Kieran said:
tented said:
Kieran said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the American voter stuck between a rock a hard place, if the choice is Trump v Clinton. A possible upside of a Trump victory is that it'll shake up the establishment, while bureaucrats and the system will also shake up Trump, leading to a toning down of his rhetorical excesses. There's no upside of a Clinton election: she is the establishment and no matter how often she fails, she just gets regurgitated back out at us...
This would never happen. Toning down is anathema to Trump. His getting elected would be the equivalent of shutting down the government. The concept of negotiation -- a fundamental aspect of governing, regardless of appearances to the contrary -- would disappear entirely.
Then that might lead to another scenario I've been wondering about: could a Trump presidency lead the US republic into a constitutional crisis, where the commander-in-chief is deemed unfit to lead? Seriously.
It's an interesting question. Section 4 of the 25th amendment to the US Constitution states:
"Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office."
However:
"Section 4 is the only part of the amendment that has never been invoked. It allows the Vice President, together with a majority of either "the principal officers of the executive departments" (i.e., the Cabinet) or of "such other body as Congress may by law provide", to declare the President disabled by submitting a written declaration to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. As with Section 3, the Vice President would become Acting President.
Section 4 is meant to be invoked if the President's incapacitation prevents him from discharging the duties of his office and he does not provide a written declaration to that effect. The President may resume exercising the Presidential duties by sending a written declaration to the President pro tempore and the Speaker of the House.
Should the Vice President and Cabinet believe the President is still disabled, they may within four days of the President's declaration submit another declaration that the President is incapacitated. The Congress must then assemble within 48 hours if not in session. The Congress then has 21 days to decide the issue. If within the 21 days allotted two-thirds of each House of Congress vote that the President is incapacitated, Section 4 states that the Vice President would "continue" to be Acting President. Should the Congress resolve the issue in favor of the President, or if the Congress makes no decision within the 21 days allotted, then the President would "resume" discharging all of the powers and duties of his office. The use of the words "continue" and "resume" imply that the Vice President remains Acting President while Congress deliberates.
However, the President may again submit a written declaration of recovery to the President pro tempore and the Speaker of the House. That declaration could be responded to by the Acting President and the Cabinet in the same way as stated earlier. The allotted 21-day Congressional procedure would start again."
In short, it would be a disaster. Or it would be precisely what would be needed to get Trump to go completely insane, thus permanently removed.
Of course, then the question would become: Who would be President? There are plenty of examples, even in the recent past, of VPs being worse than the President, in one way (Dan Quayle) or another (Cheney).
lease: