What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[mrzz]

It's also possible Forbes has distorted his opinion

That is the really annoying part of living in today's world. You need to doubt simply everything, because there is always an economic interest behind it, and, yes, I have zero doubt that Forbes distorted his opinion, even if that was not necessary.

the 80% increase meant to be in number of fires (compared to 2018 fire season), whereas the total area burned increased by 7% only, so apparently now as bad. I don't know how to read it, because the news are alarming and if SP becomes dark at full daylight like never before, and if the smoke is so serious that they had to cancel a football match (national sport) like never before, then the problem must be serious from some point of view, right?

Those numbers are basically correct from what you can see on data by INPE. The thing is tricky in the following sense:

Obviously the current govern did not create this problem. It is an old one -- but not less important because of that. Agricultural land is forcing its way over the Amazon for decades, it is an ongoing problem (it is the main source of deforestation, but not the only one). Even a steady are of burning means that deforestation keeps advancing. Anyway, the "new" problem is not the fires, is the fact that now the interests of the ones lighting the fires are completely entrenched within the government. All you need to do is to see from where the ministers come from. So, what the government did to start "the fire season"? Fired the person in charge of INPE.

It could well be that the dark day here in São Paulo (I had a very good view from my window) was actually a climatic coincidence. The 7% increase is probably just the start of a trend. Those guys are making their beds by trying to stop data from being published and by eliminating surveillance and inspections. Then, the "woke" press makes a fuss about the fires themselves, giving those guys the chance to reply that they were always there (which is true). The "battle" is being fought in the wrong field.

 

[mrzz]

What prompted them to start it? What's the point?

This is a long conversation, but is basically a reaction to the left oriented governments in South America.

 

[britbox]

@mrzz What is the feeling in Brazil about refusing financial offers from Europe to assist in tackling the Amazon situation?

 

[mrzz]

@mrzz What is the feeling in Brazil about refusing financial offers from Europe to assist in tackling the Amazon situation?

Brazil is completely polarized so government sympathizers (government support is shrinking by the day) agree with it, basing themselves in some conspiracy theory, while all the rest see the obvious stupidity of it. At the every least it shows the complete diplomatic incompetence of the current government.

Bolsonaro got himself cornered as he (internally) denied the problem so he was forced to refuse external help -- which actually was already there. Some stupid positions of the Braz. government made countries like Germany and Norway cancel funds of years old programs.

I am not sure how clear this is from the outside. Nobody was saying that the current government created the problem -- which is decades old. But the guys were clumsy/stupid enough to say that it didn't exist.

 

[mrzz]

Hey, @brokenshoelace, there are some quite pessimistic reports regarding the possibility of a full war between Israel and Lebanon. First of all, I hope it doesn't happen and that everyone is safe around you. Are those reports exaggerated? How does things look from your perspective?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Hey, @brokenshoelace, there are some quite pessimistic reports regarding the possibility of a full war between Israel and Lebanon. First of all, I hope it doesn't happen and that everyone is safe around you. Are those reports exaggerated? How does things look from your perspective?

There was some very limited fighting over the boarder on Sunday. This stemmed from Hezbollah destroying an Israeli military vehicle (no casualties) in retaliation to an Israeli drone attack in the Beirut suburbs the previous week (also no casualties). The general feeling right now is neither side wants a full scale war (hence the mild nature of both offensives) but that this could end up being a precursor for things to come. For now, the Israelis flat out said they won't escalate the offensive, and Hezbollah got their retaliation so things should be calm for the time being.

 

[mrzz]

First, good to know war is not on the verge of breaking over there, Broken.

Update on the WEPOAT (worst elected president of all time), Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro:

UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, made some statements about the human rights situation in Brazil. Even if I do have my differences with some things that are said about "Human Rights", the points she brought were statistical data, and she spoke institutionally. What our impossibly incompetent, deeply mentally impaired president did -- not personally, but speaking as President, with flags waving behind his back? He answered saying that it was a good thing that the Chilean military government of the 70's and 80's (under Pinochet) killed her father. That was Brazil's institutional answer. Things like this happen every day. I wrote a few posts back that this guys is an embarrassment for conservatives all over the world. No, he is an embarrassment to the human race.

I mean, even if he had a point about what happened in Chile (he doesn't), even if it was a good vs evil battle back then, even still he should not go to personal level. The guy is an absolute retard.

 

[tented]

... even still he should not go to personal level. The guy is an absolute retard.

Bolsonaro, Trump, Boris Johnson ... they personify the title of the thread.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

First, good to know war is not on the verge of breaking over there, Broken.

Update on the WEPOAT (worst elected president of all time), Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro:

UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, made some statements about the human rights situation in Brazil. Even if I do have my differences with some things that are said about "Human Rights", the points she brought were statistical data, and she spoke institutionally. What our impossibly incompetent, deeply mentally impaired president did -- not personally, but speaking as President, with flags waving behind his back? He answered saying that it was a good thing that the Chilean military government of the 70's and 80's (under Pinochet) killed his father. That was Brazil's institutional answer. Things like this happen every day. I wrote a few posts back that this guys is an embarrassment for conservatives all over the world. No, he is an embarrassment to the human race.

I mean, even if he had a point about what happened in Chile (he doesn't), even if it was a good vs evil battle back then, even still he should not go to personal level. The guy is an absolute retard.

It appears typo crept into your post (emphasised), so we need to clarify. Pinochet regime tortured/killed her father (Michelle's father, and Michelle is a woman), as explained in the article:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...naro-michelle-bachelet-brazil-police-killings
So no, the retard did not celebrate the killing of his own father as I originally was shocked. But the response is still bad. Yet not uniquely bad. There is a precedence even in Aus politics, of very similar behaviour. The first Aus female PM (Julia Gillard, Labor), had experienced many abuses from the opposing conservative party members (Liberals). One of the worst (but not the only one), was the comment that her father "died of shame":
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/gillards-father-died-of-shame-alan-jones-20120929-26soa.html
Very similar abuse to the one by the retard you brought here. We may conclude that conservative politicians are likely less smart & less civil than their liberal counterparts, because we have many examples of appalling/stupid conservative behaviours in Bras, Aus, US (no need to quote), but not that many such liberal examples..

 

[mrzz]

Thanks, @Chris Koziarz , for pointing out the typo.

So there seems to be a trend in this personal attacks. Actually it makes sense on this "good vs evil" mentality so common today. Anyway, three things that stand out regarding Bolsonaro: he likes to emphasize death and torture under military dictatorships, which is something particularly painful (actually Michelle Bachelet herself was inpriosionned by Pinochet's regime). Second, he is doing this kind of thing in a constant basis (for example, weeks ago he made a quite similar remark to a Brazilian public figure, actually implying that he knew how his father died, something that it is not clear still today).

But the third aspect is the worst: as I mentioned in my previous post, the problem is that he is not saying those things as Bolsonaro the (something that resembles a) person. He is saying those things as president, in official statements. The measure to which he does not understand politics and geo-politics is absurd.

 

[britbox]

Hong Kong up in flames.



Interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Federberg]

Hong Kong up in flames.



Interesting to see how this plays out.

Xi is in a real bind. Hong Kong is just the starter for him, his focus has to be on the real prize which is Taiwan and his One China policy. Whatever he does in Hong Kong has the potential to spook Taiwanese democratic forces. He can roll the tanks into Hong Kong but that probably eliminates any peaceful chance of getting Taiwan back into the fold. It would be difficult to aggressively move against Taiwan as that could start World War 3. I believe that China has the military capability to take Taiwan, despite an American response, but the costs of that could lead to a global depression (there are massive global supply chains that depend on Taiwan). He may yet be forced to find some face saving way to retreat from Hong Kong, without damaging himself internally. Quite a dilemma!

 

[tented]

Xi is in a real bind. Hong Kong is just the starter for him, his focus has to be on the real prize which is Taiwan and his One China policy. Whatever he does in Hong Kong has the potential to spook Taiwanese democratic forces. He can roll the tanks into Hong Kong but that probably eliminates any peaceful chance of getting Taiwan back into the fold. It would be difficult to aggressively move against Taiwan as that could start World War 3. I believe that China has the military capability to take Taiwan, despite an American response, but the costs of that could lead to a global depression (there are massive global supply chains that depend on Taiwan). He may yet be forced to find some face saving way to retreat from Hong Kong, without damaging himself internally. Quite a dilemma!

I can’t imagine what that would be.

 

[Federberg]

I can’t imagine what that would be.

me neither! And that's scary...

 

[mrzz]

that probably eliminates any peaceful chance of getting Taiwan back into the fold.

Honest question: does anyone ever believed that?

 

[Federberg]

Honest question: does anyone ever believed that?

Not really

 

[Moxie]

Forgive this. I really hate this anniversary in NYC. Every September 11th morning: the bells, the reading of the names, the silences to recognize the worst moments. The remembering. Hard not to get a bit PTSD about it. I thought this was an interesting piece about what luck meant, on that day, or whatever it means. One of my friends overslept that day. Missed his train. Two of my friends escaped because they ignored the "all clear" in the 2nd tower. In terms of the OP..."the world has gone mad"...this was the recent beginning. I'm sorry if that seems like a selfish POV.

 

[mrzz]

This Greta Thunberg is almost turning me into a climate change denier. Large number of kids such as her would make me actively work for complete world annihilation. I don't know who had this bright idea of creating this poster child, but gosh what an asshole.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

This Greta Thunberg is almost turning me into a climate change denier. Large number of kids such as her would make me actively work for complete world annihilation. I don't know who had this bright idea of creating this poster child, but gosh what an asshole.

I don't see any asshole in Greta Thunberg. I don't have any emotional opinion about her because I don't even have time to watch her and her campaign.
So I'm very surprised that she excited an emotion as big as to overwrite the known scientific fact (anthropocentric climate change) in your mind. Can you elaborate what she did to achieve that?

 

[mrzz]

I don't see any asshole in Greta Thunberg. I don't have any emotional opinion about her because I don't even have time to watch her and her campaign.
So I'm very surprised that she excited an emotion as big as to overwrite the known scientific fact (anthropocentric climate change) in your mind. Can you elaborate what she did to achieve that?

The whole point is that the kid does not have a clue about what she is talking about, regardless if this is a fact or not. And, as you know quite well, between the fact you mentioned (anthropocentric climate change) and every little bit of what she and other activists are saying there is quite a distance. This is a serious and complicated conversation, and I am the first to admit that I don't know enough about it to vehemently defend ay point of view. I am not emotional about her, I am emotional about the idea that the world is driven by some sort of moral high ground rather than rational arguments.


P.S. I did not call her an asshole, but the person who had the idea of making her a poster child.

P.S. 2 When I say I don't know enough, I mean that I am (technically) convinced that phenomenon exits, however I realize that it is hard to estimate its scale, and, much more importantly, it is extremely difficult to define what are the best policies in face of it, since it encompasses changes to the energetic matrix of the world, something that has profound geo-political and social consequences. And boy, I don't want screaming teenagers to have a say about that.