Wawrinka exposing Federer's flawed strategy and Nadal's weakness....

[huntingyou]

What happened when Nadal had 0-40 at 3-5 game? Didn't he missed three consecutive second serves returns?

That tells you all you need to know about this supposed new strategy.....

anyways, Roger is not Stan and he doesn't want to be Stan. People can't just chill and instead try to extrapolate what can't be extrapolate.

 

[House]

So Fed just needs to wait until Nadal hurts his back?

I don't know if that is a reliable tactic to be honest.

Wawrinka completely owned Nadal in the first set when he was fine.

Federer lost his first set to Nadal. Big difference.

Some reports state that Nadal felt back pain in the warm up.

Not to mention Stan has an even more atrocious record against Nadal, then even Federer. This type of match, including the 1st set, won't be the norm for their future matchups.

I don't care what the reports said about Nadal's back in warm-ups, it is ridiculous to blame that first set on injury. If you have watched Nadal hundreds of times (as we all have) then you can see that Nadal was moving just fine by his usual standards.

Here we go again with the Fed-mono and Nadal-abdomen (USO 2009) nonsense.

I as a Nalbandian fan have much more reason to blame the 2008 Bercy loss to Tsonga on an injury, but I don't ascribe that loss to Nalbandian's hip, even though he almost retired on Saturday after the semi.

I didn't really ask if you believed the reports did I? One set isn't a death sentence for Nadal.

Despite both having a one handed backhand, Stan and Fed don't play the same games. Nadal is Roger's natural predator.

 

[calitennis127]

What happened when Nadal had 0-40 at 3-5 game? Didn't he missed three consecutive second serves returns?

That tells you all you need to know about this supposed new strategy.....

anyways, Roger is not Stan and he doesn't want to be Stan. People can't just chill and instead try to extrapolate what can't be extrapolate.

Nadal choked away those shots - just like Federer choked away the 5th set of the 2009 final and Dimitrov missed the forehand at the end of the 3rd set of the quarters.

But why don't you focus on the FH winners of Wawrinka that were up the line and inside-out? You talk like they never happened.

 

[Haelfix]

Look there are many blueprints on how to beat Nadal. This was probably not one of them. Wawrinka had previously lost some absurd number of sets to Nadal before even getting the first set today, so yea i'm not liking this matchup speaking in generalities.

A much better matchup would be someone like Novak when he is serving well, Davydenko on hards, a younger Nalbandian, James Blake circa 2006, Del Potro on certain hardcourts, and even Roger Federer when they play with deader balls on indoor courts. I'd imagine a prime Marat Safin would also be problematic on certain occassions.

The bottomline is that Nadal is a bad matchup for almost the entire tour, simply b/c so few people ever deal or practise against that type of weird spin, and it definitely creates mental issues for almost everyone. Players or courts that neutralize that spin, give a matchup much closer to 50-50. In many ways this is very much like the old Sampras conundrum. Once a player could keep that serve honest (which was almost impossible to do), they could achieve a much closer outcome.

 

[huntingyou]

What happened when Nadal had 0-40 at 3-5 game? Didn't he missed three consecutive second serves returns?

That tells you all you need to know about this supposed new strategy.....

anyways, Roger is not Stan and he doesn't want to be Stan. People can't just chill and instead try to extrapolate what can't be extrapolate.

Nadal choked away those shots - just like Federer choked away the 5th set of the 2009 final and Dimitrov missed the forehand at the end of the 3rd set of the quarters.

But why don't you focus on the FH winners of Wawrinka that were up the line and inside-out? You talk like they never happened.

I don't care about winners, I care about the SCORE. Verdasco hit 98 winners past Rafa.

Stan has always hit winners past Rafa, he has incredible power.......he was spot on on his strategy in the first set and Rafa's inability in that set allowed to continue but let's not kid ourselves. Stan won that set while serving 39% first serves...typically that's suicide against Rafa and most top 10 players to be honest.

Stan was really good in that set and that's it. It's just a set of tennis and players aren't machines. Levels goes up and down from match to match and tournament to tournament

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

roger, sitting on his bottom watching his chum win a major over rafa has seen that stepping in the court and hitting flat topspin backhands cc, dtl AND right at rafa's feet was a winning formula in set 1 before rafa's injury damaged the match..

so seeing that and with his new coach Stefan will mean a change of approach, roger said in his presser he didn't want to take risks when he was serving, well roger old bean..you are going to have to take big risks vs rafa or you will defo lose every time.

 

[Federberg]

Did Stan use some tactics that Roger could consider? Sure. But the biggest weakness in Feds game is his backhand. Something that is a strength for Stan. Not an apples to apples comparison.

Sorry, I was not even addressing the topic when I posted. Stan's backhand is a whole other animal than Fed's. I agree with you.

I'll probably be laughed at here... but I don't necessarily think that Stan's backhand is better than Rogers. This is more a redefinition than disagreement... I think that Stan has overwhelmingly greater belief in his backhand than Roger, that's the key difference. Roger is able to do more with the slice, backhand smash etc than Stan. But unlike Stan it's not his strength. The one thing Stan definitely has over Roger is a consistent backhand down the line shot he believes in. It's probably a crazy thing to say I know, but I do believe this to be the case. Separately I've always been fascinated watching backhand to backhand rallies between Roger and Stan... Roger more often than not comes out on top. Perhaps that's just a belief thing which Stan can get over in the future, but my main point is what I was trying to get across...:blush:

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

^ I am not laughing, and I agree, slice- wise, volley- wise, as far as creating amazing angles, Roger has the better backhand. What Stan has is raw , easy power, and better upper body strength, which will make all the difference against a guy like Nadal.

 

[nehmeth]

^ point is that all those nuances that Roger has, does little to help him against Rafa. With Stan, part of it is belief, as well as the power he hits with and the backhand down the line - which (to me) is a key component that works against Rafa - witness Novak and Stan.

Unfortunately I think Novak's backhand down the line has lost both belief and depth of shot while he's been working on improving his forehand.

 

[Front242]

For all that he's working with Becker now his volleys aren't much better than Fed's, finding the middle of the net way too often

 

[nehmeth]

For all that he's working with Becker now his volleys aren't much better than Fed's, finding the middle of the net way too often

uzzled :cover

Kicking a fan when he's already down... :nono

 

[Front242]

For all that he's working with Becker now his volleys aren't much better than Fed's, finding the middle of the net way too often

uzzled :cover

Kicking a fan when he's already down... :nono

My bad, sorry :blush::s Lots of things I want to be ironed out in Fed's game too is all. His volleys have been hitting the middle of the net for way too long now. Maybe he should get laser eye surgery.

 

[Fiero425]

For all that he's working with Becker now his volleys aren't much better than Fed's, finding the middle of the net way too often

uzzled :cover

Kicking a fan when he's already down... :nono

My bad, sorry :blush::s Lots of things I want to be ironed out in Fed's game too is all. His volleys have been hitting the middle of the net for way too long now. Maybe he should get laser eye surgery.

..or glasses like Martina did in '85! :laydownlaughing :lolz: :angel:

 

[Federberg]

For all that he's working with Becker now his volleys aren't much better than Fed's, finding the middle of the net way too often

uzzled :cover

Kicking a fan when he's already down... :nono

My bad, sorry :blush::s Lots of things I want to be ironed out in Fed's game too is all. His volleys have been hitting the middle of the net for way too long now. Maybe he should get laser eye surgery.

Given how well his volleys worked against Jo-Willie and Murray, I think it's fair to say he has execution problems against Rafa specifically. Not sure there's any technical work that can be done on that. Hypnotist maybe? uzzled

 

[Front242]

Yeah, many players out should try hypnosis at this stage. Seriously. Worth a lash anyway!

 

[Federberg]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/allenstjohn/2014/01/26/did-rafael-nadals-australian-open-loss-cost-him-a-chance-to-top-roger-federer-as-the-greatest-of-all-time/?

 

[Front242]

"The battle for supremacy in men’s tennis has never been more fascinating. Over the past three years, four players–Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray and Federer– have staked a claim to being the game’s best player". They didn't think that out too carefully did they. Only 2 of those could possibly claim that.

 

[Fiero425]

"The battle for supremacy in men’s tennis has never been more fascinating. Over the past three years, four players–Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray and Federer– have staked a claim to being the game’s best player". They didn't think that out too carefully did they. Only 2 of those could possibly claim that.

The big 4 was very much exaggerated until recently! They were more dominant in Masters tourneys overall! You've had them winning with players like Berdych, Ferrer, & Soderling as opponents though at the SLAMs! :angel: Now beside DelPo, we can add Wawrinka to the short list; thank GAWD! It was getting so old and boring with the same players in final after final! Todays players are so much better than in the past, but mentally something's holding them back; hense the resurgence of more mature accomplished players like Haas! Unfortunately it won't last due to the speed of the game! Haas and Federer will be out sooner than later, no matter how many times they change their equipment! :nono

 

[Front242]

The main equipment poor Haas has changed over the years has been his shoulder and hips. At least with Fed it was just his racquet.

 

[TsarMatt]

Well, let's not try and distort any of the facts here, as good as Wawrinka played. Previous to this meeting, Nadal was something like 13-0 against Stan, and the latter had not even taken a set in all of those matches. He definitely did well, tactically, in the first set and a bit, but that is only a small portion of an overall very, very one-sided matchup. Then again, this is Stan 2.0...