Will Nadal pass Federer?

[Kieran]

I read it properly. He is not and never will be a grinder. Federer is a baseliner. It suited Sampras to play S&V 'cos the courts were so much faster. You can't do that these except maybe the first few rounds as Stakhovsky proved was possible. Pete had wear and tear from his slam dunks most likely. Imagine the pressure on your body launching yourself miles into the air and landing on cement or grass. It looked cool but in the long term it sure wasn't clever. Likewise with running down impossible balls, it's impressive and Nadal has hit plenty of spectacular passing shots on the run but he's paying the price for it now.

I never denied he had injuries, I said you can play no problem with tendinitis. And I also don't consider tendinitis an injury. It's a condition that can be controlled and can flare up at any time, maybe, just maybe when a big hitting Swede is knocking the cover off the ball and making you run a lot due to tons of short balls from poor play.

No, you're not quoting it properly and I'm gonna keep pulling you up on it until you sit quiet and pay attention to what you're being told, because I know you have a ridiculously short attention span.

Nobody called Federer a grinder - I said that he's a grinder at Wimbledon compared to Sampras which is true: he stayed back all those years and rallied, whereas to Pete, a long rally - as I said before, was having to hit a second serve.

Try understand the comparison that's been made. Don't think in simple terms.

Your remark that Pete got the wear and tear from slam-dunking all day is hilarious. It's truly witty. Wrong, of course, but salaciously funny. He withdrew from Oz in 1999 citing fatigue after the effort of hanging onto #1 in 1998, to set the record. He was only 27 at that stage, so it shows you how normal wear and tear affected him, and he played brief points, and mainly wasn't a feature on clay. It had nothing to do with leaping up in the air and landing on cement... :laydownlaughing

Keeping smoking the funny stuff, man 'cos like it or not this most definitely had an affect on his wear and tear and to think otherwise is plain dense. And I've a perfectly good attention span, thanks. What I don't have is much patience for many Nadal fans besides a select few who don't make excuses for practically every loss, proclaim him to be so injured he's like Stephen Hawkings and basically agree with every dumb thing he and his camp say and do.

Yeah btw, this is great for your joints. Everyone should do this. I mean it looks cool but sure, very healthy jumping on cement no doubt. Keep telling yourself it had no effect on him.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvpW6thKKPI[/video]

I'm always pleased to see videos of the great Pete, but normal wear and tear would come with age, and a lot of mileage on the clock. Pete and Rafa both had it, and Roger has had even more mileage than Pete, but so far he's been doing fine, thankfully.

The slam dunks were spectacular, but I don't know if you were watching tennis then: if he hit three a tournament, we were lucky to see them. They didn't harm anyone except his opponent. It was a bit of showboating razzmatazz from a truly great player...

 

[Front242]

Roger's older and played more matches than Pete did but when was the last time you saw him do that on a hard court? This is was no normal overhead, Sampras jumped pretty high for some of those and the force on your joints doing that on hard court must be massive. Roger's largely unaffected because he's careful and doesn't overdo things. The polar opposite of Nadal and this again has nothing to do with Roger's genetics or luck but simply a more intelligent long term playing style. He could probably play 5-6 more years if he wanted to because of how he plays. Not that he will but he could.

 

[Kieran]

Brother, it's a tough gruelling tour. Nobody can be immune from the mental and physical wear and tear, and certainly not playing baseline tennis all the time. I'm only bringing this up because you seem to blame other players for being naturally affected by the brutal grind of things. It's funny that you think that Pete leaping in the air every six days would be so perilous to him. And I'm happy Federer is healthy, and never has to skip majors. I wouldn't wish it on him, we'll all miss him when he's gone.

I mean that, too, I hope he's here for another couple years (although obviously not winning majors, just to get back on topic... :snicker)...

 

[I.Haychew]

In my opinion, jumping in order to hit an overhead is no big deal, unless you have no idea how to land. Abrupt stopping, IMO, is much harder on the knees. It may be risky, but Djokovic has figured out how to go balls to the wall on hardcourts...He has mastered "the slide". He may run the risk of rolling his ankles, but he's definitely saving his knees by sliding.

 

[Kieran]

I dunno how Djoker slides on cement. He must have great shoes, as well as elastic ankles, because when I see him do it, I always expect his foot to jam and twist his ankle. It's a risky way to move on any other surface than clay!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Since I bumped up this thread, it has grown more than 5 pages and so I thought there would have been lot of discussion on the topic. I should have known better. Last 5 pages have almost nothing to do with the question.

I am still enamored by the analysis presented in the article. One year ago, people (you know if you
are one of them) were more skeptical of the projections made in that article. Now, it looks almost certain that the projections made in that article are closer to reality than the wishful thinking of fans.

 

[Kirijax]

Tennis Frontier ‏@TennisFrontier
Is @rogerfederer's Grand Slam record safe from @RafaelNadal now? http://bit.ly/1KaQQs1 @TennisFrontier

 

[Kieran]

I enjoyed reading the article when you reposted it but I think most fans have kinda accepted that Fedal will hold what they have, or at best there'll be a small increase, most likely on Rafa's side cos he's younger. Not sure if there's been too many "wishful" fans here the last couple of days. Maybe last year, but not any more...

 

[I.Haychew]

Since I bumped up this thread, it has grown more than 5 pages and so I thought there would have been lot of discussion on the topic. I should have known better. Last 5 pages have almost nothing to do with the question.

I am still enamored by the analysis presented in the article. One year ago, people (you know if you
are one of them) were more skeptical of the projections made in that article. Now, it looks almost certain that the projections made in that article are closer to reality than the wishful thinking of fans.

Sorry to be one who contributed to de-railing the thread. To get back on topic, I'm guessing that Folks, if he continues to play at, or worse than, his current level, will NOT surpass Federer's major total. I'd have a completely different opinion had he (Folks) won this year's French Open.

 

[Moxie]

I enjoyed reading the article when you reposted it but I think most fans have kinda accepted that Fedal will hold what they have, or at best there'll be a small increase, most likely on Rafa's side cos he's younger. Not sure if there's been too many "wishful" fans here the last couple of days. Maybe last year, but not any more...

Speak for yourself, Kieran. I'm still hopeful/wishful, and I won't be abashed. :basiate

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I enjoyed reading the article when you reposted it but I think most fans have kinda accepted that Fedal will hold what they have, or at best there'll be a small increase, most likely on Rafa's side cos he's younger. Not sure if there's been too many "wishful" fans here the last couple of days. Maybe last year, but not any more...

Yes, I agree there are not many "wishful" fans in the last couple of days except perhaps Moxie (normally in such sentences, we used to write Carol or Nadal2005RG or Autopilot before, but nowadays it is Moxie). The beauty of the analysis is that it was done last year when it was not
well received (there were lot of "wishful" fans at that time). It is easy to connect the dots later.
But, this one did before.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Tennis Frontier ‏@TennisFrontier
Is @rogerfederer's Grand Slam record safe from @RafaelNadal now? http://bit.ly/1KaQQs1 @TennisFrontier

You misunderstood the question. The question is not whether Rafa will pass 17 Slams. :nono
The question is will Nadal pass Federer on GS count, when all is said and done?

 

[Kieran]

I enjoyed reading the article when you reposted it but I think most fans have kinda accepted that Fedal will hold what they have, or at best there'll be a small increase, most likely on Rafa's side cos he's younger. Not sure if there's been too many "wishful" fans here the last couple of days. Maybe last year, but not any more...

Yes, I agree there are not many "wishful" fans in the last couple of days except perhaps Moxie (normally in such sentences, we used to write Carol or Nadal2005RG or Autopilot before, but nowadays it is Moxie). The beauty of the analysis is that it was done last year when it was not
well received (there were lot of "wishful" fans at that time). It is easy to connect the dots later.
But, this one did before.

Well, given the twelve months Rafa has had, it's hardly surprising that expectations have lowered, isn't that right?

 

[Kirijax]

Tennis Frontier ‏@TennisFrontier
Is @rogerfederer's Grand Slam record safe from @RafaelNadal now? http://bit.ly/1KaQQs1 @TennisFrontier

You misunderstood the question. The question is not whether Rafa will pass 17 Slams. :nono
The question is will Nadal pass Federer on GS count, when all is said and done?

:cover Silly me. Here I sat assuming Federer would retire with 17.

 

[Moxie]

I enjoyed reading the article when you reposted it but I think most fans have kinda accepted that Fedal will hold what they have, or at best there'll be a small increase, most likely on Rafa's side cos he's younger. Not sure if there's been too many "wishful" fans here the last couple of days. Maybe last year, but not any more...

Yes, I agree there are not many "wishful" fans in the last couple of days except perhaps Moxie (normally in such sentences, we used to write Carol or Nadal2005RG or Autopilot before, but nowadays it is Moxie). The beauty of the analysis is that it was done last year when it was not
well received (there were lot of "wishful" fans at that time). It is easy to connect the dots later.
But, this one did before.

I resent the association with trolls. Being stalwart is not the same as trolling. You make your preferences and prejudices quite clear. I don't know why I shouldn't be afforded the same right. I have always said that I don't have to buy into the prevailing wind, even when it seems I might be tilting at windmills. I've got all of you for nay-sayers. I'll fancy Nadal's chance until he hangs it up. To me, I see that as my job to counter the argument. If we all just caved, what argument would there be? And that would be no fun.

 

[Federberg]

Roger's older and played more matches than Pete did but when was the last time you saw him do that on a hard court? This is was no normal overhead, Sampras jumped pretty high for some of those and the force on your joints doing that on hard court must be massive. Roger's largely unaffected because he's careful and doesn't overdo things. The polar opposite of Nadal and this again has nothing to do with Roger's genetics or luck but simply a more intelligent long term playing style. He could probably play 5-6 more years if he wanted to because of how he plays. Not that he will but he could.

It's hilarious really, we're supposed to feel sorry for Nadal because he plays a style that causes the wear and tear? How on earth is that unlucky? Logic in Nadalfanworld :nono It's the very price of his success, the idea that his injuries have anything to do with bad luck is just sad deluded thinking. And to twist it around and suggest Federer is lucky shows a faulty appreciation of biomechanics. But as I said before the sky looks different in Nadalfanworld!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Did Rafa skip 2009 RG? He was clearly not injured enough to play RG and smoke his first 4 opponents... Roger wasn't sick enough to skip AO 2008 and other tournaments either. Both guys played way worse than we were accustomed to seeing but they showed up, they played, and they lost. So again, what is the difference between Rafa and his knees in RG 09 and Roger and his mono in 2008?

...Nadal's knee injuries forced him to skip a major in which he was the defending champ?

And yet he still played RG '09...that was before he skipped Wimbledon. Is anyone going to respond to the question regarding the fact that being run ragged by the Sod may have had something to do with Rafa not playing Wimbledon?

I'm sure it did. But here's a question, do you think he suddenly started feeling the pain AFTER that match? Didn't think so. Glad you agree Rafa was hurt in that match.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I enjoyed reading the article when you reposted it but I think most fans have kinda accepted that Fedal will hold what they have, or at best there'll be a small increase, most likely on Rafa's side cos he's younger. Not sure if there's been too many "wishful" fans here the last couple of days. Maybe last year, but not any more...

Yes, I agree there are not many "wishful" fans in the last couple of days except perhaps Moxie (normally in such sentences, we used to write Carol or Nadal2005RG or Autopilot before, but nowadays it is Moxie). The beauty of the analysis is that it was done last year when it was not
well received (there were lot of "wishful" fans at that time). It is easy to connect the dots later.
But, this one did before.

Find my posts from after the AO match last year. That was Nadal's chance to catch Roger. The chance was gone then.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Roger's older and played more matches than Pete did but when was the last time you saw him do that on a hard court? This is was no normal overhead, Sampras jumped pretty high for some of those and the force on your joints doing that on hard court must be massive. Roger's largely unaffected because he's careful and doesn't overdo things. The polar opposite of Nadal and this again has nothing to do with Roger's genetics or luck but simply a more intelligent long term playing style. He could probably play 5-6 more years if he wanted to because of how he plays. Not that he will but he could.

It's hilarious really, we're supposed to feel sorry for Nadal because he plays a style that causes the wear and tear? How on earth is that unlucky? Logic in Nadalfanworld :nono It's the very price of his success, the idea that his injuries have anything to do with bad luck is just sad deluded thinking. And to twist it around and suggest Federer is lucky shows a faulty appreciation of biomechanics. But as I said before the sky looks different in Nadalfanworld!

Here's how he's unlucky:

Appendicitis, wrist injury that forces him out of the US Open, stomach virus that forces him out of the AO, hamstring tear against Ferrer at the 2011 AO in the third game of the match when he was going for the Rafa slam (none of this has to do with wear and tear) tendinitis that forces him to be out for SEVEN MONTHS. Yes, he plays a physical style, but you think this leads to a seven months absence? Really? That's not unlucky?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Since I'm responding to everything allow me to point out the absolutely most short sighted argument in this thread:

- Roger's only won one slam that Rafa missed (Wimbledon 2009), and therefore how much did he really benefit from Nadal's absence?

Uh...he doesn't have to win to benefit, right? Nadal not playing in a slam means he has no chance to win it, and therefor no chance to close in on Roger's record.