Which has been greater at the US Open: Nadal's overachieving or Djokovic's/Federer's underachieving?

[calitennis127]

This thread shouldn’t exist to begin with.

Agreed. If Nadal hadn't overachieved so much at the US Open, I would not have felt compelled to start it.

 

[calitennis127]

Anyways back to the topic, Nadal actually has UNDERACHIEVED at the USO because he had to miss many years in his prime such as 2012, 2014, retiring during 2018, etc. And Federer/Djokovic have OVERACHIEVED there because they have been very lucky in terms of health and obviously because they played the USO a few years without King Rafa there. So the original poster has got it all wrong. :cuckoo:

Nadal retired because he was tired after the Thiem match and he was getting his ass kicked. The year before he got a tired Delpo but I don't see you putting an asterisk by that victory.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal retired because he was tired after the Thiem match and he was getting his ass kicked. The year before he got a tired Delpo but I don't see you putting an asterisk by that victory.

Nadal skipped the rest of the season.

 

[calitennis127]

Nadal skipped the rest of the season.

So what's your point? He almost always has had a limited schedule after the US Open. That's nothing new. He knows he is unlikely to win indoors and he is saving his energy for the spring, which is where his bread is buttered.

 

[Moxie]

So what's your point? He almost always has had a limited schedule after the US Open. That's nothing new. He knows he is unlikely to win indoors and he is saving his energy for the spring, which is where his bread is buttered.

Now you really do have your head in the sand. (Or wherever.) He has only shut down his year due to injury, and you say it's merely to rest. What ever happened to "Most Fit of All Time?" I thought he needs no rest.

 

[calitennis127]

Now you really do have your head in the sand. (Or wherever.) He has only shut down his year due to injury, and you say it's merely to rest. What ever happened to "Most Fit of All Time?" I thought he needs no rest.

He absolutely is the MFOAT. No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean he never gets hurt or doesn't pace himself.

Moxie.....ask yourself this question: if indoors was really a priority for Nadal or if he thought he could get major points there, do you think he would always come up with an excuse to play such a limited schedule? It's funny how he is never injured for Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome, Madrid, or Roland Garros, isn't it?

But then every September he comes down with an injury that is impossible to play through. That has happened too many times to be a coincidence.

As for his unquestionable stamina, look at some of what Nadal has pulled off in his career.....beating Federer after a 5-set marathon with Verdasco even though Federer had an extra day of rest. Or reaching the Wimbledon final after a 5-day match with Soderling. The list is endless.

The simple fact is that Nadal has gotten his ass kicked so many times on indoor hards that he sees his chances of winning as very limited. He knows he is likely only going to get to the quarters or semis before being bounced. So he weighs doing that with taking the week off to re-charge his batteries and ensure that he is at full strength at the start of the new year. These are clearly his calculations because we have seen them repeatedly from him.

 

[Moxie]

^ He retired out of RG due to injury in 2016, I remember that. As to the rest, you really should re-read what you wrote. It is kinda childish to pretend that you can read all of that out of Nadal's mind, as opposed to what he has actually said about injury.

 

[brokenshoelace]

So what's your point? He almost always has had a limited schedule after the US Open. That's nothing new. He knows he is unlikely to win indoors and he is saving his energy for the spring, which is where his bread is buttered.

Ah yes so retiring then missing the rest of the season does not in any way indicate injury. Sure.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The guy with the super human stamina who only wins matches due to superior conditioning and never gets tired couldn’t play one more set due to fatigue according to our resident stamina and black culture expert (can’t wait for the lecture on the latter).

 

[Nadalfan2013]

The guy with the super human stamina who only wins matches due to superior conditioning and never gets tired couldn’t play one more set due to fatigue according to our resident stamina and black culture expert (can’t wait for the lecture on the latter).

Excellent post!

 

[calitennis127]

Ah yes so retiring then missing the rest of the season does not in any way indicate injury. Sure.

Lol.....no one said he was in perfect health dumbass. But if he had been playing Schwartzman in the semifinal instead of Del Potro, do you think he would have retired? Do you think if Djokovic was playing Millman instead of Wawrinka in the R16 do you think he would have retired?

The point is that Nadal was tired after the match with Thiem and Delpo is a tough match-up for him on any day. He fell behind 2 sets to 0, and like Djokovic against Wawrinka, he saw that he had no chance of winning so he simply retired.

Taking time off isn't always just a matter of health.....a combination of factors go into it. Nadal has never done particularly well at the end of the season and he clearly prefers to focus on getting ready for Melbourne. Combine that with some nagging injuries, his huge number of points from the clay season, and of course he is going to take some time off.

 

[Andy22]

Lol.....no one said he was in perfect health dumbass. But if he had been playing Schwartzman in the semifinal instead of Del Potro, do you think he would have retired? Do you think if Djokovic was playing Millman instead of Wawrinka in the R16 do you think he would have retired?

The point is that Nadal was tired after the match with Thiem and Delpo is a tough match-up for him on any day. He fell behind 2 sets to 0, and like Djokovic against Wawrinka, he saw that he had no chance of winning so he simply retired.

Taking time off isn't always just a matter of health.....a combination of factors go into it. Nadal has never done particularly well at the end of the season and he clearly prefers to focus on getting ready for Melbourne. Combine that with some nagging injuries, his huge number of points from the clay season, and of course he is going to take some time off.

your not winning anyone over here bro your on 0 points

 

[calitennis127]

The guy with the super human stamina who only wins matches due to superior conditioning and never gets tired couldn’t play one more set due to fatigue according to our resident stamina and black culture expert (can’t wait for the lecture on the latter).

It really is funny that Nadal is your favorite player - because you could not be any more different from him in so many key respects. Nadal was down 2 sets to 0 and knew that in his current condition he had no chance of coming back, so rather than get humiliated in a third set, he simply retired and got off the court. He did this in part for the same reason that LeBron (do you know who that is Moxie?) came out with a cast on his hand to the press conference after Game 4 of the 2018 NBA Finals.....to put an asterisk in everyone's mind next to the opponent's victory.

For all your picking on Front, he has a better read on Nadal's mindset than you do. For you to act like there is no gamesmanship or mind game-playing on his part is beyond ridiculous. Of course Nadal engages in these things. With as competitive as Nadal is, do you seriously think he wanted Delpo to put a 6-1 or 6-0 set on him? Of course not. So he got off the court before it happened, all the while putting an excuse in people's minds for why he lost.

As for black sports culture in America, I maintain that you B-Shitty could not possibly be more clueless about it. You don't relate to it or understand it much at all. And I don't blame you for that (you are limited by your experiences), but it is a relevant thing to point out when it comes to the shortcomings of your sports analysis.

 

[calitennis127]

your not winning anyone over here bro your on 0 points

Not far from the number of points Nadal normally gets during the indoor season. So perhaps we are finding common ground.

 

[Andy22]

Not far from the number of points Nadal normally gets during the indoor season. So perhaps we are finding common ground.

maybe we are but do you really think Federer can get close to Djokovic level because does not know how to beat him anymore.

 

[calitennis127]

maybe we are but do you really think Federer can get close to Djokovic level because does not know how to beat him anymore.

Federer always has spurts against Djokovic where he displays superior offensive firepower.....the problem is that the backhand breaks down. So it's really impossible to tell.

When I watch those two play I am very conflicted. Federer at his offensive best is untouchable but it is very hard for him to sustain that level with the backhand being such a weakness. That has always been the case against Djokovic and Nadal for him.....either the backhand is an electrifying offensive weapon or it degenerates into an error machine (more often the latter). Nadal to his credit exposed that back in the days when everyone constantly kissed Federer's ass and described him as though he was a perfect tennis god.....

Those were the days when I used to root for Nadal, before encountering the likes of Moxie, B-Shoddy, and hunting4aclue.

 

[Andy22]

Federer always has spurts against Djokovic where he displays superior offensive firepower.....the problem is that the backhand breaks down. So it's really impossible to tell.

When I watch those two play I am very conflicted. Federer at his offensive best is untouchable but it is very hard for him to sustain that level with the backhand being such a weakness. That has always been the case against Djokovic and Nadal for him.....either the backhand is an electrifying offensive weapon or it degenerates into an error machine (more often the latter). Nadal to his credit exposed that back in the days when everyone constantly kissed Federer's ass and described him as though he was a perfect tennis god.....

Those were the days when I used to root for Nadal, before encountering the likes of Moxie, B-Shoddy, and hunting4aclue.

so stop being a nadal fan becase of this fourm weak dude but wantever people can go for that they what like Federer not winning anymore slams, moxie bugs me sometimes but at least shes a good poster+ stands up for nadal loyalty.

 

[brokenshoelace]

It really is funny that Nadal is your favorite player - because you could not be any more different from him in so many key respects. Nadal was down 2 sets to 0 and knew that in his current condition he had no chance of coming back, so rather than get humiliated in a third set, he simply retired and got off the court. He did this in part for the same reason that LeBron (do you know who that is Moxie?) came out with a cast on his hand to the press conference after Game 4 of the 2018 NBA Finals.....to put an asterisk in everyone's mind next to the opponent's victory.

Ah yes, so the ultimate stamina king, mentally unflappable fight-to-the-death warrior just threw in the towel due to fatigue. Awesome. One of these days you have to start being consistent with your arguments. One of these days.

 

[Moxie]

Nadal retired because he was tired after the Thiem match and he was getting his ass kicked. The year before he got a tired Delpo but I don't see you putting an asterisk by that victory.

You really should look at their relative draws, those years. In 2017, del Potro had it easy (all straights) until he met Thiem in the 4th round. That went 5, but the first 3 sets were not really competitive (1-2-1.) Only the last 2 were. Then he beat Roger in 4, and lost to Rafa in 4. Not really that trying for a top guy with a big serve, in a Major. Whereas, in 2018, Rafa was pressed much harder before he got to JMDP. His 3rd round v. Khachanov was 4 very long tight sets, next a competitive 4-setter v. Basilashvili, and the marathon 5-setter v. Thiem. And in the match v. del Potro, he had the trainer early in the 2nd for his knee...a constant source of consternation.

It is clear that you expend a lot of calories trying to make Nadal look bad, and in buffing his opponents up, but this comparison is particularly glaring. Nadal's road to delPo in 2018 was clearly harder than Juan Martín's path to Rafa in 2017, and yet you excuse JMDP's loss due to "fatigue," and won't for an instant entertain that Nadal was actually injured in 2018, even though he retired from that match, due to knee, and shut down his season. No, for you the answer is that "secretly," he's just saving himself for the next year. Even you should be able to see that that defies logic and doesn't really add up.

 

[Front242]

He absolutely is the MFOAT. No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean he never gets hurt or doesn't pace himself.

Moxie.....ask yourself this question: if indoors was really a priority for Nadal or if he thought he could get major points there, do you think he would always come up with an excuse to play such a limited schedule? It's funny how he is never injured for Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome, Madrid, or Roland Garros, isn't it?

But then every September he comes down with an injury that is impossible to play through. That has happened too many times to be a coincidence.

As for his unquestionable stamina, look at some of what Nadal has pulled off in his career.....beating Federer after a 5-set marathon with Verdasco even though Federer had an extra day of rest. Or reaching the Wimbledon final after a 5-day match with Soderling. The list is endless.

The simple fact is that Nadal has gotten his ass kicked so many times on indoor hards that he sees his chances of winning as very limited. He knows he is likely only going to get to the quarters or semis before being bounced. So he weighs doing that with taking the week off to re-charge his batteries and ensure that he is at full strength at the start of the new year. These are clearly his calculations because we have seen them repeatedly from him.

MFOAT. I like it! Most fucking obscene ass picking twat.