. I've never seen him hit his DTL forehand so well since 2008.

 

[lindseywagners]

If history has its cyclical nature dialed in, next year they will meet again in the final and Djokovic will win in 5 sets. Just like Nadal tagged Federer in his third attempt at Wimbledon, after first losing in four, then in five, then winning in five.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Cali has a point. That was the critical game. if Novak had gone to 5-3 then Nadal would have either be serving or receiving to stay in the match - which brings it's own set of pressures.

Of course Cali conveniently ignored the fourth set. When brought up, he mentioned that Novak broke Nadal with his "shotmaking" with no mention that Nadal essentially broke himself at 4-3, serving to make it 5-3 in the 4th.

I agree Novak played an abysmal final game, which may have been due to emotional/physical fatigue, or something else, but Nadal was the better player for the majority of that match.

 

[huntingyou]

what about the tweener lob?

Novak has an horrible overhead, maybe Nadal should try to lob more by hitting short and drawing Novak in. His only weakness as far as I can see one.

 

[calitennis127]

Cali has a point. That was the critical game. if Novak had gone to 5-3 then Nadal would have either be serving or receiving to stay in the match - which brings it's own set of pressures.

Of course Cali conveniently ignored the fourth set. When brought up, he mentioned that Novak broke Nadal with his "shotmaking" with no mention that Nadal essentially broke himself at 4-3, serving to make it 5-3 in the 4th.

I agree Novak played an abysmal final game, which may have been due to emotional/physical fatigue, or something else, but Nadal was the better player for the majority of that match.

Please, get out of here. Djokovic's shotmaking at the tail end of the 4th was sublime. His returns were pinpoint. He was producing a level of shotmaking I have NEVER seen from Nadal - nothing even close.

 

[Riotbeard]

Cali has a point. That was the critical game. if Novak had gone to 5-3 then Nadal would have either be serving or receiving to stay in the match - which brings it's own set of pressures.

Of course Cali conveniently ignored the fourth set. When brought up, he mentioned that Novak broke Nadal with his "shotmaking" with no mention that Nadal essentially broke himself at 4-3, serving to make it 5-3 in the 4th.

I agree Novak played an abysmal final game, which may have been due to emotional/physical fatigue, or something else, but Nadal was the better player for the majority of that match.

Please, get out of here. Djokovic's shotmaking at the tail end of the 4th was sublime. His returns were pinpoint. He was producing a level of shotmaking I have NEVER seen from Nadal - nothing even close.

Agreed Novak returns in particular were out of this world in those games. Don't agree with the get out of here sentiments just that Novak took back the fourth set with some brilliant play that got in the head of nadal for a nice little while.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Yes, his shotmaking in the 4th set (meaning ONE set) makes him the better player in a FIVE set match. Cali logic. The better player today one, and of course you'll ignore that Nadal made double the amounts of winners Djokovic did in that final sets, including some winners that dwarf anything Djokovic hit in that 4th. Anyway, I'll just wait for the highlight reel and prove my point.

That pedestrian forehand isn't too shabby after all, eh?

 

[Riotbeard]

Yes, his shotmaking in the 4th set (meaning ONE set) makes him the better player in a FIVE set match. Cali logic. The better player today one, and of course you'll ignore that Nadal made double the amounts of winners Djokovic did in that final sets, including some winners that dwarf anything Djokovic hit in that 4th. Anyway, I'll just wait for the highlight reel and prove my point.

That pedestrian forehand isn't too shabby after all, eh?

I am not on with everything cali said. Rafa hit some absolutely brilliant winners today, in fact he hit a ton. Novak can do a thing or two, and I think he took back the fourth with his shotmaking, just like rafa got back the break in the fifth with some absolutely brilliant play.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Djokovic blew it at 4-2. He never should have allowed the gnat to stay in the match at that point.

Now this makes the victory so much sweeter

Of course, the gnat was the better player for the better part of the match, should have ended it when he served for the match in the 4th set (after having already blown a break in the same set), and redlined his game in the fifth to actually outplay Novak who had finally gotten his act together in that set, after playing a shaky match up until that point. I guess it's too much to ask for you to give credit where credit is due.

---

Hey BS.. I am quite sure that you are happy that one of my predictions came true.

Thrilled, actually

---

OK, reading the comments above I'm wondering: Am I the only one who saw Nadal playing a sensational fifth set, hitting winners from everywhere on the court from both sides? There was a stretch in the middle of the set where virtually every point he was winning was a winner. I've never seen him hit his DTL forehand so well since 2008.

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Rafa DLT forehand was superb.. Djoker actually played the big points at times better but Rafa was the over aggressor with 61 winners, 44 UFE and 176 total pts..

 

[brokenshoelace]

Yes, his shotmaking in the 4th set (meaning ONE set) makes him the better player in a FIVE set match. Cali logic. The better player today one, and of course you'll ignore that Nadal made double the amounts of winners Djokovic did in that final sets, including some winners that dwarf anything Djokovic hit in that 4th. Anyway, I'll just wait for the highlight reel and prove my point.

That pedestrian forehand isn't too shabby after all, eh?

I am not on with everything cali said. Rafa hit some absolutely brilliant winners today, in fact he hit a ton. Novak can do a thing or two, and I think he took back the fourth with his shotmaking, just like rafa got back the break in the fifth with some absolutely brilliant play.

My reply was to Cali, obviously. Anyway, my point was not who was the more talented player overall (which Cali refuses to accept that it's near irrelevant), but who played better and more offensive in this particular match. For the most part, it was Nadal.

I love how many are bringing up the poor games Novak played to get broken, but forget the abysmal opening service game of the fifth that Nadal played. It was the only thing that made the fifth set -- in which Nadal was clearly the better player -- so tight.

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By the way, Nadal had 61 winners to Novak's 54. He also had 44 unforced errors to Novak's 75. Many of Novak's winners were set up by his serve, and aided by Rafa's awful return in the middle of the court.

Now of course, for people who know a thing or two about tennis, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I felt the need to bring it up for Cali, who doesn't consider the serve as part of talent, and therefore, many of Novak's 1-2 punches that were aided by his serve shouldn't be that impressive (in his logic, of course).

 

[calitennis127]

Yes, his shotmaking in the 4th set (meaning ONE set) makes him the better player in a FIVE set match. Cali logic.

No, I am saying he is a more talented tennis player, period, whether it is one set, five sets, or ten sets.

The better player today one, and of course you'll ignore that Nadal made double the amounts of winners Djokovic did in that final sets, including some winners that dwarf anything Djokovic hit in that 4th.

Completely disagree on the "dwarfing" part. Also, as always, you are completely blind to the emotional aspect of the game. Djokovic had Nadal down early in the 5th, but then he let up in intensity and started becoming more tentative. It was that drop that opened up the match for the gnat, who is always at a consistent level of mental exertion. That is just the way he is.

That pedestrian forehand isn't too shabby after all, eh?

Djokovic dictated the rallies in the 4th and 5th sets with HIS forehand, LOL. Djokovic's forehand was clearly the superior shot.

As always, you misdiagnose why Nadal wins these types of matches. Fundamentally, it isn't about him hitting penetrating shots so much as complicating the opponent's offense. Then, after persisting in this style, he hits a couple opportunistic winners that makes the likes of you think that he wins with shotmaking at this level.

But then, I am expecting a level of understanding from you that I cannot.

Just enjoy the matches - I know you like tennis!

 

[huntingyou]

I know Rafa's forehand was super but what about the backhand in the 5 set? There were a couple deuce and 30 all games on his serve that could have gone the other way if it wasn't for Nadal's backhand winners/force error while defending from that corner.

Once we get the highlights, It will be easier to point out how fantastic that 5th set was.....extremely high level.

for the record, Novak is NOT more talented than Nadal.......that much it's clear. Nadal's forehand and ability to keep points alive are unique to him, period.

 

[brokenshoelace]

But then, I am expecting a level of understanding from you that I cannot.

Just enjoy the matches - I know you like tennis!

I don't understand lunacy, so yeah, please do not expect that.

And of course I enjoy the matches. I cannot say the same for you on the other hand, since Nadal has been winning virtually everything since his return. Suicide watch already? The mental breakdowns you get every time he wins a big match are honestly hilarious.

Anyway, don't worry, he won't be winning as much in the second half of the season. Hang in there.

 

[Riotbeard]

Yes, his shotmaking in the 4th set (meaning ONE set) makes him the better player in a FIVE set match. Cali logic. The better player today one, and of course you'll ignore that Nadal made double the amounts of winners Djokovic did in that final sets, including some winners that dwarf anything Djokovic hit in that 4th. Anyway, I'll just wait for the highlight reel and prove my point.

That pedestrian forehand isn't too shabby after all, eh?

I am not on with everything cali said. Rafa hit some absolutely brilliant winners today, in fact he hit a ton. Novak can do a thing or two, and I think he took back the fourth with his shotmaking, just like rafa got back the break in the fifth with some absolutely brilliant play.

My reply was to Cali, obviously. Anyway, my point was not who was the more talented player overall (which Cali refuses to accept that it's near irrelevant), but who played better and more offensive in this particular match. For the most part, it was Nadal.

I love how many are bringing up the poor games Novak played to get broken, but forget the abysmal opening service game of the fifth that Nadal played. It was the only thing that made the fifth set -- in which Nadal was clearly the better player -- so tight.

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By the way, Nadal had 61 winners to Novak's 54. He also had 44 unforced errors to Novak's 75. Many of Novak's winners were set up by his serve, and aided by Rafa's awful return in the middle of the court.

Now of course, for people who know a thing or two about tennis, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I felt the need to bring it up for Cali, who doesn't consider the serve as part of talent, and therefore, many of Novak's 1-2 punches that were aided by his serve shouldn't be that impressive (in his logic, of course).

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I am gonna let you guys have it out, but Rafa DTL forehand was unquestionably brilliant today, so many times I saw novak hit a crosscourt backhand and just sighed knowing what rafa was about to do to it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Completely disagree on the "dwarfing" part. Also, as always, you are completely blind to the emotional aspect of the game. Djokovic had Nadal down early in the 5th, but then he let up in intensity and started becoming more tentative. It was that drop that opened up the match for the gnat, who is always at a consistent level of mental exertion. That is just the way he is.

Yes, but of course, the emotional aspect doesn't apply the other way around, when Nadal served for the match, failed to finish it, and the momentum shifted. Or when he got broken back, then broke again in the 2nd set.

Djokovic dictated the rallies in the 4th and 5th sets with HIS forehand, LOL. Djokovic's forehand was clearly the superior shot.

So superior that Nadal made double the amount of winners that Djokovic did in the fifth.

As always, you misdiagnose why Nadal wins these types of matches. Fundamentally, it isn't about him hitting penetrating shots so much as complicating the opponent's offense. Then, after persisting in this style, he hits a couple opportunistic winners that makes the likes of you and hunting4aclue think that he wins with shotmaking at this level.

This would be a great argument if it wasn't for the fact that Djokovic wasn't dictating much for the first 4 sets, and Nadal's forehand was dominating. Then, late in the fourth and early in the fifth, Novak upped his level.

The thing that bothers me the most about arguing with you is how easy it is to make your arguments look pathetic.

 

[calitennis127]

I find it very funny how Djokovic consistently dictated so many points with his forehand in the 4th and 5th sets, yet here we are talking about "Nadal's amazing forehand" some more.

Does anyone understand why he wins these matches? Seriously?

I had the misfortune of listening to "Radio Roland Garros" for about 20 minutes during the 5th set on my iPhone. The match was being called by a British woman and a male American commentator (I think it was Courier, but I may be wrong). Whoever the latter bonehead was, I eventually just had to shut the broadcast off because I couldn't take the trivial stupidity of his analysis for another moment. He was sitting there breaking down all of these supposedly huge tactical mistakes Nadal was making - as if Nadal himself was even thinking of matters that specifically on a second-by-second basis.

"What will Nadal do with his backhand return the next time Novak hits him a second serve?!?!" Yada yada yada. I was simply thinking "would you please shut up?" He was acting like Nadal was just a) completely out of the match and b) this was because of stupid tactics. On both counts, he was laughably wrong.

But, alas, this is the type of petty analysis that all too many apply in trying to understand these matches.

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And of course I enjoy the matches. I cannot say the same for you on the other hand, since Nadal has been winning virtually everything since his return.

I was the one who was saying back at Vina del Mar that everything was fine and in tact, while you had "questions" and "needed to see more".

Maybe I just see things quicker?

The mental breakdowns you get every time he wins a big match are honestly hilarious.

It's more so frustration at the BS way in which he wins matches against the other top players.

Anyway, don't worry, he won't be winning as much in the second half of the season. Hang in there.

Even with that forehand?

(But, I do agree. )

 

[SF Nadalite]

I had the misfortune of listening to "Radio Roland Garros" for about 20 minutes during the 5th set on my iPhone. The match was being called by a British woman and a male American commentator (I think it was Courier, but I may be wrong). Whoever the latter bonehead was, I eventually just had to shut the broadcast off because I couldn't take the trivial stupidity of his analysis for another moment. .

it couldn't have been worse than Justin Gimelstob....

 

[calitennis127]

I had the misfortune of listening to "Radio Roland Garros" for about 20 minutes during the 5th set on my iPhone. The match was being called by a British woman and a male American commentator (I think it was Courier, but I may be wrong). Whoever the latter bonehead was, I eventually just had to shut the broadcast off because I couldn't take the trivial stupidity of his analysis for another moment. .

it couldn't have been worse than Justin Gimelstob....

LOL....why is everyone so hard on Gimelstob?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa I just have these few words to say to you after this epic match
You aged me 100 years
Anyway Vamos Rafa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!