Will Nadal pass Federer?

GameSetAndMath

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He's contracted to Stuttgart till 2019 and I expect him to retire in 2020 if his back improves, that being an Olympic year. Even in a wheelchair he'll be better than 90% of the tour.

Roger's contract with Stuttgart has ended this year. He signed a 2-year deal with them covering 2016 and 2017.

However, he has signed a three year deal with Basel that is beginning this year. So, for sure he is playing till 2019 Basel as a minimum.
 

GameSetAndMath

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I get your point, I think, but haven't a lot of people here used rank and straightforward measures as a way of estimating the competition that a player has faced? By an objective algorithm, the Guardian one isn't wrong, then. And we here have used the same measure.

I have doublechecked. Their method of calculating the difficulty is definitely relative. Even when you give the same set of seven players,
their method will assess different difficulty level for that GS depending on whether Roger or Rafa is facing them. Here is a to the wiki page of Elo rating system . As you can see the prediction (the chances) of
who will win depends on the difference between the Elo ratings of the two players involved. These chances play a crucial role in
determining the difficulty level of a GS win in their method. It is very clearly and definitely not an objective scheme.

To give you analogy in terms of rankings, it is like calculating the average difference in ranking between you and your opponent, instead of merely calculating the average ranking of the opponent. If your own ranking is bad, the same seven opponents will then yield a higher difficulty level.

Let me know whether you agree or need further explanation.

I don't have a problem with them using Elo ratings. You could just think of it as another alternative to ranking scheme and see how it looks under that system. However, they should base the difficulty level on the average Elo rating of the opponents faced. The moment they get into the difference in the Elo ratings, that involves your own Elo rating and hence is not an objective measure of the difficulty any more, but a relative measure of difficulty with respect to you.
 
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the AntiPusher

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I doubt Fed retires anytime soon with that asshole on his back. At least he shouldn't.

'With that asshole on his back"

Darth.. dude that's foul to make such a disparaging remark about the mother of Roger's children. Mirka is just doing her best to keep that egomaniac from just hanging around the house or joining the. Senior Tour


My theory is Hoisting her on his shoulders during Daddy and Mommy "happy time" may have been the catalyst to why his back is troubling him. I would suggest that you may need to holla at your boy to try some other positions that will be less taxing on his back..

Remember the rule (just in US politics.. spouse and children are off limits) pick one some like Rafa or me , "I am a man, I am 40.. I can take it.." LOL
 

shawnbm

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I think that one of the best things going for Nadal is that he is one of the few players who has a winning record against most of the top players he has faced. That speaks volumes as to his strengths--he plays his best or does not have a bad day against the top players, often in big events. Federer obviously has that as well, but for Nadal largely due to his poor results on the red clay of Europe against only Nadal (outside of Rafa he has one of the best clay court records of anyone). Perhaps the one thing Roger has more than anyone, with Novak in second, is going deep in majors over a sustained period of time (which is, sadly, a weak spot for Nadal, who has too often failed in the first week of majors). Novak also does like Rafa in that his record against the top players is steller--particularly against Roger and Rafa. Murray? He wipes the floor with Andy as it presently stands. It is a special epoch in which we find ourselves. I hope we have all been enjoying it thoroughly.
 
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DarthFed

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'With that asshole on his back"

Darth.. dude that's foul to make such a disparaging remark about the mother of Roger's children. Mirka is just doing her best to keep that egomaniac from just hanging around the house or joining the. Senior Tour


My theory is Hoisting her on his shoulders during Daddy and Mommy "happy time" may have been the catalyst to why his back is troubling him. I would suggest that you may need to holla at your boy to try some other positions that will be less taxing on his back..

Remember the rule (just in US politics.. spouse and children are off limits) pick one some like Rafa or me , "I am a man, I am 40.. I can take it.." LOL

Oh trust me, I got theories why Whafa is always picking his arse. And I'd say he's more of an egomaniac than Fed. He's fake humble, his uncle is an annoying tw@@ but I appreciate the more direct style.

And man I miss Mike Gundy. One of the all-time great sports blowups :lol6:

 
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Federberg

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I think that one of the best things going for Nadal is that he is one of the few players who has a winning record against most of the top players he has faced. That speaks volumes as to his strengths--he plays his best or does not have a bad day against the top players, often in big events. Federer obviously has that as well, but for Nadal largely due to his poor results on the red clay of Europe against only Nadal (outside of Rafa he has one of the best clay court records of anyone). Perhaps the one thing Roger has more than anyone, with Novak in second, is going deep in majors over a sustained period of time (which is, sadly, a weak spot for Nadal, who has too often failed in the first week of majors). Novak also does like Rafa in that his record against the top players is steller--particularly against Roger and Rafa. Murray? He wipes the floor with Andy as it presently stands. It is a special epoch in which we find ourselves. I hope we have all been enjoying it thoroughly.

I agree with this, but question (and I'm really asking) should Rafa's tendency to get knocked out by no names off clay count against him?
 

shawnbm

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^ sure--I think it is undeniably a weak part of his record, but really only is in comparison to Federer and, to a lesser extent Novak, whose records of getting to semifinals and finals of majors are unreal, particularly over a five year period.
 

Carol

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I rather to listen 200 times what Toni says than to see Mirka ridiculously whistling during a match to his wimp husband opponent
 

DarthFed

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I rather to listen 200 times what Toni says than to see Mirka ridiculously whistling during a match to his wimp husband opponent

I'd prefer Mirka whistling to Toni's illegal coaching in the stands and constant whining about surfaces not being slow enough for Nads.
 
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Carol

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Many coaches are doing the "ilegal coaching" and not just saying a couple of words but with signs which are even worse
 

Federberg

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I've always felt it's about more than majors. I still maintain it's a Sampras era construct. You look at players in the Lendl era, they weren't worried about how many majors they won. They skipped them in their primes so it's a bit weird to me that they are being judged on that basis. I still think that more credit should be given to number of titles and number of weeks at number 1 than we currently do. That's not to say majors aren't important but a reweighting is in order in my view if we're ever going to have any sort of credible cross-era comparisons. Makes no sense to judge players by criteria that weren't as fundamental to them
 

Carol

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Who is admitting what? to say a couple of words o better saying VAMOS is "illegal couching"? oh yeah :cuckoo:
 
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Carol

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Who is whining about the surfaces constantly? come on, a couple of posters around here :lulz2::lulz2:
 
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DarthFed

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Yeah I will admit I whine/complain about surfaces because they just keep getting slower and they are almost all getting more and more similar. I like variety and I enjoy shotmaking on fast courts a lot more than some of the grinding monotonously long rallies we see today.

But with that said I've never heard Roger complain about the surfaces which is unbelievable. If any player has a huge right to complain it'd be him let's just leave it at that. Despite all the advantages Rafa has been gifted you still see him and his uncle complain about the balls being used or YEC not randomly being moved to clay, etc.
 
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Moxie

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Who is whining about the surfaces constantly? come on, a couple of posters around here :lulz2::lulz2:

She kinda did get you there.
Yeah I will admit I whine/complain about surfaces because they just keep getting slower and they are almost all getting more and more similar. I like variety and I enjoy shotmaking on fast courts a lot more than some of the grinding monotonously long rallies we see today.

But with that said I've never heard Roger complain about the surfaces which is unbelievable. If any player has a huge right to complain it'd be him let's just leave it at that. Despite all the advantages Rafa has been gifted you still see him and his uncle complain about the balls being used or YEC not randomly being moved to clay, etc.
Maybe Roger doesn't object at all. You're the one that has a problem.
 

DarthFed

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So number of Major wins is the only criterion? Somehow I don't think that would be the end of the discussion.

It's the main thing for sure. What's your argument for Rafa having a case as greatest? Just out of curiosity. I sincerely hope you don't believe the H2H is worth 3 slams. It isn't even worth one.
 

DarthFed

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She kinda did get you there.

Maybe Roger doesn't object at all. You're the one that has a problem.

Roger never complains, your boy and his uncle on the other hand...

Aside from challenge system he never complains :)