What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[britbox]

Thanks, folks. And sorry for the rant, for the words and for venting out the frustration here. I do not want to spoil the spirit we have on this board of free thinking and free speech.

Just to report some incidents that happen to my immediate contacts or close enough to them that I am sure it is true (I have contacts in both sides):

1) One little girl was shot and kill by accident. Gun owners were shooting up and around to celebrate and something went wrong. It happened in a city called Ponta Grossa, in Paraná state. I have two friends living there;

2) One political militant was shot and kill in Bagé, state of Rio Grande do Sul. Father of my goddaughter lived there for 10 years, he knew the guy personally;

3) Teachers in the Santa Catarina state received (along with thousands of students) a whataspp message warning that any ideological content or phrase or word on classrooms should be denounced to a "council" that would "take measures". The person signing this message is an elected congresswoman. I saw the message myself.

I know that we see reports like these on the internet like flies around shit. But, again, what can I do? It is exactly what I am seeing on the ground. The list is longer...

Sounds like Nazi Germany. Just be careful chief, you don't want to be saying the wrong things to the wrong people.

 

[Horsa]

All the current events inspired me to write this. I don't know whether to keep it as a poem or make it into a folk, reggae or soft rock song.

Isn't it about time that the world could live in peace?
Isn't it about time all these wars could cease?
Isn't it about time we got rid of all this hate?
Isn't about time that the world could really lower their crime rate?

How things are going I dread to think of the fate of the world.
How things are going I dread to see the future of the world unfurled.
I'd like to see a world where everyone is equal regardless of age, gender or race.
I'd like to see a world where bullying, harassment, violence & crime are things no one has to face.

I'd like to see a world where they can find for every pestilential disease a cure.
I'd like to see a world where everyone, the air & the waters are pure.
I'd like to see a world where there is no war.
I'd like to see a world where there is no gore.

I would like to see a world without arguments or fights.
I would like to see a world where people have & don't have to assert their rights.
I know all these ideas are just an imaginative dream.
If they came true everyone's faces would beam.

 

[Moxie]

Sounds like Nazi Germany. Just be careful chief, you don't want to be saying the wrong things to the wrong people.

When it comes to that, the whole country is in trouble.

 

[mrzz]

Sounds like Nazi Germany. Just be careful chief, you don't want to be saying the wrong things to the wrong people.

Thanks, BB. Trying to be smart, but at the same time you need to make a stand. It is a delicate balance. I am, for a few different reasons, in a fairly safe position, so everything will be ok, I guess. Lot of mobilization, we are organizing networks of self-protection.

The parallels with 1932 Germany are in fact numerous.

What I -- and other people trying to be rational -- am constantly doing is to ask myself: is this really that bad? Am I over reacting? Of course we don't have the SS on the streets just yet, and the episodes of militia violence are numerous, but not massive. Some episodes of institutional violence happening -- and those people haven't even got to power yet, just some of their coreligionist already trying to make something happen. The fucking bastard had a lighter tone on his victory speech -- even if his lighter tone is something like Le Penn or Salvini on a bad day.

There is a chance things do not get really, really bad, if these people don't feel they have that much support and if we as a society are able to contain the excesses. Again, people and institutions are organizing for this struggle. In this sense, it is a civil war in the making. In other words, the political die is rolling, let's see what face will end up on top. A Nazi-fascist regime is a possibility as good as any other, with communists standing in for the Jews and gay people for the gypsy. If it goes that low I cannot say I am surprised. I read a lot of bills he proposed (and failed ) when he was a congressman (straight from the congress site). It is surreal.

 

[Moxie]

Thanks, BB. Trying to be smart, but at the same time you need to make a stand. It is a delicate balance. I am, for a few different reasons, in a fairly safe position, so everything will be ok, I guess. Lot of mobilization, we are organizing networks of self-protection.

The parallels with 1932 Germany are in fact numerous.

What I -- and other people trying to be rational -- am constantly doing is to ask myself: is this really that bad? Am I over reacting? Of course we don't have the SS on the streets just yet, and the episodes of militia violence are numerous, but not massive. Some episodes of institutional violence happening -- and those people haven't even got to power yet, just some of their coreligionist already trying to make something happen. The fucking bastard had a lighter tone on his victory speech -- even if his lighter tone is something like Le Penn or Salvini on a bad day.

There is a chance things do not get really, really bad, if these people don't feel they have that much support and if we as a society are able to contain the excesses. Again, people and institutions are organizing for this struggle. In this sense, it is a civil war in the making. In other words, the political die is rolling, let's see what face will end up on top. A Nazi-fascist regime is a possibility as good as any other, with communists standing in for the Jews and gay people for the gypsy. If it goes that low I cannot say I am surprised. I read a lot of bills he proposed (and failed ) when he was a congressman (straight from the congress site). It is surreal.

I have to say, it's very much what we're dealing with here in the US. The question becomes how much to you allow "normalizing" of his poor behavior and his dog-whistling to the neo-fascists. We've gone far down the slippery-slope here, and you see what we get: a lot of violence and targeting of minorities for it. With not a peep of consolation from the White House. We're holding out a lot of hope for the mid-term elections to put some sort of governor on Trump's blatant nationalism and pro-extremist tendencies, but even that won't make it easy to walk back a lot of the damage done. I wish you good luck managing your own neo-Fascist.

 

[mrzz]

I have to say, it's very much what we're dealing with here in the US. The question becomes how much to you allow "normalizing" of his poor behavior and his dog-whistling to the neo-fascists. We've gone far down the slippery-slope here, and you see what we get: a lot of violence and targeting of minorities for it. With not a peep of consolation from the White House. We're holding out a lot of hope for the mid-term elections to put some sort of governor on Trump's blatant nationalism and pro-extremist tendencies, but even that won't make it easy to walk back a lot of the damage done. I wish you good luck managing your own neo-Fascist.

Mox, I obviously cannot judge what you guys see on the ground there. But what I have been trying to say is that the rhetoric and the first actions from these people here went up a few notches in comparison to other right-wing governments. If in the following days I have the energy, the time, and (specially) the stomach, I will try to give a better picture. I confess my previous posts were written in a hurry, most late at night, tired and trying hard not to sound over alarmist. But there you can have a decent first picture, I guess.

But the last thing I want is to play "who's got the worst" president. I really hope my reading is wrong. Something here that make things worst is that our institutions are nowhere near the American ones.

I sensed a tone of irritation in your post. Something like "I told you". Well, I have that same feeling, because I am sure that a lot of things I've been complaining about for years are the roots of the rise to power of this fucking bastard. But you know what? It doesn't help. We better brace ourselves than anything else.

 

[Moxie]

Mox, I obviously cannot judge what you guys see on the ground there. But what I have been trying to say is that the rhetoric and the first actions from these people here went up a few notches in comparison to other right-wing governments. If in the following days I have the energy, the time, and (specially) the stomach, I will try to give a better picture. I confess my previous posts were written in a hurry, most late at night, tired and trying hard not to sound over alarmist. But there you can have a decent first picture, I guess.

But the last thing I want is to play "who's got the worst" president. I really hope my reading is wrong. Something here that make things worst is that our institutions are nowhere near the American ones.

I sensed a tone of irritation in your post. Something like "I told you". Well, I have that same feeling, because I am sure that a lot of things I've been complaining about for years are the roots of the rise to power of this fucking bastard. But you know what? It doesn't help. We better brace ourselves than anything else.

There was no intention of "I told you so" in my post. Forgive me if it came off that way. I have nothing but sympathy for you. I don't even know what I would have "told you" previously. My irritation/anger/frustration is with Trump. I am frustrated with how some here "normalize" all of the appalling things he does and says and that come out of his past and decide that it's now ok for a president to behave/speak that way.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Thanks, folks. And sorry for the rant, for the words and for venting out the frustration here. I do not want to spoil the spirit we have on this board of free thinking and free speech.

Just to report some incidents that happen to my immediate contacts or close enough to them that I am sure it is true (I have contacts in both sides):

1) One little girl was shot and kill by accident. Gun owners were shooting up and around to celebrate and something went wrong. It happened in a city called Ponta Grossa, in Paraná state. I have two friends living there;

I would call this incident unrelated to the fact that ultra-R patry won elections but to be simply a result of relaxed firearm laws. It's well known that e.g. open carry laws endanger the lives of innocent bystanders. E.g. in US, the majority of states (31) do permit the unrestricted and unlicensed open carry:
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/guns-in-public/open-carry/
which is pathologically ridiculous nonsense, to say the least (I'd refrain from bad language).
So, assuming the federal law in Brazil, like in US, mostly leaves gun regulations to the states, does the state of Paraná embrace a similar, pathological gun laws as US states? If so, we should blame its lawmakers for the innocent girl death. How else can we see it?

 

[mrzz]

@Chris Koziarz , my post was too short and not clear regarding that incident.

Gun laws in Brazil are more restricted than in the US. Also, states have no independence on this. Federal law rules all over the country and now you can have a weapon at home, as long you comply with a lot of norms and passes a lot of tests. The process takes about a year, a few months with good effort and a good knowledge of bureaucracy. To have a permit to actually carry it on the streets, it is even harder (this part I don't know perfectly). But there is a breach in the law and if you have a license for your gun you will hardly (legally) lose it for carrying it on the street.

So, the legislation here is -- IMO -- far better than in the US. However, I admit that we can honestly debate gun ownership. I rather live in a gun free society, but there is an argument there.

Things here are in whole other level, however. Crime rates are (historically) way higher than anything US has experienced. Supporters of the great retarded use this as a pretext to change gun laws, ignoring the fact that in most states crime rates are actually going down in the last 20 years. Here in São Paulo state the number of murders per 100.000 inhabitants have dropped almost by a factor 10 in 20 years, specially after one change in legislation which made even harder to have weapons. It is open data, everyone knows that, everyone feels safer, but this doesn't stop the crazy rhetoric. On Rio de Janeiro state (ironically where the great retard comes from) however, violence is a perennial problem and oscillates around 40 violent deaths for 100.000 inhabitants per year in the last 20 years.

The great retard has basically no government plan. In all areas all he has is some vague, far reaching phrases like "we will rebuild our country" and empty stuff like that. The only thing were he gave more details is the security policy, where he wants that every "good" citizen have a weapon to guarantee his own safety (like everyone would be a trained cop), that the law is changed so basically any trespasser can be shot and kill with no question asked. The idea is to put a gun in everyone's hands, in densely populated areas with little education levels.

All this to go back to that incident I described. It happened during the celebrations of his victory. A group of supporters of new gun laws took to the streets with their guns, and were firing them to celebrate. The incident happened during those celebrations. It is indeed not correlation: it is a direct cause and consequence relation.

Afterwards it got to the national news, and as always there is a battle on the narrative now. I know that one death is a drop in the ocean, but the irony on this case is beyond absurd.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

@Chris Koziarz , my post was too short and not clear regarding that incident.

Gun laws in Brazil are more restricted than in the US. Also, states have no independence on this. Federal law rules all over the country and now you can have a weapon at home, as long you comply with a lot of norms and passes a lot of tests. The process takes about a year, a few months with good effort and a good knowledge of bureaucracy. To have a permit to actually carry it on the streets, it is even harder (this part I don't know perfectly). But there is a breach in the law and if you have a license for your gun you will hardly (legally) lose it for carrying it on the street.

So, the legislation here is -- IMO -- far better than in the US. However, I admit that we can honestly debate gun ownership. I rather live in a gun free society, but there is an argument there.

Things here are in whole other level, however. Crime rates are (historically) way higher than anything US has experienced. Supporters of the great retarded use this as a pretext to change gun laws, ignoring the fact that in most states crime rates are actually going down in the last 20 years. Here in São Paulo state the number of murders per 100.000 inhabitants have dropped almost by a factor 10 in 20 years, specially after one change in legislation which made even harder to have weapons. It is open data, everyone knows that, everyone feels safer, but this doesn't stop the crazy rhetoric. On Rio de Janeiro state (ironically where the great retard comes from) however, violence is a perennial problem and oscillates around 40 violent deaths for 100.000 inhabitants per year in the last 20 years.

The great retard has basically no government plan. In all areas all he has is some vague, far reaching phrases like "we will rebuild our country" and empty stuff like that. The only thing were he gave more details is the security policy, where he wants that every "good" citizen have a weapon to guarantee his own safety (like everyone would be a trained cop), that the law is changed so basically any trespasser can be shot and kill with no question asked. The idea is to put a gun in everyone's hands, in densely populated areas with little education levels.

All this to go back to that incident I described. It happened during the celebrations of his victory. A group of supporters of new gun laws took to the streets with their guns, and were firing them to celebrate. The incident happened during those celebrations. It is indeed not correlation: it is a direct cause and consequence relation.

Afterwards it got to the national news, and as always there is a battle on the narrative now. I know that one death is a drop in the ocean, but the irony on this case is beyond absurd.

Thanks for your elaboration. The cause of the incident in question is unmistakeable, although it falls out of the statistics of intentional homicides (sometimes called simply "murders") we are talking about.
I'm a true believer of good stats (I suppose you also are) because good stats (non-biased & when comparing apples to apples) usually tell the true story.
I don't know the specifics of Brazilian society, and in particular why the murder stats are on average 6 times higher than in US, despite better arm restriction laws. But likely it's because Brazil is much poorer per capita, so this and related factors, not gun laws, determine the high murder rates.
But, if we compare US with countries of similar GDP per capita (EU, AU) we find out that those other countries have 5-10 time lower than US murder rates. Further, the gun-related death rates in these countries (especially homicides, not suicides) also display unmistakeable trends.
So, based on such stats, and based on the data from Sao Paolo where you mentioned gun restrictions became tougher recently (thanks for that) we can expect that said murder rate will go up in Brazil in next few years if the "great retard" implements what he promises. It does not matter that the rates are already high by civilised standards. There is virtually no limit to un-civilized or inhumane behaviour, as history has shown (e.g. Nazi Germany).

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I wanted to compare the moral standards for politicians in countries I'm most familiar with: US & AUS.
A recent event in AUS where a major party leader was ousted due to a groping allegation sparked my thoughts how different said moral standards are, despite said countries' strong cultural and language similarities.
Note that, the demise of the alleged groper (Luke Foley) was almost instantaneous: less than 24h since a public statement by the alleged victim. Without any formal trail, i.e. without any proof. But the public & peer pressure was so great, that Foley simply had to resign.
Now compare it to t-man, with his endless history of abuses: he probably groped poor women that happened to be near him countless times, and has done worse abuses few times. Some of these abuses went to trials (and were dismissed!), some did not because victims are not emotionally strong enough to handle such public exposure. I don't even mention the "pussygate". But wait a moment, the absurd immunity of t-man does not stop here: he said explicitly during one of his rallies that he could even take a riffle ans shoot a person that he does not like and that would still not prevent him winning the presidency. And REP party is standing strong behind such clown.
How come, such utterly pathetic erosion of morality is happening in US and not in Aus? Ans still REP party exists and has some support in general population (they've just held senate majority), hoe come? I used to feel pride for holding US passport, but now I simply feel ashamed. Why has my country of allegiance fallen so low politically, compared to my country of residence (Aus)?

 

[britbox]

Well Chris, the presumption of innocence before being proven guilty is still a staple of western civilization... or supposed to be.

If Foley wasn't guilty, then he should have ridden out the storm...

 

[Moxie]

I wanted to compare the moral standards for politicians in countries I'm most familiar with: US & AUS.
A recent event in AUS where a major party leader was ousted due to a groping allegation sparked my thoughts how different said moral standards are, despite said countries' strong cultural and language similarities.
Note that, the demise of the alleged groper (Luke Foley) was almost instantaneous: less than 24h since a public statement by the alleged victim. Without any formal trail, i.e. without any proof. But the public & peer pressure was so great, that Foley simply had to resign.
Now compare it to t-man, with his endless history of abuses: he probably groped poor women that happened to be near him countless times, and has done worse abuses few times. Some of these abuses went to trials (and were dismissed!), some did not because victims are not emotionally strong enough to handle such public exposure. I don't even mention the "pussygate". But wait a moment, the absurd immunity of t-man does not stop here: he said explicitly during one of his rallies that he could even take a riffle ans shoot a person that he does not like and that would still not prevent him winning the presidency. And REP party is standing strong behind such clown.
How come, such utterly pathetic erosion of morality is happening in US and not in Aus? Ans still REP party exists and has some support in general population (they've just held senate majority), hoe come? I used to feel pride for holding US passport, but now I simply feel ashamed. Why has my country of allegiance fallen so low politically, compared to my country of residence (Aus)?

I appreciate this heartfelt question, though I don't think it's a one-to-one. Certainly some men have fallen quickly and far, here, in the face of allegations of inappropriate behavior. I would say that you're rather right about Trump, though...that he seems immune to inappropriate behavior allegations, tawdry affairs, pay-offs to women to silence them, etc. All I can say about that is that it seems his supporters buy him wholesale....they want the Supreme Court to go conservative. This seems to be how we got Kavanaugh, too. For people who feel that abortion and gay marriage are extremely important moral issues, they'll live with the moral and ethical failings of those who will get them there. THAT I can't really explain to you, because I don't understand it, either.

 

[mrzz]

So, based on such stats, and based on the data from Sao Paolo where you mentioned gun restrictions became tougher recently (thanks for that) we can expect that said murder rate will go up in Brazil in next few years if the "great retard" implements what he promises

First, sorry for the giant time lapse on the reply. I was (and am) so pissed off with developments here that I realized I was not even being able to write decent posts about it.

I did not made myself clear enough. The gun restriction laws were valid for the whole country. And, as a whole, the stats got better, although it is a stretch to say one is cause of the other, as violence is a very complicated thing in an under-developed country like Brazil -- the economy may be a big one, but the social problems are still there.

So, every state has his own security polices, which need to agree with the broader national direction. São Paulo had a tougher instance on organized crime, and at the same time increased survelaince in large cities. Anyway, it is complex. Also, we cannot never forget that data around here is extremely unrealiable. There is a somewhat famous brazilian movie ("Tropa de Elite", don't know the name in English, but I would guess they have translated and distributed worldwide), which has a now classic scene. Police finds a dead body in a given neighborhood, just moves the body to next one, as this murder will then fall in somebody else's stats. Other policemen find the same body, push it back to the original neighborhood, so on and so forth, the body just comes and goes all night. Right after that, you see a police chief reprehending one of his men, that put in the report that he found a murdered person on a beach (with bullet wholes in his body). "A body on a beach is drowning. You are not a medical examiner".

So, it is true that São Paulo got his numbers much better in the last years -- and as I live here I can say this corresponds to reality. We cannot say with certainty if the gun restriction laws contributed to it, and if they did, it is almost impossible to quantify it. But, on the other hand, we can say with certainty is that we do not need a stupid policy like the proposed one to reduce violence.

Oh, and you are going to love this: our recently appointed future Chancellor -- already an international laughing stock -- deemed "climate change" as a "conspiracy from the left". According to him, on the same interview, those Marxist conspiracies started in the French revolution.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

First, sorry for the giant time lapse on the reply. I was (and am) so pissed off with developments here that I realized I was not even being able to write decent posts about it.

I did not made myself clear enough. The gun restriction laws were valid for the whole country. And, as a whole, the stats got better, although it is a stretch to say one is cause of the other, as violence is a very complicated thing in an under-developed country like Brazil -- the economy may be a big one, but the social problems are still there.

So, every state has his own security polices, which need to agree with the broader national direction. São Paulo had a tougher instance on organized crime, and at the same time increased survelaince in large cities. Anyway, it is complex. Also, we cannot never forget that data around here is extremely unrealiable. There is a somewhat famous brazilian movie ("Tropa de Elite", don't know the name in English, but I would guess they have translated and distributed worldwide), which has a now classic scene. Police finds a dead body in a given neighborhood, just moves the body to next one, as this murder will then fall in somebody else's stats. Other policemen find the same body, push it back to the original neighborhood, so on and so forth, the body just comes and goes all night. Right after that, you see a police chief reprehending one of his men, that put in the report that he found a murdered person on a beach (with bullet wholes in his body). "A body on a beach is drowning. You are not a medical examiner".

So, it is true that São Paulo got his numbers much better in the last years -- and as I live here I can say this corresponds to reality. We cannot say with certainty if the gun restriction laws contributed to it, and if they did, it is almost impossible to quantify it. But, on the other hand, we can say with certainty is that we do not need a stupid policy like the proposed one to reduce violence.

Oh, and you are going to love this: our recently appointed future Chancellor -- already an international laughing stock -- deemed "climate change" as a "conspiracy from the left". According to him, on the same interview, those Marxist conspiracies started in the French revolution.

No worries about the delay, ASA the subject (R extremists taking over Brazil) is still current (it is).
Re my emphasis, we know correlation does not imply causation. You would need to look in detail how new gun control laws have been applied in Sao vs other states (e.g. Rio)
Talking about your new Chancellor (in my country such office is called "Foreign Affair Minister, not to be confused with a chancellor at the uni), I assume you refer to this:
http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/en/...-ernesto-araujo-chosen-brazils-new-chancellor
Right? Then the description of said chancellor by Bolsonaro as “a brilliant intellectual” is a pathetic contradiction of your assertion about his conspiracy theory. Conheça a Empresa Brasil de Comunicação (the news agency quoting Bolsonaro's praise and nothing else) appears to be biased. But it's enough to read about him from wikipedia: him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Araújo. Apparently he wrote a book where he explain that globalism "is the economic globalization [sic] that has been driven by cultural Marxism" and that is "essentially anti-human and anti-Christian"
Oh, my!!!! We're dealing with a religious nutter obsessed with Marxist conspiracies! I cannot believe such conspiracies still exist in 21st century when Marxism has been long gone. Such conspiracy theorists by definition must treat climate science as as a "conspiracy from the left". In fact I would be surprised if he had a different (i.e. decent) understanding of any environmental science, CS included.

 

[Horsa]

Why is the news nearly always so bad?
Why is the news nearly always so sad?
Why can't we have world peace?
Why will all wars forever not cease?
Why have all our favourite entertainers recently been dying?
Why does the news always have you crying?

 

[britbox]

40 shot dead in New Zealand at the latest count. Several mosques attacked.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2019/03/15/gunman-christchurch-mosque/

 

[Horsa]

40 shot dead in New Zealand at the latest count. Several mosques attacked.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2019/03/15/gunman-christchurch-mosque/

That's disgusting & disgraceful.

 

[Horsa]

I'm trying to notice the good things in this world as well as the bad.
I'm trying to find the good news instead of just the sad.
What's going on in this world today isn't only sad, it's mad.

Why is there so much violence & crime?
Why does it seem as if something bad happens most of the time?

Why is this world so full of hate?
Why can't we just avoid people or issues we don't rate?
Why do some people animosity have to create?

Why can't we all get on well together?
Why can't we have world peace forever?

Why can't people accept other people's rights to believe what they want as long as they leave other people alone?
Why do some people do things that you just can't condone?
Why do some people just have to moan & groan?

Why are some people just so bitter, twisted & sick?
Why can't some people in the head, bad ideas kick?

​

 

[Federberg]

40 shot dead in New Zealand at the latest count. Several mosques attacked.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2019/03/15/gunman-christchurch-mosque/

49 at last count. I think they posted live on facebook and some other social media These companies claim to use AI. It's about time they develop something to alert authorities quickly. And these are Aussies going over to NZ to do this. What's the word in Oz BB?