Who will de-throne Novak?

[mrzz]

And he may lose his #1, given that he'll be basically defending everything next year.

This should be in another thread, but just a note: the fact that he scored a ton of points this year does not make his life more difficult in the next, on the contrary, in fact. I won't get in details in order not to hijack the thread with rolling rankings discussions (but please believe me).

 

[Fiero425]

And he may lose his #1, given that he'll be basically defending everything next year.

This should be in another thread, but just a note: the fact that he scored a ton of points this year does not make his life more difficult in the next, on the contrary, in fact. I won't get in details in order not to hijack the thread with rolling rankings discussions (but please believe me).

That is the worst part of having a great year, there's only one place to go unless your competition really falls on their faces and I doubt Andy, Roger, Rafa, Kei, Milos, and the rest will do that for him! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Moxie]

Novak will be on the decline by the middle of next year if not sooner. As for who will take advantage...maybe Murray or Nadal for a short bit. As for the next dominant #1 who rules for a long time after Nole...no clue.

OK, everyone has already taken the piss out of you for this one, but I'll ask...based on what? He's a superb athlete, generally suffers no injuries, and is only just about to turn 28. There may be a lot more push-pull with the undercards, who are trying to rise up. (The revolution!) And he may lose his #1, given that he'll be basically defending everything next year. But "decline?" That's not really on the horizon. I doubt you'll see him lose a step before 30.

I kind of answered this in other responses in this thread to Billie. Remember I said by the middle of next year which is around the time he turns 29. And 29 is old for tennis, always has been especially with the top tier. Ferrer is about the only exception I can think of except for maybe Agassi (and we know the story with him).

I will flip this around and say what makes people think Novak won't decline before he's 30? He is about to turn 28 and if his current form holds up he will be by far the best 28 year old player we've ever seen. Roger turned 28 after winning Wimbledon 2009, and then he won AO 5 months after his birthday. And it was all downhill in a hurry after that. So, for starters, what makes you think he will age a whole lot better than Roger did?

Ah, so that's the measuring stick? Roger won Wimbledon in 2012, so it wasn't all downhill. Djokovic will age better than Federer, IMO, in part because he doesn't have the same problem with Nadal, and because Nadal is fading. And so is Fed. The youngsters are coming up, but not that fast. Also, Novak has played 461 fewer matches in his career than Fed, and 199 fewer than Nadal. Even discounting the age differences, that's a little fresher. There is something to be said for peaking later.

 

[DarthFed]

OK, everyone has already taken the piss out of you for this one, but I'll ask...based on what? He's a superb athlete, generally suffers no injuries, and is only just about to turn 28. There may be a lot more push-pull with the undercards, who are trying to rise up. (The revolution!) And he may lose his #1, given that he'll be basically defending everything next year. But "decline?" That's not really on the horizon. I doubt you'll see him lose a step before 30.

I kind of answered this in other responses in this thread to Billie. Remember I said by the middle of next year which is around the time he turns 29. And 29 is old for tennis, always has been especially with the top tier. Ferrer is about the only exception I can think of except for maybe Agassi (and we know the story with him).

I will flip this around and say what makes people think Novak won't decline before he's 30? He is about to turn 28 and if his current form holds up he will be by far the best 28 year old player we've ever seen. Roger turned 28 after winning Wimbledon 2009, and then he won AO 5 months after his birthday. And it was all downhill in a hurry after that. So, for starters, what makes you think he will age a whole lot better than Roger did?

Ah, so that's the measuring stick? Roger won Wimbledon in 2012, so it wasn't all downhill. Djokovic will age better than Federer, IMO, in part because he doesn't have the same problem with Nadal, and because Nadal is fading. And so is Fed. The youngsters are coming up, but not that fast. Also, Novak has played 461 fewer matches in his career than Fed, and 199 fewer than Nadal. Even discounting the age differences, that's a little fresher. There is something to be said for peaking later.

By decline I'm talking his level of play will go down and yes his results will suffer because of that. I'm not saying he will become irrelevant or will only win 1-2 slams after this year but it is reasonable to expect a drop in his ability by 29. He will still be fast but just simply lose half a step and it will make a world of difference.

Roger going downhill after 2010 AO had nothing to do with Nadal, Djokovic, or any one player. He went from 8 straight slam finals and 23 straight semis to losing in the QF of consecutive majors to Soderling and Berd. I think if you told anyone coming into 2010 that Roger would get blown out at Wimbledon by Berdych you'd have invoked a huge fit of laughter. Nole is 6 years younger than Roger but 461 matches is just 77 per year, that's probably around his average if not under.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

^^yes..theories about skeletor beating the fedster at Wimbledon would not have been acceptable.

 

[Billie]

Didn't Tomas beat Federer when he was very young or just starting his pro career? Must be Federer wasn't in his prime then. I always get confused when his prime exactly was.

 

[I.Haychew]

At this point, I don't see anyone beating him other than himself...his alter ego "Master Bates".

 

[Fiero425]

Didn't Tomas beat Federer when he was very young or just starting his pro career? Must be Federer wasn't in his prime then. I always get confused when his prime exactly was.

That was in 2010 and Roger had already shown signs of being "past it!" He took his last W in 2012 and he's only been close one other time! To lose a grass match to Berdych had to be embarrassing since he's only a clone of Lendl who never "got it!" That made for a horrible final hoping Tomas could cash in and take out Nadal! It didn't happen as we well know; 2nd tier just stinks for the most part, hence "The Big 4!" :cover uzzled :nono :dodgy:

 

[Moxie]

At this point, I don't see anyone beating him other than himself...his alter ego "Master Bates".

But he can be his own worst enemy in this way. I would say this is his Achilles heel. He gets down on himself before he should, and he's also inclined to get ahead of himself in the draw. This is where the player-to-be-named-later might catch him at RG. Just when he's already pictured himself into the next round.

 

[Billie]

Didn't Tomas beat Federer when he was very young or just starting his pro career? Must be Federer wasn't in his prime then. I always get confused when his prime exactly was.

That was in 2010 and Roger had already shown signs of being "past it!" He took his last W in 2012 and he's only been close one other time! To lose a grass match to Berdych had to be embarrassing since he's only a clone of Lendl who never "got it!" That made for a horrible final hoping Tomas could cash in and take out Nadal! It didn't happen as we well know; 2nd tier just stinks for the most part, hence "The Big 4!" :cover uzzled :nono :dodgy:

I love your passion Fiero:angel: They all lose sometimes, did anybody really think Soderling had a chance in Paris in 2009 against the king of clay? Who predicted Nole losing to Stan the man in Australia in 2014? Federer also had back problems at the time, so it was all combined together.

 

[Fiero425]

At this point, I don't see anyone beating him other than himself...his alter ego "Master Bates".

But he can be his own worst enemy in this way. I would say this is his Achilles heel. He gets down on himself before he should, and he's also inclined to get ahead of himself in the draw. This is where the player-to-be-named-later might catch him at RG. Just when he's already pictured himself into the next round.

He's got best of 5 to "shake it off" just like Rafa's been doing for years, again and again against the dregs of the ATP! I have faith that Nole has gotten over the hump and will recover if he starts out a bit shaky! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[I.Haychew]

At this point, I don't see anyone beating him other than himself...his alter ego "Master Bates".

He gets down on himself before he should, and he's also inclined to get ahead of himself.

Master Bates agrees and thinks that this is really funny.

I've taken this to a place where it should have never cum.

 

[Billie]

At this point, I don't see anyone beating him other than himself...his alter ego "Master Bates".

But he can be his own worst enemy in this way. I would say this is his Achilles heel. He gets down on himself before he should, and he's also inclined to get ahead of himself in the draw. This is where the player-to-be-named-later might catch him at RG. Just when he's already pictured himself into the next round.

Disagree, completely. Maybe when he was younger he was lacking some serious mental resolve. He temporarily gets down on himself now, but usually he snaps out of it during the same match. He has repeatedly said that he never takes anything for granted, not a single win, a single title and doesn't look ahead of the next match he has. If he is physically healthy, his biggest problem can be his mind, he doesn't think clearly, he is a bit grumpy on the court and he doesn't make the right choices all due to nerves, fear, or mental exhaustion, not because he is overlooking anything. Being professional is exactly that, not to overlook anything that is in your control or anybody on your path.

Compare his tournament in Miami with Rome and if you are a good observer you will see some big differences in his behaviour and the way he played in these 2 tournaments. Miami was 2nd in back to back Masters 1000 tournaments (plus DC a week before and Dubai the week before that - lots of tennis and lots of travelling beforehand) and Paris he played after 3 weeks of rest. Even if his first 3 matches went to 3 sets in Rome, he never changed his attitude, was not upset at all, just went to work calmly. His game improved as the matches went on and his easiest matches were in the last two rounds (where logically it would be the other way around). In Miami it was the other way around...and frankly he was grumpy, angry and temperamental the whole week there.

I've learned that if he says he needs rest, he really does mean it. I really thought he would force himself to play Madrid given how big the donation from Tiriac to Nole's flood relief efforts last year after Rome was. But he wasn't ready and decided against playing. Looks like a good decision so far.

 

[Moxie]

At this point, I don't see anyone beating him other than himself...his alter ego "Master Bates".

But he can be his own worst enemy in this way. I would say this is his Achilles heel. He gets down on himself before he should, and he's also inclined to get ahead of himself in the draw. This is where the player-to-be-named-later might catch him at RG. Just when he's already pictured himself into the next round.

He's got best of 5 to "shake it off" just like Rafa's been doing for years, again and again against the dregs of the ATP! I have faith that Nole has gotten over the hump and will recover if he starts out a bit shaky! :angel: :dodgy:

Most likely you're right. Nole's shaky still beats everyone coming, these days.

 

[TsarMatt]

Honestly, I have no idea. Even though I haven't watched tennis with much frequent regularity this year, Djokovic has been remarkable. Truly incredible year so far.

 

[isabelle]

Right now, the only realistic answer is Murray, and even that isn't too realistic. So unless Nadal has another 2013 in him, which is highly doubtful, there doesn't seem to be anyone on the horizon.

Agree with you, only king Andy can detrone Nole

 

[britbox]

Didn't Tomas beat Federer when he was very young or just starting his pro career? Must be Federer wasn't in his prime then. I always get confused when his prime exactly was.

That was in 2010 and Roger had already shown signs of being "past it!" He took his last W in 2012 and he's only been close one other time! To lose a grass match to Berdych had to be embarrassing since he's only a clone of Lendl who never "got it!" That made for a horrible final hoping Tomas could cash in and take out Nadal! It didn't happen as we well know; 2nd tier just stinks for the most part, hence "The Big 4!" :cover uzzled :nono :dodgy:

Yeah, 2010 - same year Berd knocked out prime Djoker on the same court in straight sets.

 

[nehmeth]

Didn't Tomas beat Federer when he was very young or just starting his pro career? Must be Federer wasn't in his prime then. I always get confused when his prime exactly was.

That was in 2010 and Roger had already shown signs of being "past it!" He took his last W in 2012 and he's only been close one other time! To lose a grass match to Berdych had to be embarrassing since he's only a clone of Lendl who never "got it!" That made for a horrible final hoping Tomas could cash in and take out Nadal! It didn't happen as we well know; 2nd tier just stinks for the most part, hence "The Big 4!" :cover uzzled :nono :dodgy:

Yeah, 2010 - same year Berd knocked out prime Djoker on the same court in straight sets.

.... yes, "prime" Djoker! And without an injury excuse either!! :snicker

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ywm916KQq8[/video]

:cover :cover

 

[brokenshoelace]

I mean, that was prime Djokovic. It's not my fault he wasted a couple of years by being relatively sub par. He reached a major final 2 months after his loss to Berdych and became the best player in the world 4 months after that. Like I said earlier, prime and peak level are not the same.

 

[britbox]

^Prime was a bit of dig at my good friend Billie... and the remainder of the post was a reminder to Fiero.

but let's not sweat it.. Novak was a major winner out of short trousers and closer to his prime than Federer in 2010.

..and Berd might get ridiculed by some as "easy opposition" for Nadal but he went through Federer AND Djokovic to get there. He earned his place on the top table.