2013 French Open SF: Nadal vs. Djokovic

[DarthFed]

DarthFed, we must be on the same page about Wimbledon 08- if Roger failed miserably at Wimbledon 08, as you say, then it certainly cannot be the greatest match of all time, which wouldn't involve either player doing anything miserably. (Can you tell that it still annoys the heck out of me when people call it that?

Cosmo let's just say I am a competitive person. Some might say too competitive. In a one on one sport there are no B's, C's and D's, just A's and F's. Roger did a lot wrong in that final and was tough half the time and weak the other half. So that's where the "failure" part comes in. There are bound to be parallels drawn between that match and 2008 Wimbledon. Rafa stepped up and survived the challenge while Roger didn't. Simple as that.

The hell is up with your avatar? Did you lose a bet?

How'd you guess. I bet Didi that Nadal would win the 4th set after winning the 3rd so easily. Djoker winning the 4th is why you don't see him with a Paris Hilton avatar.

That's hilarious! How long do you have to endure this 'indignity'? And how'd you get yourself roped into betting FOR Nadal? I'd have liked Rafa to have won in 4, but now I'm really sorry we don't get the Paris Hilton avatar.

Didi never said how long we would have to keep the avatar so I will go ahead and say 10 days! It seemed like an easy bet after the 3rd and obviously I was happy to lose the bet at the time. The problem is the worst case scenario played out, lost bet and Nadal won the 5th.

 

[Moxie]

Hi Moxie! I know you were happy yesterday!

I wouldn't have ever used those words - I know that Roger fought hard. I was more (trying) to make kinda the same point as you - that people can't have it both ways - either it was the greatest, or Roger failed miserably. I can't remember if DarthFed ever called it the greatest or not, but I know that a lot of people do. If you remember, my view was that people called it the greatest only because Nadal won, so if people now say that Roger failed, I'm like, aha! I knew you were looking only at RN when you called it the greatest.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that DarthFed said that. But I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if I heard, say, JMAC say it.

Anyway, old news, haha! I hope you won't mind if I pull against your boy tomorrow - gotta support Roger's fellow geriatrics, you know!

I was happy, honey, thanks! And I'm perfectly fine with Roger and Nole fans that root against Nadal...it's the nature of fandom. And in this case, it has you rooting for a guy I like a lot, Ferrer, so - all good!

I often do think of your question: If Nadal hadn't won Wimbledon 08, would it have been the Greatest Match of all Time? And I think it's a fair question, but I think the answer keeps coming back...yes. There are a few other matches in contention, but I watched that match live, meaning I didn't know who would win, and it was a thriller. I've rarely or never seen a match so full of fine shots, and drama.

But the ship has sailed on that one, too. The commentators love to call it the Greatest. And now they're liking to call this RG SF one of the greatest, too. We'll see how that really plays out.

Moxie, John McEnroe has pointed out that Nadal has arguably been in three of the Greatest matches in the Open Era. 2008 Wimbledon Final, 2012 Australian Open Final, and 2013 Roland Garros Semifinal. All we need now is to have Nadal play a fifth set tiebreaker in the US Open Final to complete the set!

By the way, Moxie how did you handle watching the Wimby final live? Man, that was nerve wrecking match for me!

I am going to start a poll about greatest matches. Anyway, I think there are reasons that Nadal seems to feature in them: a) he's a great player, and has played a lot of finals against great players, b) he likes to dig in and play long. 5-set matches are almost by definition dramatic, and he has no fear of them.

Darth, I was also a mess watching that match live, especially in the last 3 sets. I'm absolutely sure I didn't sit down at any point in the 5th. I saw your point about either you make and "A" grade, in tennis, or an "F," but still, that match was a thriller. Somebody had to lose. But they both played, for much of the match, as if their lives depended on it. The Djokovic/Nadal SF was more in and out, IMO. With both of those matches, it could have gone either way. But with Fed/Nadal, it really did come down almost to the last second. Because of the changes of fortunes, it felt almost shockingly quick when it finally ended.

 

[DarthFed]

Hi Moxie! I know you were happy yesterday!

I wouldn't have ever used those words - I know that Roger fought hard. I was more (trying) to make kinda the same point as you - that people can't have it both ways - either it was the greatest, or Roger failed miserably. I can't remember if DarthFed ever called it the greatest or not, but I know that a lot of people do. If you remember, my view was that people called it the greatest only because Nadal won, so if people now say that Roger failed, I'm like, aha! I knew you were looking only at RN when you called it the greatest.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that DarthFed said that. But I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if I heard, say, JMAC say it.

Anyway, old news, haha! I hope you won't mind if I pull against your boy tomorrow - gotta support Roger's fellow geriatrics, you know!

I was happy, honey, thanks! And I'm perfectly fine with Roger and Nole fans that root against Nadal...it's the nature of fandom. And in this case, it has you rooting for a guy I like a lot, Ferrer, so - all good!

I often do think of your question: If Nadal hadn't won Wimbledon 08, would it have been the Greatest Match of all Time? And I think it's a fair question, but I think the answer keeps coming back...yes. There are a few other matches in contention, but I watched that match live, meaning I didn't know who would win, and it was a thriller. I've rarely or never seen a match so full of fine shots, and drama.

But the ship has sailed on that one, too. The commentators love to call it the Greatest. And now they're liking to call this RG SF one of the greatest, too. We'll see how that really plays out.

Moxie, John McEnroe has pointed out that Nadal has arguably been in three of the Greatest matches in the Open Era. 2008 Wimbledon Final, 2012 Australian Open Final, and 2013 Roland Garros Semifinal. All we need now is to have Nadal play a fifth set tiebreaker in the US Open Final to complete the set!

By the way, Moxie how did you handle watching the Wimby final live? Man, that was nerve wrecking match for me!

I am going to start a poll about greatest matches. Anyway, I think there are reasons that Nadal seems to feature in them: a) he's a great player, and has played a lot of finals against great players, b) he likes to dig in and play long. 5-set matches are almost by definition dramatic, and he has no fear of them.

Darth, I was also a mess watching that match live, especially in the last 3 sets. I'm absolutely sure I didn't sit down at any point in the 5th. I saw your point about either you make and "A" grade, in tennis, or an "F," but still, that match was a thriller. Somebody had to lose. But they both played, for much of the match, as if their lives depended on it. The Djokovic/Nadal SF was more in and out, IMO. With both of those matches, it could have gone either way. But with Fed/Nadal, it really did come down almost to the last second. Because of the changes of fortunes, it felt almost shockingly quick when it finally ended.

The Wimbledon final was just as up and down and that often gets lost when discussing it. Fed lost the first 2 sets easily (not sure he won a single big point the entire first 2 sets aside from his lone break of the match). And his uninspired play carried over to the start of the 3rd until he finally dug in and made a match of it. Rafa gagged in the 4th set tiebreak and that pushed it to the 5th. Roger was Jekyll and Hyde that match. He had the big parts of his game going strong the last few sets, that being the serve and forehand. Everything else was pretty bad start to finish.

 

[Didi]

Darth, you do look very good with Rafa next to you. I was praying for Djoker to win the tiebreaker. I think one week till next friday is enough as I can imagine how hard it must be for you but you earned my respect. You took it like a man. Brett Favre would be proud.

 

[Johnsteinbeck]

fun fact: the match had just as many games as the AO, but was about an hour shorter. timing enforcement sure plays a role in that, but i think it's also a reminder of how ridiculously slow the courts at the AO have become, no?

 

[DarthFed]

Darth, you do look very good with Rafa next to you. I was praying for Djoker to win the tiebreaker. I think one week till next friday is enough as I can imagine how hard it must be for you but you earned my respect. You took it like a man. Brett Favre would be proud.

Well I wouldn't want to do anything to make Brett Favre proud :snigger

This is no big deal at all. I always pay my debts and I wasn't going to half-ass the avatar. I figured it'd only be right to subject myself to him biting one of his damn trophies.

 

[kskate2]

Didi,
You are too lenient on him. He should have to sport that avatar through the next slam. Don't you think that would be great? Rooting for Fed at his fave tournament w/ Rafa right next to him? :idea:

 

[brokenshoelace]

fun fact: the match had just as many games as the AO, but was about an hour shorter. timing enforcement sure plays a role in that, but i think it's also a reminder of how ridiculously slow the courts at the AO have become, no?

Yes about the timing enforcement, and not really about the second part. Indian Wells and Miami are significantly slower than AO, for instance. Australian Open is a medium paced court. I really don't know where this narrative is coming from.

 

[DarthFed]

Didi,
You are too lenient on him. He should have to sport that avatar through the next slam. Don't you think that would be great? Rooting for Fed at his fave tournament w/ Rafa right next to him? :idea:

Wow, KS is an ice queen I did not agree to a full month sentence.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Darth, you do look very good with Rafa next to you. I was praying for Djoker to win the tiebreaker. I think one week till next friday is enough as I can imagine how hard it must be for you but you earned my respect. You took it like a man. Brett Favre would be proud.

I always pay my debts

Is your last name "Lannister" by a chance?

 

[DarthFed]

Darth, you do look very good with Rafa next to you. I was praying for Djoker to win the tiebreaker. I think one week till next friday is enough as I can imagine how hard it must be for you but you earned my respect. You took it like a man. Brett Favre would be proud.

I always pay my debts

Is your last name "Lannister" by a chance?

I wish man! Greatest family ever!!

 

[Moxie]

Some tennis players (current and ex-) tweet about this match. Fun read, but the best was from Murray:

http://tennis.si.com/2013/06/07/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-twitter-french-open/?sct=obnetwork

 

[Didi]

Some tennis players (current and ex-) tweet about this match. Fun read, but the best was from Murray:

http://tennis.si.com/2013/06/07/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-twitter-french-open/?sct=obnetwork

The Murray one is great indeed. There are also some fake facebook/twitter reactions made just for fun, usually after finals of Slams or Masters. After there were some fake ones from Jerzy Janowicz after Nadal had won his 8th RG, ranting and swearing: How many times, how many times is this freak going to win Roland Garros? How many times, Rafa??? I know it's become an old and washed out running gag by now but it's still kind of fitting.

 

[tented]

Some tennis players (current and ex-) tweet about this match. Fun read, but the best was from Murray:

http://tennis.si.com/2013/06/07/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-twitter-french-open/?sct=obnetwork

:laydownlaughing I didn't realize Murray had such a great sense of humor.

I also enjoyed Kuerten's, mainly because it's fun to get proof that these guys still watch and care, especially a former multiple RG champion.

 

[Denis]

Congrats to Nadal, Kieran and his fans for Nadals record 8th title at RG. Happy Novak could push him, sad he lost but good things to take from the match.

 

[Kieran]

Congrats to Nadal, Kieran and his fans for Nadals record 8th title at RG. Happy Novak could push him, sad he lost but good things to take from the match.

I'll take your congrats in the spirit you intend! I mean, I didn't post during the slam, and he won! He owes me big time.

Also, during the Nole match, my missus was working next door during the first set, she came in at 3-2 Rafa in the second and left soon as that set ended. She came back in when Rafa was up a break in the fourth. Quickly he slid to 1-3 in the 5th.

I was fidgety but something had to give. I turned to her, called her a fricking Jonah, and told her to get outta the room. She did, he won, thanks to me again! :snigger

 

[Denis]

^ I do that quite often too, those little supersticious things that might help your player. I barely saw the Wimbledon 2011 final because I thought I was jinxing it by watching the match. That worked too

Only this time I didn't see the match and that clearly didn't work :S . Oh well, I am all excited about Wimbledon 2013, let's see if we can get yet another epic battle!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Just a note about a comment above, Johnny Mac is on crack if he thinks this match is among the top 3 in the open era. It was a GREAT match, and the fifth set was of the highest quality, but this one wasn't even match of the year (see Djokovic vs. Wawrinka). I'm not sure if this match is in Rafa's top 3 (the Verdasco match for example is easily better).

 

[Kieran]

Just a note about a comment above, Johnny Mac is on crack if he thinks this match is among the top 3 in the open era. It was a GREAT match, and the fifth set was of the highest quality, but this one wasn't even match of the year (see Djokovic vs. Wawrinka). I'm not sure if this match is in Rafa's top 3 (the Verdasco match for example is easily better).

Yeah, it's a huge stretch and flight of fancy to say it's top 3. People lose the head. In fact, it wasn't a great match until the fifth. The fifth set was a great dramatic set, but other than this? Nah...

 

[tented]

Just a note about a comment above, Johnny Mac is on crack if he thinks this match is among the top 3 in the open era. It was a GREAT match, and the fifth set was of the highest quality, but this one wasn't even match of the year (see Djokovic vs. Wawrinka). I'm not sure if this match is in Rafa's top 3 (the Verdasco match for example is easily better).

Agreed. McEnroe is, essentially, a newspaper salesman when it comes to these things: whatever is happening right now is the greatest thing ever. It's a way of keeping viewers involved and engaged in whatever is currently transpiring. For him to have said, "Meh ... it was OK ... certainly not great ... not even the best of the year" would have been cause for the TV producers to show him to the door.

Yes, the Verdasco match was better. In terms of clay, I think the Rome '06 final was better, so that eliminates the possibility of this recent encounter being the greatest clay-court match of all time.