Why Can't I Discuss Nadal's Amazing Results without...

[Luxilon Borg]

...someone in a group mentioning performance enhancing drugs or some unsavory comparison to Lance Armstrong? I grow weary of these discussions.

Anybody else encounter this?

 

[tented]

...someone in a group mentioning performance enhancing drugs or some unsavory comparison to Lance Armstrong? I grow weary of these discussions.

Anybody else encounter this?

No, and I believe you're the first to mention it here recently. It's akin to trolling, as I see it.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

...someone in a group mentioning performance enhancing drugs or some unsavory comparison to Lance Armstrong? I grow weary of these discussions.

Anybody else encounter this?

No, and I believe you're the first to mention it here recently. It's akin to trolling, as I see it.

No trolling intended..call me a cynic in life...but I'm an idealist in regards to tennis. I'm trying to understand why there is such a knee jerk reaction from folks.

 

[Moxie]

...someone in a group mentioning performance enhancing drugs or some unsavory comparison to Lance Armstrong? I grow weary of these discussions.

Anybody else encounter this?

No, and I believe you're the first to mention it here recently. It's akin to trolling, as I see it.

No trolling intended..call me a cynic in life...but I'm an idealist in regards to tennis. I'm trying to understand why there is such a knee jerk reaction from folks.

No folks are discussing it here. And we really don't agree with it being brought up without merit. Unless you have a specific allegation with back-up, it is rather trolling to just "mention" it. Otherwise, what are you trying to say? (And, btw, I don't consider you a troll, of course.)

 

[Luxilon Borg]

...someone in a group mentioning performance enhancing drugs or some unsavory comparison to Lance Armstrong? I grow weary of these discussions.

Anybody else encounter this?

No, and I believe you're the first to mention it here recently. It's akin to trolling, as I see it.

No trolling intended..call me a cynic in life...but I'm an idealist in regards to tennis. I'm trying to understand why there is such a knee jerk reaction from folks.

No folks are discussing it here. And we really don't agree with it being brought up without merit. Unless you have a specific allegation with back-up, it is rather trolling to just "mention" it. Otherwise, what are you trying to say? (And, btw, I don't consider you a troll, of course.)

Here is what I meant. When I discuss Nadal's latest record shattering results at my club with a group players...someone always brings up juicing. Without any valid information to back it up.

Why is that?

Maybe it is based on jealousy, or maybe they just can't process his game as anything resembling mortal.

I was wonder out loud why people spew this kind of stuff.

 

[Moxie]

...someone in a group mentioning performance enhancing drugs or some unsavory comparison to Lance Armstrong? I grow weary of these discussions.

Anybody else encounter this?

No, and I believe you're the first to mention it here recently. It's akin to trolling, as I see it.

No trolling intended..call me a cynic in life...but I'm an idealist in regards to tennis. I'm trying to understand why there is such a knee jerk reaction from folks.

No folks are discussing it here. And we really don't agree with it being brought up without merit. Unless you have a specific allegation with back-up, it is rather trolling to just "mention" it. Otherwise, what are you trying to say? (And, btw, I don't consider you a troll, of course.)

Here is what I meant. When I discuss Nadal's latest record shattering results at my club with a group players...someone always brings up juicing. Without any valid information to back it up.

Why is that?

Maybe it is based on jealousy, or maybe they just can't process his game as anything resembling mortal.

I was wonder out loud why people spew this kind of stuff.

Well, that crap has a life of its own on the internet, but it is really just jealousy, IMO. Tell your club friends this:

* If Rafa was juicing, to be bulked up and have great endurance, he would have started before he was 16-17. What are the chances that his family, whom he has always lived with, and his uncle, who has always been his coach, would have allowed that?

* If the above is true, then his body-type (look at the men on his paternal line) is his own, and his stamina is, as well.

* If he's "juiced" in recent years, for recovery, then why is there a marked difference in his stamina? No change in his body-type? No aggressive tendencies, and no bad skin?

Front will come back with some counter to this, but I stand by the notion that his family wouldn't allow it, bottom line.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

its not really up for discussion because,

1. we have no proof of drugs/doping of nadal.

2. its usually started from a position of hate.

3. atp silent bans like Mario cilic moved the goalposts..now anyone who might claim to be injured/missing off tour could be on a drugs charge pending an appeal. (cilic hid behind knee injury).

4. its often started by haterz (with a zed) who are looking to belittle/trash a rival player of whoever therrr fav is..whaaa nadal has muscles and is never tired..djokovic went from weakling to iron man in 2011. (see point 1 or 2).

5. atp/itf now bringing in biological passport backdated to earlier this year but fully up by September has quietened the debate...for now.

6. its just a tumbleweed of verbal vomit that goes nowhere fast.

7. its just not tennis old chap.

8. no-one wants to think about it really as its depressing and obtuse, I mean drugs..wut ?..whaddaya want me to do about it eh ?..I dunno nuffin squire.

9. its more fun laughing at bomas turdychs high pitched monotone skeletor whine and skeletor face (when he smiles), and his long necked girlfriend (E.T. phone hooooome).

10. drugs lead to dull lengthy lists like this..thats nogood boyo.

11. drugz iz for mugz (innit).

12. dan maskell and bud Collins say drugs are not happening and they are never to be questioned..ever. (dan is deceased but you get the drift).

 

[Luxilon Borg]

No, and I believe you're the first to mention it here recently. It's akin to trolling, as I see it.

No trolling intended..call me a cynic in life...but I'm an idealist in regards to tennis. I'm trying to understand why there is such a knee jerk reaction from folks.

No folks are discussing it here. And we really don't agree with it being brought up without merit. Unless you have a specific allegation with back-up, it is rather trolling to just "mention" it. Otherwise, what are you trying to say? (And, btw, I don't consider you a troll, of course.)

Here is what I meant. When I discuss Nadal's latest record shattering results at my club with a group players...someone always brings up juicing. Without any valid information to back it up.

Why is that?

Maybe it is based on jealousy, or maybe they just can't process his game as anything resembling mortal.

I was wonder out loud why people spew this kind of stuff.

Well, that crap has a life of its own on the internet, but it is really just jealousy, IMO. Tell your club friends this:

* If Rafa was juicing, to be bulked up and have great endurance, he would have started before he was 16-17. What are the chances that his family, whom he has always lived with, and his uncle, who has always been his coach, would have allowed that?

* If the above is true, then his body-type (look at the men on his paternal line) is his own, and his stamina is, as well.

* If he's "juiced" in recent years, for recovery, then why is there a marked difference in his stamina? No change in his body-type? No aggressive tendencies, and no bad skin?

Front will come back with some counter to this, but I stand by the notion that his family wouldn't allow it, bottom line.

I personally agree.

But I will say that sometimes in life you are surprised by what people will do to succeed.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

its not really up for discussion because,

1. we have no proof of drugs/doping of nadal.

2. its usually started from a position of hate.

3. atp silent bans like Mario cilic moved the goalposts..now anyone who might claim to be injured/missing off tour could be on a drugs charge pending an appeal. (cilic hid behind knee injury).

4. its often started by haterz (with a zed) who are looking to belittle/trash a rival player of whoever therrr fav is..whaaa nadal has muscles and is never tierd..djokovic went from weakling to iron man in 2011. (see point 1 or 2).

5. atp/itf now bringing in biological passport backdated to earlier this year but fully up by September has quietened the debate...for now.

6. its just a tumbleweed of verbal vomit that goes nowhere fast.

7. its just not tennis old chap.

8. no-one wants to think about it really as its depressing and obtuse, I mean drugs..wut ?..whaddaya want me to do about it eh ?..I dunno nuffin squire.

9. its more fun laughing at bomas turdychs high pitched monotone skeletor whine and skeletor face (when he smiles), and his long necked girlfriend (E.T. phone hooooome).

10. drugs lead to dull lengthy lists like this..thats nogood boyo.

11. drugz iz for mugz (innit).

12. dan maskell and bud Collins say drugs are not happening and they are never to be questioned..ever. (dan is deceased but you get the drift).

Ah, well done.

 

[Moxie]

No trolling intended..call me a cynic in life...but I'm an idealist in regards to tennis. I'm trying to understand why there is such a knee jerk reaction from folks.

No folks are discussing it here. And we really don't agree with it being brought up without merit. Unless you have a specific allegation with back-up, it is rather trolling to just "mention" it. Otherwise, what are you trying to say? (And, btw, I don't consider you a troll, of course.)

Here is what I meant. When I discuss Nadal's latest record shattering results at my club with a group players...someone always brings up juicing. Without any valid information to back it up.

Why is that?

Maybe it is based on jealousy, or maybe they just can't process his game as anything resembling mortal.

I was wonder out loud why people spew this kind of stuff.

Well, that crap has a life of its own on the internet, but it is really just jealousy, IMO. Tell your club friends this:

* If Rafa was juicing, to be bulked up and have great endurance, he would have started before he was 16-17. What are the chances that his family, whom he has always lived with, and his uncle, who has always been his coach, would have allowed that?

* If the above is true, then his body-type (look at the men on his paternal line) is his own, and his stamina is, as well.

* If he's "juiced" in recent years, for recovery, then why is there a marked difference in his stamina? No change in his body-type? No aggressive tendencies, and no bad skin?

Front will come back with some counter to this, but I stand by the notion that his family wouldn't allow it, bottom line.

I personally agree.

But I will say that sometimes in life you are surprised by what people will do to succeed.

JLLB put it more eloquently and weirdly, in his own unique way, but which speaks to how unfair the question is.

I like this one: 11. drugz iz for mugz (innit).

And if you feel suspicious, then what accounts for Djokovic's stunning 2011? I say that only to say this: what it takes a tennis player to solve the problems of his best rivals, I don't think you get by juice. It takes court savvy, bravery, tennis IQ, and a great deal of chutzpah, which I don't think you get by juicing. If it could be done by nefarious means, then wouldn't Berdych have done more?

 

[Moxie]

No folks are discussing it here. And we really don't agree with it being brought up without merit. Unless you have a specific allegation with back-up, it is rather trolling to just "mention" it. Otherwise, what are you trying to say? (And, btw, I don't consider you a troll, of course.)

Here is what I meant. When I discuss Nadal's latest record shattering results at my club with a group players...someone always brings up juicing. Without any valid information to back it up.

Why is that?

Maybe it is based on jealousy, or maybe they just can't process his game as anything resembling mortal.

I was wonder out loud why people spew this kind of stuff.

Well, that crap has a life of its own on the internet, but it is really just jealousy, IMO. Tell your club friends this:

* If Rafa was juicing, to be bulked up and have great endurance, he would have started before he was 16-17. What are the chances that his family, whom he has always lived with, and his uncle, who has always been his coach, would have allowed that?

* If the above is true, then his body-type (look at the men on his paternal line) is his own, and his stamina is, as well.

* If he's "juiced" in recent years, for recovery, then why is there a marked difference in his stamina? No change in his body-type? No aggressive tendencies, and no bad skin?

Front will come back with some counter to this, but I stand by the notion that his family wouldn't allow it, bottom line.

I personally agree.

But I will say that sometimes in life you are surprised by what people will do to succeed.

JLLB put it more eloquently and weirdly, in his own unique way, but which speaks to how unfair the question is.

I like this one: 11. drugz iz for mugz (innit).

And if you feel suspicious, then what accounts for Djokovic's stunning 2011? I say that only to say this: what it takes a tennis player to solve the problems of his best rivals, I don't think you get by juice. It takes court savvy, bravery, tennis IQ, and a great deal of chutzpah, which I don't think you get by juicing. If it could be done by nefarious means, then wouldn't Berdych have done more? Or Tsonga?

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Here is what I meant. When I discuss Nadal's latest record shattering results at my club with a group players...someone always brings up juicing. Without any valid information to back it up.

Why is that?

Maybe it is based on jealousy, or maybe they just can't process his game as anything resembling mortal.

I was wonder out loud why people spew this kind of stuff.

Well, that crap has a life of its own on the internet, but it is really just jealousy, IMO. Tell your club friends this:

* If Rafa was juicing, to be bulked up and have great endurance, he would have started before he was 16-17. What are the chances that his family, whom he has always lived with, and his uncle, who has always been his coach, would have allowed that?

* If the above is true, then his body-type (look at the men on his paternal line) is his own, and his stamina is, as well.

* If he's "juiced" in recent years, for recovery, then why is there a marked difference in his stamina? No change in his body-type? No aggressive tendencies, and no bad skin?

Front will come back with some counter to this, but I stand by the notion that his family wouldn't allow it, bottom line.

I personally agree.

But I will say that sometimes in life you are surprised by what people will do to succeed.

JLLB put it more eloquently and weirdly, in his own unique way, but which speaks to how unfair the question is.

I like this one: 11. drugz iz for mugz (innit).

And if you feel suspicious, then what accounts for Djokovic's stunning 2011? I say that only to say this: what it takes a tennis player to solve the problems of his best rivals, I don't think you get by juice. It takes court savvy, bravery, tennis IQ, and a great deal of chutzpah, which I don't think you get by juicing. If it could be done by nefarious means, then wouldn't Berdych have done more? Or Tsonga?

I'm not suspicious, but clearly many are. The rumor swirled around Armstrong for years, and they turned out to be true.

My theory is that they were unrelenting in their pursuit of him because he was an asshole.

Clearly drugs are, and have been a part of many sports..boxing, the Olympics, baseball, football, track and field, etc., but tennis has has always been unique in that the respect of and for your peers is paramount, the testing is pretty invasive, and the, let's face it, keeping a secret in such a global sport like ours would be virtually impossible.

 

[Moxie]

Well, that crap has a life of its own on the internet, but it is really just jealousy, IMO. Tell your club friends this:

* If Rafa was juicing, to be bulked up and have great endurance, he would have started before he was 16-17. What are the chances that his family, whom he has always lived with, and his uncle, who has always been his coach, would have allowed that?

* If the above is true, then his body-type (look at the men on his paternal line) is his own, and his stamina is, as well.

* If he's "juiced" in recent years, for recovery, then why is there a marked difference in his stamina? No change in his body-type? No aggressive tendencies, and no bad skin?

Front will come back with some counter to this, but I stand by the notion that his family wouldn't allow it, bottom line.

I personally agree.

But I will say that sometimes in life you are surprised by what people will do to succeed.

JLLB put it more eloquently and weirdly, in his own unique way, but which speaks to how unfair the question is.

I like this one: 11. drugz iz for mugz (innit).

And if you feel suspicious, then what accounts for Djokovic's stunning 2011? I say that only to say this: what it takes a tennis player to solve the problems of his best rivals, I don't think you get by juice. It takes court savvy, bravery, tennis IQ, and a great deal of chutzpah, which I don't think you get by juicing. If it could be done by nefarious means, then wouldn't Berdych have done more? Or Tsonga?

I'm not suspicious, but clearly many are. The rumor swirled around Armstrong for years, and they turned out to be true.

My theory is that they were unrelenting in their pursuit of him because he was an asshole.

Clearly drugs are, and have been a part of many sports..boxing, the Olympics, baseball, football, track and field, etc., but tennis has has always been unique in that the respect of and for your peers is paramount, the testing is pretty invasive, and the, let's face it, keeping a secret in such a global sport like ours would be virtually impossible.

So you're saying that it's unlikely that the top guys in tennis are juicing, or most, actually. But even bringing it up DOES cast aspersions. I guess you bring it up because people ask about it. Which is worthwhile, at least to give us the chance to say that the case for tennis is reasonably weak, particularly amongst the elite.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I don't see how pros can get away with it these days with all the testing. Of course there is the issue of masking agents always being ahead of the testing but I cannot imagine a pro risking it. I am not sure how the testing works for players in challengers and stuff though. I bring it up because I was recently reading an article where a hockey coach was saying the juniors had a much bigger drug problem than pros because the pressure to make it to the big leagues is huge. In tennis, that would be the satellites and challengers.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I don't see how pros can get away with it these days with all the testing. Of course there is the issue of masking agents always being ahead of the testing but I cannot imagine a pro risking it. I am not sure how the testing works for players in challengers and stuff though. I bring it up because I was recently reading an article where a hockey coach was saying the juniors had a much bigger drug problem than pros because the pressure to make it to the big leagues is huge. In tennis, that would be the satellites and challengers.

Interesting points....all.

I also don't see how they could get away with it...with all the scrutiny and the risk they could lose it all, and destroy the sport.

 

[Moxie]

I don't see how pros can get away with it these days with all the testing. Of course there is the issue of masking agents always being ahead of the testing but I cannot imagine a pro risking it. I am not sure how the testing works for players in challengers and stuff though. I bring it up because I was recently reading an article where a hockey coach was saying the juniors had a much bigger drug problem than pros because the pressure to make it to the big leagues is huge. In tennis, that would be the satellites and challengers.

I do agree that the pressure/temptation would be higher on the lower ranked players, where they're scraping for a living.

As to the elite, I've never been able to buy that the likes of Federer, Nadal, Djokovic or Murray would do it, when what they already have is so much talent, tennis IQ and natural athleticism over the field, which drugs can't give you. And on top of it, they get tested so often, and they have so much to lose.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I personally agree.

But I will say that sometimes in life you are surprised by what people will do to succeed.

JLLB put it more eloquently and weirdly, in his own unique way, but which speaks to how unfair the question is.

I like this one: 11. drugz iz for mugz (innit).

And if you feel suspicious, then what accounts for Djokovic's stunning 2011? I say that only to say this: what it takes a tennis player to solve the problems of his best rivals, I don't think you get by juice. It takes court savvy, bravery, tennis IQ, and a great deal of chutzpah, which I don't think you get by juicing. If it could be done by nefarious means, then wouldn't Berdych have done more? Or Tsonga?

I'm not suspicious, but clearly many are. The rumor swirled around Armstrong for years, and they turned out to be true.

My theory is that they were unrelenting in their pursuit of him because he was an asshole.

Clearly drugs are, and have been a part of many sports..boxing, the Olympics, baseball, football, track and field, etc., but tennis has has always been unique in that the respect of and for your peers is paramount, the testing is pretty invasive, and the, let's face it, keeping a secret in such a global sport like ours would be virtually impossible.

So you're saying that it's unlikely that the top guys in tennis are juicing, or most, actually. But even bringing it up DOES cast aspersions. I guess you bring it up because people ask about it. Which is worthwhile, at least to give us the chance to say that the case for tennis is reasonably weak, particularly amongst the elite.

Yes, unlikely. And people do ask about it...especially when they see Nadal and compare his physicality to past players and hear about 6 hour matches.

It did not help when a certain journeyman player from Belgium made all sorts of accusations.

Let's not forget Becker accused Muster of Roiding!!!

 

[Moxie]

^ You're not letting this go, and you continue to be quite coy, without actually saying anything concrete. So, who is the Belgian that you're talking about, what did he say? I don't see how Nadal playing long matches makes him different from Djokovic or Federer, against whom he's played long matches. And who have played long matches against others.

And now you bring in Muster. You're seeming to have an agenda, so why don't you just spell it out, because I think some of us, at least JLLB and I have, on our side, made an argument against. And as I've said before, we don't go in for vague implications and slander about use of PEDs around here. If you've got a case, make it, and provide proof. If you're just passing along locker room talk, it doesn't have any place here.

 

[Kieran]

I'm surprised at you, Luxilon. This is a low level swipe.

Either that, or you're mixing with low level ignoramuses...

 

[Ricardo]

^ You're not letting this go, and you continue to be quite coy, without actually saying anything concrete. So, who is the Belgian that you're talking about, what did he say? I don't see how Nadal playing long matches makes him different from Djokovic or Federer, against whom he's played long matches. And who have played long matches against others.

And now you bring in Muster. You're seeming to have an agenda, so why don't you just spell it out, because I think some of us, at least JLLB and I have, on our side, made an argument against. And as I've said before, we don't go in for vague implications and slander about use of PEDs around here. If you've got a case, make it, and provide proof. If you're just passing along locker room talk, it doesn't have any place here.

you are not letting it go either, by going back and forth.

ok, drugs can't give you more talent, touch, court savvy and whatnot, but for sure it gives more physical endurance which is more required these days (how many times have we seen players' performance drop due to exhaustion?). of course nothing is concrete, sport is a big business.... rules are in place to help, though can be bent depending on circumstance. otherwise Agassi's case would've been publicised (wether or not the drugs were recreational).

nobody can point fingers at any particular player without evidence, but it shouldn't be seen as a crime discussing it.