Will Nadal pass Federer?

[DarthFed]

Eh, 2012/2013? We're talking about Nadal in the midst of five Wimbledon final appearances in 5 participations. The same Nadal that went on to win it in 2010 and make the final again in 2011 losing to his nemesis. It's hardly the same and you know it. He's stunk on grass for a while now. He didn't stink back then. So yeah, for five years, he always did.


Come on, B.

And in those 5 runs he went to 5 sets on five different occasions over 3 runs. He was hardly a sure thing. After all he had made 5 straight Wimbledon finals heading into the Rosol match right?

Right, except we're talking about 2009, when it was in the middle of that 5 straight runs to the final. The Rosol match was 3 years later when Nadal started being crap on grass. This makes no sense.

That's like saying Federer was always shaky at Roland Garros when he made 4 finals in 5 years between 2006-2011 because then he lost to Tsonga, Monfils, etc...

No, it's comparing a narrow loss in 2012 to the numerous narrow victories he had to even reach the final in 2006, 2007, and 2010. Ergo it is out there to assume he'd be a sure thing to reach the final in 2009

 

[brokenshoelace]

And in those 5 runs he went to 5 sets on five different occasions over 3 runs. He was hardly a sure thing. After all he had made 5 straight Wimbledon finals heading into the Rosol match right?

Right, except we're talking about 2009, when it was in the middle of that 5 straight runs to the final. The Rosol match was 3 years later when Nadal started being crap on grass. This makes no sense.

That's like saying Federer was always shaky at Roland Garros when he made 4 finals in 5 years between 2006-2011 because then he lost to Tsonga, Monfils, etc...

No, it's comparing a narrow loss in 2012 to the numerous narrow victories he had to even reach the final in 2006, 2007, and 2010. Ergo it is out there to assume he'd be a sure thing to reach the final in 2009

The difference is the narrow loss in 2012 turned out to have far bigger implications. It showed how Nadal has regressed on grass as evidenced by what happened in subsequent years. Whereas those close wins he had were a result of him being vulnerable in the first week due to the surface, but the fact is he was still winning. Getting straight setted by Darcis is not the same as winning 5 setters against Haase or Soderling.

 

[DarthFed]

True, but the fact he rarely breezed through the draw meant that he was not a sure thing. It's not like he was ever Federer-like at Wimbledon or USO where you could pencil him in the final before seeing the draw.

 

[Front242]

Eh, 2012/2013? We're talking about Nadal in the midst of five Wimbledon final appearances in 5 participations. The same Nadal that went on to win it in 2010 and make the final again in 2011 losing to his nemesis. It's hardly the same and you know it. He's stunk on grass for a while now. He didn't stink back then. So yeah, for five years, he always did.


Come on, B.

And in those 5 runs he went to 5 sets on five different occasions over 3 runs. He was hardly a sure thing. After all he had made 5 straight Wimbledon finals heading into the Rosol match right?

Right, except we're talking about 2009, when it was in the middle of that 5 straight runs to the final. The Rosol match was 3 years later when Nadal started being crap on grass. This makes no sense.

That's like saying Federer was always shaky at Roland Garros when he made 4 finals in 5 years between 2006-2011 because then he lost to Tsonga, Monfils, etc...

Nadal started being crap on grass well before losing to Rosol. You may have forgotten how he barely squeaked past Haase and Petzschner in 2010 (with the help of some dubious MTOs don't forget), but the rest of us haven't. He won that title in 2010 but he sure as hell had trouble in the early rounds needing a good amount of gamesmanship to help him past those two. He was down 2 sets to love against Kendrick as well in the 2nd round of 2006. Again, he made the final but he struggled in the first week as he has there pretty much every year.

 

[brokenshoelace]

And in those 5 runs he went to 5 sets on five different occasions over 3 runs. He was hardly a sure thing. After all he had made 5 straight Wimbledon finals heading into the Rosol match right?

Right, except we're talking about 2009, when it was in the middle of that 5 straight runs to the final. The Rosol match was 3 years later when Nadal started being crap on grass. This makes no sense.

That's like saying Federer was always shaky at Roland Garros when he made 4 finals in 5 years between 2006-2011 because then he lost to Tsonga, Monfils, etc...

Nadal started being crap on grass well before losing to Rosol. You may have forgotten how he barely squeaked past Haase and Petzschner in 2010 (with the help of some dubious MTOs don't forget), but the rest of us haven't. He won that title in 2010 but he sure as hell had trouble in the early rounds needing a good amount of gamesmanship to help him past those two. He was down 2 sets to love against Kendrick as well in the 2nd round of 2006. Again, he made the final but he struggled in the first week as he has there pretty much every year.

Yeah my bad. Nadal started being crap on grass in 2010 as you said...when he won Wimbledon for the second time.

 

[Federberg]

^Front have you noticed how when Nadal wins a slam it's because he's good. When Roger wins he's lucky because Rafa had his head up his behind? :nono

 

[Front242]

Right, except we're talking about 2009, when it was in the middle of that 5 straight runs to the final. The Rosol match was 3 years later when Nadal started being crap on grass. This makes no sense.

That's like saying Federer was always shaky at Roland Garros when he made 4 finals in 5 years between 2006-2011 because then he lost to Tsonga, Monfils, etc...

Nadal started being crap on grass well before losing to Rosol. You may have forgotten how he barely squeaked past Haase and Petzschner in 2010 (with the help of some dubious MTOs don't forget), but the rest of us haven't. He won that title in 2010 but he sure as hell had trouble in the early rounds needing a good amount of gamesmanship to help him past those two. He was down 2 sets to love against Kendrick as well in the 2nd round of 2006. Again, he made the final but he struggled in the first week as he has there pretty much every year.

Yeah my bad. Nadal started being crap on grass in 2010 as you said...when he won Wimbledon for the second time.

Yes, after he had to cheat his way past 2 guys who were kicking his ass. What a worthy champion.

 

[Front242]

^Front have you noticed how when Nadal wins a slam it's because he's good. When Roger wins he's lucky because Rafa had his head up his behind? :nono

It's like modern man versus caveman here.

 

[Federberg]

^Front have you noticed how when Nadal wins a slam it's because he's good. When Roger wins he's lucky because Rafa had his head up his behind? :nono

It's like modern man versus caveman here.

It's hard to believe we're having this debate with adult men. I mean really.. utterly pathetic excuses and delusional fantasy. Nadal is a great player, but you pay the price of how you play. If we spent our time fantasing about "yeah but player A would have done this if that didn't happen" It's hilarious really. A bit of reality please!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Moving from past to future, I think the earliest that Rafa can possibly (not definitely) win a GS in future is at 2016 RG. What do you guys think?

 

[Federberg]

Moving from past to future, I think the earliest that Rafa can possibly (not definitely) win a GS in future is at 2016 RG. What do you guys think?

Now that Novak has broken the damn the draw becomes very important for Rafa. And I would love to see Murray up against him at RG now. That could be a different match as well. And that's not even talking about Stan on a cold damp day (mind you I'm not sure there's a player on tour, Novak included who would survive a Stanimal moment).

 

[Kieran]

Moving from past to future, I think the earliest that Rafa can possibly (not definitely) win a GS in future is at 2016 RG. What do you guys think?

I think that there's a lot to figure out here. For example, if he isn't a contender at Oz, then why should we think he'll be a contender at RG? He's actually having a very unhappy, sapping time on clay the last two seasons, including this one. It might be that he's better at the US Open, doing what Front has suggested, playing a lot more aggressively and getting some cheaper points off serve. Roger has adapted his style naturally back to what he was in his teen years, a bloke who steam-charges the net at the first opportunity, but Rafa has been plenty adept at adapting his style too, and as he's clearly showing normal signs of aging, he might do better on a fast court.

I think the next few weeks and months will tell a lot. Rafa is a bloke who'll squeeze you dry if his confidence is up. At the moment, it's not, and his movement is arbitrary, his energy levels aren't the explosive usual, his forehand isn't clicking: a lot of stuff like this gets related to other stuff, and it can all rise when his confidence returns.

So I think RG next year is a bit far away, I think he'll be a competitor and start taking scalps much sooner than this...

 

[Front242]

Maybe, maybe not. I think a lot of that is based on a hope as past seasons (besides 2010 and 2013 after his PRP treatments) don't show a trend towards him doing much from here on out in the year.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Until Rafa gets his ranking up to top 4 (not to mention anything about his game, which is even more relevant), he cannot be considered a contender for any slam other than RG. It will probably take the rest of the year to do that.

 

[Federberg]

^Talk dirty GSM! :laydownlaughing

 

[Kieran]

Until Rafa gets his ranking up to top 4 (not to mention anything about his game, which is even more relevant), he cannot be considered a contender for any slam other than RG. It will probably take the rest of the year to do that.

Well that's only a prejudice, not a statistic...

 

[El Dude]

Staying healthy is indeed a skill. There's no denying that. But sometimes, you can get injured through no fault of your own. Bad luck. It happens. Are we really denying that?

No, of course not - I said as much in my post above. But patterns of injuries is not simply bad luck. As I said, a specific injury might be bad luck, but being "injury prone" usually points to an inability to stay health and/or a play style that is conducive to injury. In some cases it has to do with body type.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal started being crap on grass well before losing to Rosol. You may have forgotten how he barely squeaked past Haase and Petzschner in 2010 (with the help of some dubious MTOs don't forget), but the rest of us haven't. He won that title in 2010 but he sure as hell had trouble in the early rounds needing a good amount of gamesmanship to help him past those two. He was down 2 sets to love against Kendrick as well in the 2nd round of 2006. Again, he made the final but he struggled in the first week as he has there pretty much every year.

Yeah my bad. Nadal started being crap on grass in 2010 as you said...when he won Wimbledon for the second time.

Yes, after he had to cheat his way past 2 guys who were kicking his ass. What a worthy champion.

Oh, lord.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^Front have you noticed how when Nadal wins a slam it's because he's good. When Roger wins he's lucky because Rafa had his head up his behind? :nono

It's hilarious how you asked him that a second before he said Nadal had to "cheat his way to win a slam." This thread is irony personified. You and Front have been on fire.

Of course, you wouldn't know if Nadal cheated or not because you didn't watch (as you don't particularly enjoy watching him). I'm sure you caught the result online though and formulated a world class assessment accordingly.

 

[Federberg]

^Front have you noticed how when Nadal wins a slam it's because he's good. When Roger wins he's lucky because Rafa had his head up his behind? :nono

It's hilarious how you asked him that a second before he said Nadal had to "cheat his way to win a slam." This thread is irony personified. You and Front have been on fire.

Of course, you wouldn't know if Nadal cheated or not because you didn't watch (as you don't particularly enjoy watching him). I'm sure you caught the result online though and formulated a world class assessment accordingly.

Yes Mr Snark I notice that you don't challenge the statement though. Keep trying to frame the issue to justify all your nonsense. I see the maggot 'liked' your comment, even better! :laydownlaughing