Wawrinka exposing Federer's flawed strategy and Nadal's weakness....

[calitennis127]

After just watching the first set and the start of the second, I can see that Wawrinka made use of the forehand up the line as well as the inside-out forehand.

Attacking Nadal's forehand with the righty forehand is entirely the way to go. I'm glad to see that Wawrinka figured that out.

As some of you may recall, I have been calling for Federer to do this for a long time.

 

[Front242]

Yeah but there's also the issue that Stan has a way more potent BH that Federer will ever possess and Rafa can't pin him in the left of the court on his BH during rallies. Honestly, you don't think Roger himself or his coaches would've figured it out by now if it were that easy?! Next...

 

[House]

So Fed just needs to wait until Nadal hurts his back?

I don't know if that is a reliable tactic to be honest.

 

[calitennis127]

Yeah but there's also the issue that Stan has a way more potent BH that Federer will ever possess and Rafa can't pin him in the left of the court on his BH during rallies. Honestly, you don't think Roger himself or his coaches would've figured it out by now if it were that easy?! Next...

No, I really don't think they have figured that out. They think it is too "low percentage" - kind of like Fed's winning percentage against Nadal.

 

[calitennis127]

So Fed just needs to wait until Nadal hurts his back?

I don't know if that is a reliable tactic to be honest.

Wawrinka completely owned Nadal in the first set when he was fine.

Federer lost his first set to Nadal. Big difference.

 

[shawnbm]

Two different players and although Stan has been improving and improving these last twelve months at unexpected rates, he had never taken a set off of Nadal while federer had beaten the spa airs more times than anyone other than Novak. Stan is at a new peak and playing at a high level with great confidence. All kudos to him and he's earned the respect and accolades he rightly is receiving. Way to go Stan!

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

You can hurt Nadal with power.Finesse players need not even step on the court. Wawrinka has easy power , so even on a normal rally, he can come up with a shot that totally takes time away from Rafa, like the first set. Stan's upper body strength has to be one of the best in tennis. Those things matter when you play Nadal.

 

[calitennis127]

Two different players and although Stan has been improving and improving these last twelve months at unexpected rates, he had never taken a set off of Nadal while federer had beaten the spa airs more times than anyone other than Novak. Stan is at a new peak and playing at a high level with great confidence. All kudos to him and he's earned the respect and accolades he rightly is receiving. Way to go Stan!

Federer is far more talented, btw. A significant difference.

 

[House]

So Fed just needs to wait until Nadal hurts his back?

I don't know if that is a reliable tactic to be honest.

Wawrinka completely owned Nadal in the first set when he was fine.

Federer lost his first set to Nadal. Big difference.

Some reports state that Nadal felt back pain in the warm up.

Not to mention Stan has an even more atrocious record against Nadal, then even Federer. This type of match, including the 1st set, won't be the norm for their future matchups.

 

[Front242]

So Fed just needs to wait until Nadal hurts his back?

I don't know if that is a reliable tactic to be honest.

Wawrinka completely owned Nadal in the first set when he was fine.

Federer lost his first set to Nadal. Big difference.

One is clearly playing the best tennis one of his career and has a much more effective one handed BH against Nadal that doesn't result in him being pinned in the left of the court. The other is in the twilight of his career and makes more mistakes than he used to and to quote what you said yourself, Federer looked gassed in set 2 from already trying his hardest in set 1. I agree. Big difference. One's improving, the other has been declining for quite some time.

 

[nehmeth]

Some reports state that Nadal felt back pain in the warm up.

Not to mention Stan has an even more atrocious record against Nadal, then even Federer. This type of match, including the 1st set, won't be the norm for their future matchups.

I think Uncle Toni had mentioned problems during warm-ups.

Up until today, Stan's record has truly been atrocious against Rafa. Concluding that this match won't be the norm for future match-ups is fair, but just consider:

- the monkey is off his back now.
- whether Rafa was healthy or hurting, Stan was still winning without his best service in the first set.
- Stan was nervous underneath and he hid it well until the wheels came off in the fourth

You're right House, he could dip back down again after this. It could be a springboard for him to more success He absolutely punishes a short ball with few errors when he's focused. He did it to Novak and to Rafa this week. I don't expect him to return to being an also ran.

 

[House]

Some reports state that Nadal felt back pain in the warm up.

Not to mention Stan has an even more atrocious record against Nadal, then even Federer. This type of match, including the 1st set, won't be the norm for their future matchups.

I think Uncle Toni had mentioned problems during warm-ups.

Up until today, Stan's record has truly been atrocious against Rafa. Concluding that this match won't be the norm for future match-ups is fair, but just consider:

- the monkey is off his back now.
- whether Rafa was healthy or hurting, Stan was still winning without his best service in the first set.
- Stan was nervous underneath and he hid it well until the wheels came off in the fourth

You're right House, he could dip back down again after this. It could be a springboard for him to more success He absolutely punishes a short ball with few errors when he's focused. He did it to Novak and to Rafa this week. I don't expect him to return to being an also ran.

All good points, and I certainly don't expect Stan to lay down for the rest of his career again. Only that he isn't likely straight setting Nadal for the rest of their careers. He didn't solve some complex code to always beat Rafa. Stan even dropped a set to a guy who could barely move. Though that can easily be attributed to nerves.

He had a great tournament. No question. Played the worlds best, and came out on top. However, people said the same things about Soderling when he beat Nadal. That he solved a code, and would bother Nadal for the rest of his career.

Did Stan use some tactics that Roger could consider? Sure. But the biggest weakness in Feds game is his backhand. Something that is a strength for Stan. Not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[nehmeth]

Did Stan use some tactics that Roger could consider? Sure. But the biggest weakness in Feds game is his backhand. Something that is a strength for Stan. Not an apples to apples comparison.

Sorry, I was not even addressing the topic when I posted. Stan's backhand is a whole other animal than Fed's. I agree with you.

 

[calitennis127]

So Fed just needs to wait until Nadal hurts his back?

I don't know if that is a reliable tactic to be honest.

Wawrinka completely owned Nadal in the first set when he was fine.

Federer lost his first set to Nadal. Big difference.

Some reports state that Nadal felt back pain in the warm up.

Not to mention Stan has an even more atrocious record against Nadal, then even Federer. This type of match, including the 1st set, won't be the norm for their future matchups.

I don't care what the reports said about Nadal's back in warm-ups, it is ridiculous to blame that first set on injury. If you have watched Nadal hundreds of times (as we all have) then you can see that Nadal was moving just fine by his usual standards.

Here we go again with the Fed-mono and Nadal-abdomen (USO 2009) nonsense.

I as a Nalbandian fan have much more reason to blame the 2008 Bercy loss to Tsonga on an injury, but I don't ascribe that loss to Nalbandian's hip, even though he almost retired on Saturday after the semi.

 

[huntingyou]

I thought Stan was attacking Rafa's backhand with his heavy forehand in the first set.......maybe I miss when he initiated the attack against forehand.

The big stat of the set if he served at 39% and Rafa couldn't break...it tells you more about Rafa's inability than Stan's abilities in that particular set.

 

[brokenshoelace]

After just watching the first set and the start of the second, I can see that Wawrinka made use of the forehand up the line as well as the inside-out forehand.

Attacking Nadal's forehand with the righty forehand is entirely the way to go. I'm glad to see that Wawrinka figured that out.

As some of you may recall, I have been calling for Federer to do this for a long time.

Stan is better at generating his own power, whereas Federer has to take it very early and clean. He's not comfortable with Nadal's spin so he ends up mishitting a lot of them.

 

[calitennis127]

I thought Stan was attacking Rafa's backhand with his heavy forehand in the first set.......maybe I miss when he initiated the attack against forehand.

The big stat of the set if he served at 39% and Rafa couldn't break...it tells you more about Rafa's inability than Stan's abilities in that particular set.

Nadal's backhand always turns into a weapon against Federer. It's not a coincidence.

Federer's CC forehand is utterly predictable against Nadal. Nadal has no worries coping with it.

 

[calitennis127]

After just watching the first set and the start of the second, I can see that Wawrinka made use of the forehand up the line as well as the inside-out forehand.

Attacking Nadal's forehand with the righty forehand is entirely the way to go. I'm glad to see that Wawrinka figured that out.

As some of you may recall, I have been calling for Federer to do this for a long time.

Stan is better at generating his own power, whereas Federer has to take it very early and clean. He's not comfortable with Nadal's spin so he ends up mishitting a lot of them.

Even if Federer is not mis-hitting, he still struggles. Look at set 1 of the semi.

 

[brokenshoelace]

So Fed just needs to wait until Nadal hurts his back?

I don't know if that is a reliable tactic to be honest.

Wawrinka completely owned Nadal in the first set when he was fine.

Federer lost his first set to Nadal. Big difference.

Some reports state that Nadal felt back pain in the warm up.

Not to mention Stan has an even more atrocious record against Nadal, then even Federer. This type of match, including the 1st set, won't be the norm for their future matchups.

I don't care what the reports said about Nadal's back in warm-ups, it is ridiculous to blame that first set on injury. If you have watched Nadal hundreds of times (as we all have) then you can see that Nadal was moving just fine by his usual standards.

Here we go again with the Fed-mono and Nadal-abdomen (USO 2009) nonsense.

I as a Nalbandian fan have much more reason to blame the 2008 Bercy loss to Tsonga on an injury, but I don't ascribe that loss to Nalbandian's hip, even though he almost retired on Saturday after the semi.

First set was what it was. No reason to blame any injury. It was still one set though. And you and I both know that a set and a break against Nadal hardly means the match was won.

But yeah, as far as strategy and execution goes, Stan was spot on. The blueprint to beating Nadal is out there anyway. It just requires a lot of good shot selection, patient but aggressive play, great execution, and depth on rally shots to set up eventual winners. Not as easy as it sounds.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Plus, you gotta take into account how much of an easier time Stan has at generating power off the backhand wing. That's a huge factor and something Federer can never do against Nadal, at least not with consistency.