Will there be anyone to challenge Alcaraz?

[MargaretMcAleer]

Since this post was created during the post Wimbledon hype, Tommy Paul (Canada), Novak Djokovic (Cinci), Daniil Medvedev (USO), J Sinner (Beijing), and Grigor Dimitrov (Shanghai) have beaten Alcaraz.

This is an interesting point in Carlos’ career. He is no longer the hunter. He is expected to win every match, or at least he is the favorite in every match he plays. Huge expectations. This is the transition time of learning to deal with the new kind of pressure. It will be interesting to see how he navigates the round robin during the tour championship in Turin.

We can’t forget he’s a young man growing into all of this. I think he’s done well thus far. Today he had the same amount of winners as Dimitrov, but 5 more errors overall. The differences were that small. Looking forward to seeing the adjustments he makes and how he chooses to wean himself of the constant input from his coach... I think it will help him a lot if he does.

Dimitrov did serve lights out in his first victory over Charly, he needed to, before Grigor hadnt taken a set off Charly, though the one factor in this match for me was Grigor's ability to put balls in the court, in difficult positions and keeping Charly on the back foot.
Let's see if Grigor can go further in Shanghai or will he do his usual after playing a good match and fold like a 'tent'., at the business end of a tournament
Charly did have a favorable draw in Shanghai, Novak leads by 500 points, though I believe Charly will play the indoor tournament in Basel where the winner will win 500 points.

 

[nehmeth]

Dimitrov did serve lights out in his first victory over Charly, he needed to, before Grigor hadnt taken a set off Charly, though the one factor in this match for me was Grigor's ability to put balls in the court, in difficult positions and keeping Charly on the back foot.
Let's see if Grigor can go further in Shanghai or will he do his usual after playing a good match and fold like a 'tent'., at the business end of a tournament
Charly did have a favorable draw in Shanghai, Novak leads by 500 points, though I believe Charly will play the indoor tournament in Basel where the winner will win 500 points.

Novak will be back to play Paris at the end of October.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Novak will be back to play Paris at the end of October.

I realize that, so it will be interesting .

 

[Moxie]

Since this post was created during the post Wimbledon hype, Tommy Paul (Canada), Novak Djokovic (Cinci), Daniil Medvedev (USO), J Sinner (Beijing), and Grigor Dimitrov (Shanghai) have beaten Alcaraz.

This is an interesting point in Carlos’ career. He is no longer the hunter. He is expected to win every match, or at least he is the favorite in every match he plays. Huge expectations. This is the transition time of learning to deal with the new kind of pressure. It will be interesting to see how he navigates the round robin during the tour championship in Turin.

We can’t forget he’s a young man growing into all of this. I think he’s done well thus far. Today he had the same amount of winners as Dimitrov, but 5 more errors overall. The differences were that small. Looking forward to seeing the adjustments he makes and how he chooses to wean himself of the constant input from his coach... I think it will help him a lot if he does.

I agree that he's growing into it. He didn't even have much time to be "the hunter."

I also agree with you that he needs to wean himself of constant on-court input. I've heard that JCF tried to temper his aggressiveness, but when he let him have his head, Carlos did better. It's good to practice restraint, but then play freely as yourself on-court. Carlos has plenty of time...we just tend to forget that.

 

[nehmeth]

He didn't even have much time to be "the hunter."

That made me chuckle. Almost no time at all. And the massive expectation, seemingly from everywhere, can tend to suck the fun out of things.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

I'm starting to think that players are beginning to figure something out with Alcaraz. Since the US Open, Alcaraz has lost to the likes of Medvedev and Dmitrov (players he normally doesn't have problems against), not to mention getting outclassed by Sinner. It will be interesting to see if this carries over into 2024, and if so, can any of the young players - like Rune, Sinner, or Shelton - take advantage and sneak in a slam.

 

[Fiero425]

I'm starting to think that players are beginning to figure something out with Alcaraz. Since the US Open, Alcaraz has lost to the likes of Medvedev and Dmitrov (players he normally doesn't have problems against), not to mention getting outclassed by Sinner. It will be interesting to see if this carries over into 2024, and if so, can any of the young players - like Rune, Sinner, or Shelton - take advantage and sneak in a slam.

Alcaraz is going thru "growing pains!" Not a physical thing as much as it's a mental & ego situation! Carlos obviously has all the power and talent in the world! His head's gotten too big w/ people praising him for his shotmaking! I've been saying since early on, he's too busy trying to make the highlite reels! He needs to just pull back and let a point go instead of running himself into the ground! We always say "this" or "that player should have done this to win the point!" The problem is points last too long for that kind of nonsense! He's making the plays, but it's taking its toll; hence these bad losses of late!

 

[Nadalfan2013]

FAA 2.0 will arrive soon. He has a 4-2 winning record against Djokaraz and will destroy them for years to come.

Of course if Nadal can be healthy then he is the one who will dominate again.

 

[MikeOne]

I think carlos would’ve never attained world #1 without getting help from world governments and anti-nole masses. Nole was forced out of AO, USO in 2022. His wimbledon points were also talen away lol.. 3 slams right there. Plus nole skipped 3 masters in US ground. This is what it takes to bring djoker down, powerful governments and pro players… plus a media which tried to break him down mentally. His response? Back to world #1.. 3 slams and more records. Just a man who will always come out on top.

Carlos got lucky this early but he’s a beast and will be number 1 again.

 

[El Dude]

I think carlos would’ve never attained world #1 without getting help from world governments and anti-nole masses. Nole was forced out of AO, USO in 2022. His wimbledon points were also talen away lol.. 3 slams right there. Plus nole skipped 3 masters in US ground. This is what it takes to bring djoker down, powerful governments and pro players… plus a media which tried to break him down mentally. His response? Back to world #1.. 3 slams and more records. Just a man who will always come out on top.

Carlos got lucky this early but he’s a beast and will be number 1 again.

This is true, and looking at the overall numbers of 2022, I think you could argue that Carlos was really the third best player that year, but got to #1 due to the things you mentioned, and also just playing more than Novak and Rafa. Carlos played 17 events, while Novak played only 11, Rafa 12.

Still, it was a truly great year - especially for a 19-year old.

He still has the best prospects of any young player. I'm sure he'll go into 2024 looking to grab the crown from Novak once and for all. That said, while I think he'll be the guy to beat over the next 5+ years, I don't think his reign will go unchallenged. He'll be the benchmark of the tour, but other players will get hot and beat him. Meaning, his peak level doesn't look so unassailable, even if really good.

 

[Kieran]

I think carlos would’ve never attained world #1 without getting help from world governments and anti-nole masses. Nole was forced out of AO, USO in 2022. His wimbledon points were also talen away lol.. 3 slams right there. Plus nole skipped 3 masters in US ground. This is what it takes to bring djoker down, powerful governments and pro players… plus a media which tried to break him down mentally. His response? Back to world #1.. 3 slams and more records. Just a man who will always come out on top.

Carlos got lucky this early but he’s a beast and will be number 1 again.

Wait, are you giving Nole titles he didn’t win? Don’t forget, Novak chose to skip those tournaments. Carlos turned up. Rafa had skipped tournaments where he had no choice, and I don’t remember you or others saying that the eventual winner - usually Roger or Novak - wouldn’t have won without help…

 

[El Dude]

Wait, are you giving Nole titles he didn’t win? Don’t forget, Novak chose to skip those tournaments. Carlos turned up. Rafa had skipped tournaments where he had no choice, and I don’t remember you or others saying that the eventual winner - usually Roger or Novak - wouldn’t have won without help…

I know, right? All Novak had to do was comply with an unnecessary and experimental medical treatment and risk myocarditis and/or long-term immune damage. But he chose not to, for some strange reason.

 

[Kieran]

I know, right? All Novak had to do was comply with an unnecessary and experimental medical treatment and risk myocarditis and/or long-term immune damage. But he chose not to, for some strange reason.

Well statistically he’d have been fine, but he didn’t exactly choose not to - he still tried to buy and steal his way in…

 

[Moxie]

I know, right? All Novak had to do was comply with an unnecessary and experimental medical treatment and risk myocarditis and/or long-term immune damage. But he chose not to, for some strange reason.

Not to turn this into a covid vaccine thread. Every other player in the top 100 complied with the requirements. It was his choice. MikeOne was giving him an AO and USO that he didn't play. That's a bridge too far. 7 best of 5 matches he didn't play. You can't count on the outcome. He also complains that Novak's Wimbledon points were "taken away." They weren't. They were never on offer, due to global politics, right or wrong.

And you will obviously hate the sh!t out of this, but Kieran does have a point: No one seems to put an asterisk on Majors that Rafa was unable to play/defend, due to injury. (OK, well except the 2009 one...people have given Roger a hard time for that one.) In many ways, it's the same thing: major competition unavailable. As you said on the Fedalovic Wars thread, they all take their opportunities. I'm just not clear that it evens out, though.

This is true, and looking at the overall numbers of 2022, I think you could argue that Carlos was really the third best player that year, but got to #1 due to the things you mentioned, and also just playing more than Novak and Rafa. Carlos played 17 events, while Novak played only 11, Rafa 12.

Still, it was a truly great year - especially for a 19-year old.

He still has the best prospects of any young player. I'm sure he'll go into 2024 looking to grab the crown from Novak once and for all. That said, while I think he'll be the guy to beat over the next 5+ years, I don't think his reign will go unchallenged. He'll be the benchmark of the tour, but other players will get hot and beat him. Meaning, his peak level doesn't look so unassailable, even if really good.

Your assessment of Carlo's 2022 is fair. We all know it was a bit weird in the points department, even if you only note that Wimbledon didn't award points. The rest, people can complain that Novak wasn't "allowed" to play, but they all played by the same rules.

I don't think we've yet seen "Peak" Alcaraz. He's so young, even with 2 Majors. Arguably, Rafa didn't hit peak until his 5th Major. That said, I do agree, or at least hope there will be competition.

 

[nehmeth]

I know, right? All Novak had to do was comply with an unnecessary and experimental medical treatment and risk myocarditis and/or long-term immune damage. But he chose not to, for some strange reason.

And Wimbledon‘s deciding to go political that year and forbidding players based on their country of origin. Then the ATP retaliating by not counting the tournament points, and the players suffering as a result. Pretty sure that was not any player’s ‘choice’.

 

[Kieran]

And Wimbledon‘s deciding to go political that year and forbidding players based on their country of origin. Then the ATP retaliating by not counting the tournament points, and the players suffering as a result. Pretty sure that was not any player’s ‘choice’.

Wimbledon were wrong, but it was the ATP Tour who withdrew the points for Wimbledon, a terrible mistake that gave Putin more than he could ever have hoped for in setting a great western tradition fall into disarray.

I can understand Wimbledon’s decision, without agreeing with it, but the ATP?

No…

 

[nehmeth]

Wimbledon were wrong, but it was the ATP Tour who withdrew the points for Wimbledon, a terrible mistake that gave Putin more than he could ever have hoped for in setting a great western tradition fall into disarray.

I can understand Wimbledon’s decision, without agreeing with it, but the ATP?

No…

No for both… in my opinion.

 

[Kieran]

No for both… in my opinion.

That's fair enough, but it was the ATP who took the points from Novak - the players own association - who made the choice. The players ought to have stopped that...

 

[El Dude]

Not to turn this into a covid vaccine thread. Every other player in the top 100 complied with the requirements. It was his choice. MikeOne was giving him an AO and USO that he didn't play. That's a bridge too far. 7 best of 5 matches he didn't play. You can't count on the outcome. He also complains that Novak's Wimbledon points were "taken away." They weren't. They were never on offer, due to global politics, right or wrong.

And you will obviously hate the sh!t out of this, but Kieran does have a point: No one seems to put an asterisk on Majors that Rafa was unable to play/defend, due to injury. (OK, well except the 2009 one...people have given Roger a hard time for that one.) In many ways, it's the same thing: major competition unavailable. As you said on the Fedalovic Wars thread, they all take their opportunities. I'm just not clear that it evens out, though.

So you and Kieran seem to be calling out a double-standard, then offering your own double-standard? Why must it be one way but not the other? Oh, I know why.

Anyhow, "some folks" put asterisks on just about every Slam Rafa doesn't play or even doesn't win, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Or are you asking the official record keepers to do that? Or tennis fandom as a whole to finally recognize that if Rafa hadn't been robbed by fate, he'd have 40 Slams? (Being sassy, not pissy).

It is not about perfectly evening out - life doesn't work that way. But it is about recognizing that it isn't all weighted against "my guy," which is the definition of victim complex. The Tennis Gods aren't as one-sided against Rafa as you and Kieran like to say they are. One reason why I don't entirely buy the "Rafa was robbed by injury" perspective (or at least feel like it is a bit overblown) is, as I have said before, the reason he got injured so much was the style of his play that allowed him to win the tournaments he won. In other words, a less-injured Rafa would have either been a demigod (able to maintain his best style of play without eventually getting hurt, which is unrealistic) or been a lesser player.

 

[Fiero425]

That's fair enough, but it was the ATP who took the points from Novak - the players own association - who made the choice. The players ought to have stopped that...

I'm sure it made sense in their collective heads at the time w/ ATP council meetings! All it did was make it all look foolish w/ Djokovic unable to even play 2 Majors, won 1 of the other 2 that offered no points, & missed out on 4 Masters events in the North Americas! Not getting Wimbledon points on top of that, he had to scramble to make the YEC by playing Astana & Tele Viv just to qualify as he was in 6th place on the Comp.!