Where Does Djokovic's 2015 Season Stand In History?

[GameSetAndMath]

the 2nd best in terms of big trophys..3majors 6masters 1wtf. behind Lavers 1969 grand slam. Laver won other big tourneys too but he is DID win 4 majors in a year. (no-one else in open era)

top 4ish in terms of win/loss..fedster 92-5, 81-4, McEnroe 82-3, Connors 99-4 in 1974 I think, Djokovic 82-6 (numbers right ?).

Officially it is at #5 in terms win/loss.

JLLB, Sorry my correction is also wrong. It is #6 in terms of Pure win-loss ration. Read the USA today article linked in my previous post.

 

[Mile]

Prize money leaders

Career earning as of November 23, 2015

1. Switzerland Roger Federer $97,303,556 2015
2. Serbia Novak Djokovic $94,050,053 2015
3. Spain Rafael Nadal $75,888,125 2015
4. United States Pete Sampras $43,280,489 2003
5. United Kingdom Andy Murray $42,435,316 2015
6. United States Andre Agassi $31,152,975 2006
7. Spain David Ferrer $28,355,864 2015
8. Germany Boris Becker $25,080,956 1999
9. Russia Yevgeny Kafelnikov $23,883,797 2003
10. Czechoslovakia Tomas Berdych $23,804,551 2015


Per single season :

1. Serbia Novak Djokovic $21,646,145 2015
2. Spain Rafael Nadal $14,570,935 2013
3. Serbia Novak Djokovic $14,250,527 2014
4. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,803,737 2012
5. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,619,803 2011
6. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,447,947 2013
7. Spain Rafael Nadal $10,171,998 2010
8. Switzerland Roger Federer $10,130,620 2007
9. Switzerland Roger Federer $9,343,988 2014
10. Switzerland Roger Federer $8,768,110 2009

 

[nehmeth]

Fed's 2006 tops Novak's 2015 as per this detailed analysis published in USA today . Check out the details yourself. Do you agree?

This is not an "agenda" based analysis. In fact, the author says that when he started writing he thought Novak's 2015 would come out as a victor and it is just a matter of writing it up. But, once
he sat down to analyze, he finds that Fed's 2006 is indeed better than Novak's 2015.

The man is a gushingly unabashed Fed fanatic. He comments on everything from Fed's beard - devoting two (2) articles - one calling it the biggest news at the WTF, to his opinion that Fed is the "greatest sportsman on the planet"

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-beard-keep-it-mirka-like-atp-world-tour-finals-schedule-shave

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-beard-atp-world-tour-finals-novak-djokovic-match-stats

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-sportsmanship-award-fan-favourite-favorite-atp-how-many-years-in-a-row

That's just in the past week alone.

And knowing all this, he picks Fed's 06 by a net cord - in his opinion. Nice try GSM. :snicker

 

[dante1976]

Just as 17>14>10 in GS titles It's 2015>2006 (because in Masters titles it's 6>4 and in GS's and WTF they are equal). Not to mention average rankings of "beaten players" and number of wins against top 10
It's a fact!!! No matter of "view angle" and "deep analysis"

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Fed's 2006 tops Novak's 2015 as per this detailed analysis published in USA today . Check out the details yourself. Do you agree?

This is not an "agenda" based analysis. In fact, the author says that when he started writing he thought Novak's 2015 would come out as a victor and it is just a matter of writing it up. But, once
he sat down to analyze, he finds that Fed's 2006 is indeed better than Novak's 2015.

The man is a gushingly unabashed Fed fanatic. He comments on everything from Fed's beard - devoting two (2) articles - one calling it the biggest news at the WTF, to his opinion that Fed is the "greatest sportsman on the planet"

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-beard-keep-it-mirka-like-atp-world-tour-finals-schedule-shave

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-beard-atp-world-tour-finals-novak-djokovic-match-stats

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/roger-federer-sportsmanship-award-fan-favourite-favorite-atp-how-many-years-in-a-row

That's just in the past week alone.

And knowing all this, he picks Fed's 06 by a net cord - in his opinion. Nice try GSM. :snicker

I did not know the history of the author.

When you look at the bigness of the titles won, clearly 2015 better.

But, when you look at the quality of losses, clearly 2006 is better. After all Fed lost 4 times to Rafa and once to Andy, both of whom are younger and one is King of Clay. But, Novak lost to old man alone three times. There is no shame in losing to Roger. But, there is shame in losing to old Roger.

When you look at the quality of wins, Novak's 2015 is better. He clearly beat lot tougher opponents on the average than Fed in terms of ranking and played top 10 opponents a lot more times.

Also, another thing in Novak's favor is that almost all (except for one) of his losses came in finals. That was not the case for Fed. I think the article does not talk about this point.

Before reading this articles, my personal opinion was that Novak's 2015 is better than Fed's 2006.
But, now I am beginning to rethink. I have not made up my mind.

 

[nehmeth]

GSM, you never hide your leanings toward Fed, but your conclusions are well reasoned. I knew I had read the author before and did a run through of his tennis articles this year. My conclusion is USA Today would do better if they canned this guy and hired you.

 

[Obsi]

According to The Tennis Base these are the Top 10 seasons of all-time:

1. Djokovic 2015
2. Gonzales 1956
3. Federer 2006
4. Laver 1969
5. Rosewall 1963
6. Laver 1962
7. Laver 1967
8. Djokovic 2011
9. McEnroe 1984
10. Federer 2007

https://thetennisbase.com/?enlace=noticias&accion=detalle&codigo=966

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Actually, Roger also had only one loss in 2006 that was not in the finals. Roger's five losses were

1. RG finals to Rafa (clay)
2. Rome finals to Rafa (clay)
3. Montecarlo finals to Rafa (clay)
4. Dubai finals to Rafa (HC)
5. Cincy R32 to Andy (HC)

So, both Novak and Roger had just one non-final loss. So, in that criteria alone it is tied. Actually, the article mentions that as well (contrary to what I said in an earlier post).

I don't know which is best, but definitely whichever it may be, it is only by a net cord.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

If you multiply Fed's 2006 year end points by 2, you get 16,740 (roughly speaking the point value of all tourneys were doubled sometime after 2006). But, Novak's year end points this year is 16,585.
So, Novak has not beaten Roger in largest points accumulation in an year.

Of course, this is just one aspect. But, I do want to state that for the record.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Oh, well. I am willing to accept and declare that Novak's 2015 is better thatn Roger's 2006.
My argument is that at least 50% of the weight should be given to the BIG titles won by Noavk
(2 extra Masters in comparison). All other criteria, such as quality of wins, quality of losses, win-loss ratio, number of titles won etc should split the remaining weight of 50%. Even there Novak does not
draw a blank and wins some points (for example, quality of wins). So, in my weighted scheme
Novak's 2015 definitely wins out over Fed's 2006.

However, by the same token I would have to say that Laver's 1969 trumps Novak's 2015
and so I would disagree with Tennis Base rankings.

Novak's 2015 is #2 next only to Laver's 1969. Roger's 2006 is #3.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

If you multiply Fed's 2006 year end points by 2, you get 16,740 (roughly speaking the point value of all tourneys were doubled sometime after 2006). But, Novak's year end points this year is 16,585.
So, Novak has not beaten Roger in largest points accumulation in an year.

Of course, this is just one aspect. But, I do want to state that for the record.

I think somebody already converted Roger's results from 2006 to the new system and the result was that his total would have been somewhere between 15000 and 16000 depending on how many of the smaller tournaments he won would be considered as 250s and how many as 500s (http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4326&page=4 here the consensus was around 15700), as at that time every tournament below Slams and Masters probably awarded between 200 and 300 points for the winner if I remember correctly.

Here is a detailed list for Federer in 2006 converted into the point system used now:

Doha - 250
AO - 2000
Dubai - 300 (final)
IW - 1000
Miami - 1000
Monte Carlo - 600 (final)
Rome - 600 (final)
RG - 1200 (final)
Halle - 250
Wimbledon - 2000
Canada - 1000
Cincy - 45 (2nd round)
US open - 2000
Tokyo - 500
Madrid - 1000
Basel - 500
WTF - 1500

Result: 15745 (even if you treat Doha and Halle as 500s 16245 would still be below Novak's current total)

In my opinion the comparison of ranking points is the fairest criterion to determine which year was better strictly by the results and Novak leads there because of the additional two masters titles. If you want to include things like level of play, level of dominance and the quality of the wins and losses it gets a lot more subjective and reasonable arguments for and against both years can be made.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Thanks FG for pointing it out.

Doha is still a 250 only. But Halle is a 500 now. That would make Roger's total 15945.

Roger also played Kooyong classic and DC in 2006. Kooyong classic in an exo and does not contribute to points or win loss record, but DC does. But, he played only one leg of DC. So, even if
you add the DC points, Novak's total is higher.

So, we got another clear indicator here that Novak's 2015 is better.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Prize money leaders

Career earning as of November 23, 2015

1. Switzerland Roger Federer $97,303,556 2015
2. Serbia Novak Djokovic $94,050,053 2015
3. Spain Rafael Nadal $75,888,125 2015
4. United States Pete Sampras $43,280,489 2003
5. United Kingdom Andy Murray $42,435,316 2015
6. United States Andre Agassi $31,152,975 2006
7. Spain David Ferrer $28,355,864 2015
8. Germany Boris Becker $25,080,956 1999
9. Russia Yevgeny Kafelnikov $23,883,797 2003
10. Czechoslovakia Tomas Berdych $23,804,551 2015


Per single season :

1. Serbia Novak Djokovic $21,646,145 2015
2. Spain Rafael Nadal $14,570,935 2013
3. Serbia Novak Djokovic $14,250,527 2014
4. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,803,737 2012
5. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,619,803 2011
6. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,447,947 2013
7. Spain Rafael Nadal $10,171,998 2010
8. Switzerland Roger Federer $10,130,620 2007
9. Switzerland Roger Federer $9,343,988 2014
10. Switzerland Roger Federer $8,768,110 2009

The problem with these lists is very basic. Today's $10 is not the same as 1980's $10. That has
much more value. Also, prize money keeps on increasing and so newer stars will tend to be at the
top of these lists. That does not mean they are better players or had a better year than some of the older players.

 

[Kirijax]

Prize money leaders

Career earning as of November 23, 2015

1. Switzerland Roger Federer $97,303,556 2015
2. Serbia Novak Djokovic $94,050,053 2015
3. Spain Rafael Nadal $75,888,125 2015
4. United States Pete Sampras $43,280,489 2003
5. United Kingdom Andy Murray $42,435,316 2015
6. United States Andre Agassi $31,152,975 2006
7. Spain David Ferrer $28,355,864 2015
8. Germany Boris Becker $25,080,956 1999
9. Russia Yevgeny Kafelnikov $23,883,797 2003
10. Czechoslovakia Tomas Berdych $23,804,551 2015


Per single season :

1. Serbia Novak Djokovic $21,646,145 2015
2. Spain Rafael Nadal $14,570,935 2013
3. Serbia Novak Djokovic $14,250,527 2014
4. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,803,737 2012
5. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,619,803 2011
6. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,447,947 2013
7. Spain Rafael Nadal $10,171,998 2010
8. Switzerland Roger Federer $10,130,620 2007
9. Switzerland Roger Federer $9,343,988 2014
10. Switzerland Roger Federer $8,768,110 2009

The problem with these lists is very basic. Today's $10 is not the same as 1980's $10. That has
much more value. Also, prize money keeps on increasing and so newer stars will tend to be at the
top of these lists. That does not mean they are better players or had a better year than some of the older players.

Can someone add up everyone's total in today's dollar value. That would be interesting to see. But still, the way prize money has increased over the years, it's hard to get a good grasp of it all. Still, Djokovic's 21 million is so far out in front, it's nuts. Just more proof of his 2015 season being maybe the best ever.

 

[Fiero425]

Prize money leaders

Career earning as of November 23, 2015

1. Switzerland Roger Federer $97,303,556 2015
2. Serbia Novak Djokovic $94,050,053 2015
3. Spain Rafael Nadal $75,888,125 2015
4. United States Pete Sampras $43,280,489 2003
5. United Kingdom Andy Murray $42,435,316 2015
6. United States Andre Agassi $31,152,975 2006
7. Spain David Ferrer $28,355,864 2015
8. Germany Boris Becker $25,080,956 1999
9. Russia Yevgeny Kafelnikov $23,883,797 2003
10. Czechoslovakia Tomas Berdych $23,804,551 2015


Per single season :

1. Serbia Novak Djokovic $21,646,145 2015
2. Spain Rafael Nadal $14,570,935 2013
3. Serbia Novak Djokovic $14,250,527 2014
4. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,803,737 2012
5. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,619,803 2011
6. Serbia Novak Djokovic $12,447,947 2013
7. Spain Rafael Nadal $10,171,998 2010
8. Switzerland Roger Federer $10,130,620 2007
9. Switzerland Roger Federer $9,343,988 2014
10. Switzerland Roger Federer $8,768,110 2009

The problem with these lists is very basic. Today's $10 is not the same as 1980's $10. That has
much more value. Also, prize money keeps on increasing and so newer stars will tend to be at the
top of these lists. That does not mean they are better players or had a better year than some of the older players.

Can someone add up everyone's total in today's dollar value. That would be interesting to see. But still, the way prize money has increased over the years, it's hard to get a good grasp of it all. Still, Djokovic's $21 million is so far out in front, it's nuts. Just more proof of his 2015 season being maybe the best ever.

Just a few short years ago, Roger was heading all these lists! Now he's being pushed down; sorta like Martina N. by Graf! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[GameSetAndMath]

David Ferrer, the little beast, is silently making so much money. :clap

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Now that I have accepted that Novak's 2015 is better than Fed's 2006. It is time to belittle Novak a little bit.

Someone wrote to John Wurthiem the following paragraph in mailbag section:

"I thought I would take a stab at why Djokovic isn't getting his due: We look at a Djokovic or a Nadal (or Connors, Agassi, etc.) and in our mind's eye, we think: "If I work really hard and play as often as possible, I think I can do that,” however improbable that is. When we look at a Federer, or a McEnroe, or a Laver, we simply sit back and believe we are witness to the majesty that our sport can occasionally produce. We know that no matter how much work we put into the game, there's just some heights that are virtually unattainable, and thus we wax poetic. Announcers gush, writers write, players and poets weep."

Isn't that an accurate an description?

 

[Kieran]

^^No. Because then we look at who Federer beat and think, sheesh, I'd look great against that bunch! :snicker

 

[nehmeth]

Now that I have accepted that Novak's 2015 is better than Fed's 2006. It is time to belittle Novak a little bit.

Someone wrote to John Wurthiem the following paragraph in mailbag section:

"I thought I would take a stab at why Djokovic isn't getting his due: We look at a Djokovic or a Nadal (or Connors, Agassi, etc.) and in our mind's eye, we think: "If I work really hard and play as often as possible, I think I can do that,” however improbable that is. Isn't that an accurate an description?

To some this may be accurate, as it is a matter of opinion. Watching Novak hit the ball, the angles he creates, the way he moves to the ball in time to be able to hit those angles... To watch him step inside a baseline and keep the top players scampering about from side to side on some invisible string that he alone controls?? No. Hard work alone cannot achieve that. :nono

 

[tennisville]

Djokovic 2015 trumps Federer 2006 and is the best season since the ranking system started in 1973