Why Djokovic hasn't won the French Open and why he may never beat Nadal at RG.....

[Luxilon Borg]

You left out the set he won. Yes, asopposed to that. Because losing in 4, when you had the chance to win the first set makes you closer to victory than getting blown out in straights. Also, if you can't dictate consistently, which Murray couldn't, you can't attack the net. Tennis has changed. Djokovic is literally the last player in the world you want get to net-rush happy against. It can work, when done right and on the right surface. Not at the AO though.

Please don't continue to put words in my mouth as you did in the other thread,

No one said anything about "net rushing". He is not and will never be Edberg or Lopez even.

Capitalizing on having your opponent 4 feet wide of the doubles alley at full stretch by moving in with an approach is not a net rush. An occasional calculated serve and volley is not a net rush.

You said it yourself, Murray is a good volleyer.

You suggested he attacks the net 33 times per set. That's not "net-rushing"? Because when you attack the net that many times playing the way Murray does, most of these are not going to be off of good approach shots.

I understand what you're saying. There are times in the rallies where Murray seems to have Novak on the ropes and lets him hit a defensive shot to neutralize the point. Could he maybe sneak in a few more times to keep Novak honest? Perhaps. Should he attack the net with anywhere near as much frequency as you're suggesting? Absolutely not.

Ok, I will fess up that 33 per set was a big exaggeration on my part to make point. Agree with you that TOO many attacks and it will not be affective.

However there is a fine line between "attacking" the net, and capitalizing on a good position, which he does rarely. A good number of those 30 ball rallies could be over in 10 and under...but its Damaging Shot>Defensive Recovery>Damaging Shot>Defensive Recovery>Neutral Shot...Rinse and repeat.

So the reality is probably exactly in between what we are both saying.

 

[DarthFed]

Alive and well...for a few weeks.

 

[Denis]

No need to answer "formerly banned artists" Nehmeth

His analysis of their matchups is hilarious as even going back to Nole's younger days it has almost always been Novak dictating play and Rafa winning with defense and clutch play in the big moments. Nole might be a slightly better mover at this point and slightly better on defense but when Rafa is playing like himself he is still the ultimate ball machine and his opponents, Nole included, will miss before he does. The extremely high bouncing clay like RG and Monte Carlo are the only places you'll see Rafa effectively attack Novak on a consistent basis. Otherwise Rafa usually is Nole's yoyo and is hoping to outlast him.

:clap
Admin, can I double like this post?

 

[brokenshoelace]

No need to answer "formerly banned artists" Nehmeth

His analysis of their matchups is hilarious as even going back to Nole's younger days it has almost always been Novak dictating play and Rafa winning with defense and clutch play in the big moments. Nole might be a slightly better mover at this point and slightly better on defense but when Rafa is playing like himself he is still the ultimate ball machine and his opponents, Nole included, will miss before he does. The extremely high bouncing clay like RG and Monte Carlo are the only places you'll see Rafa effectively attack Novak on a consistent basis. Otherwise Rafa usually is Nole's yoyo and is hoping to outlast him.

:clap
Admin, can I double like this post?

Disclaimer: This is a response to DarthFed's post, not yours, but I'm too lazy to click back on the previous page and quote it.

Nadal doesn't win matches against Novak with defense anymore. That stopped being the case since 2011. At least, he can't reliably count on that as Novak has become more patient and more consistent, without necessarily sacrificing too much aggression.

There are matches he's won mainly with defense (Rome 2012 stands out), but for the most part, would you say Nadal won RG last year with defense? Absolutely not. Did he win the 2013 US Open final with defense? Absolutely not. Did he win the FO 2013 semi final with defense? BIG TIME NO. Monte Carlo 2012? No. Did he win the Montreal semi final in 2013 with defense? No way. Hell, he didn't even the 2010 US Open final with defense. That's just off the top of my head.

Time to let old notions rest. Nadal can't rely on his defense first and foremost in this match-up. Of course he'll have to do a lot of defending, the same way Novak does, because they engage in 22929 stroke rallies in which they take turns stretching each other in each corner of the court. His defense might win him key points, but again, that applies to Novak. But when you look at the reason behind his wins since 2011, it's not his defense. It can't be, otherwise he'd lose. That's the main difference between their pre 2011 matches and after. Obviously Novak does most of the dictating...in the matches in which he wins against Nadal, and that's why he's won more in the past 3-4 years. And yes, even prior to that, he often did the dictating, but wasn't as consistent and Nadal was a better defender than he is now.

The main difference, I think, is the matches which Novak wins against Nadal have a clear aggressor: Novak, hence some pretty straightforward results. Whereas the matches Nadal wins generally consist of them taking turns dictating, with Nadal winning the sets in which he's able to assert his aggression, and consequently, the match.

 

[nehmeth]

Agreed about the offense Broken.

Montreal 2013... Rafa stood and practiced killing balls while standing on the baseline. I knew Nole would be in trouble just watching it. I was correct.

 

[auto-pilot]

I don't think we'll see Djokovic beat Nadal at the US Open/French Open ever (apart from 2011 when Nadal was all defensive and got pushed around like a yo yo at the USO and at RG by Isner and Federer to an extent).
Nadal gets more aggressive each year, and Djokovic can't handle it (except for at the non-slams because Nadal doesn't go down-the-line as much - maybe Nadal doesn't want to show his full deck of cards at non-slams, hence not giving Djokovic practice against Nadal's killer blow).