US Politics Thread

the AntiPusher

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You just keep misreading me, and I can only believe it’s because you never virus scan your own political affiliation. The bolded part above shows that you can’t read another poster and understand them, if they in any sense criticise the democrats - something you’re totally incapable of doing yourself.

The democrats are so good they got Trump elected. Well done, you.

Try this again - CNN complimenting Romney because he was right.

Stay on topic.

Read my posts twice so you understand what I’m saying.

Don’t lie about what I said.

When you become capable of critiquing your own side, then this shows you have a healthily functioning political radar…
Keep living the dream from Ireland with your MAGA political allies here in the US. Good for them. To be colonized by Russia. Its what you wanted them to vote for. Remember the road to the US for Putin's colonization project goes through Europe. Be Happy.
 
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Kieran

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It’s kind of a relief that the OSCARS weren’t marred by posh Hollywood “activist” squealing. But at the same time, it was all a bit too low-key. It came and went. Usually we have some pampered princesses to laugh at, crying about things they think of only monochromatically. Like George Clooney or Sean Penn.

Hopefully we’re entering a new era where we’re not bombarded by spoilt people intruding on our lives with phoney politics…
 

Kieran

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You have no clue the mentality of an American citizen who is 3rd generation military veteran. Have ever held a political office in the US? Have you served as civil servant? Have you ever taught school at the university level? That's living life to its fullest. Sir you have no clue what you are talking about. When its all said and done, there's not gonna be a left or right but can you live with the life you chose to live and if you were able to be blessing to others. Otherwise you have been a spectator clinging to some hope that life is gonna reward you because of your political preference. There's nothing that Trump offers to you.
It’s impressive how you ignore everything that’s said - then lose your self control over it. Calm down. You are not replying to the person you think you’re replying to…
 

Kieran

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A pretty significant difference between Trump’s first term and his second is the intensity of his fascination with territorial expansion now……..




Fareed Zakaria, thank you very much.


Good to be here, Ezra.
I’m still wading though these posts because they’re massive but also they’re not as straightforward as the usual. It’s a great discussion, trying to understand what Trump really means when he says things, and why there’s a change in the world order politically. Russia and China are both evil regimes (far as I’m concerned) but both might also say that the Western “liberalism” is evil.

Although it will be dismissed by some as “just some Nazi saying stuff”, but when Viktor Orban says “We want to be an illiberal democracy because we don’t believe in the tenets of Western liberalism”, we could interpret this also as somebody pointing out that, in real life, Western liberalism is actually poisonously illiberal. I know, he’s saying something else - but when we see a so-called liberal like Trudeau freezing the bank accounts of people who disagree with him, and the cancellations, harassments, and violent protests against people who disagree with whatever fashionable cause is on display, the manipulations of social media to support only one side, we know that we don’t live in a liberal society that believes in freedom.

Or as Ice T once put it, “freedom of speech, just watch what you say.” I can’t help but feel that Liberalism might be a fantastic idea, if anyone would ever think to try it. It might even work. Maybe it did, for a while.

I know your posts deserve a deeper dive - and I’ll certainly give them a good grilling - but it’s a really powerful discussion about what’s happening, and what’s changed in Trump.

The expansionism of super powers is well argued. Greenland can actually be seen in the context of the seas around it and controlling any potentially hostile traffic there. It’s not the most wild suggestion, if you think about it. I’m not sure Greenland was ever happily Danish. But of course there’s a dark side to this too. An Olde Worlde quality that has to make us pause, and think, and shiver a little..
 
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Federberg

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Stay firm in face of Donald Trump’s divide and rule

President’s treatment of Zelensky leaves the western alliance in its gravest crisis since 1945 — but we must pull through


Max Hastings

Monday March 03 2025, 12.01am, The Times
Amid turbulence greater than has rocked the Atlantic alliance since 1945, it does no good merely to pile the abuse mountain higher. The West’s predicament is so serious that it would waste verbiage to reprise obvious truths about Donald Trump. We must instead reflect on precedents, and explore future courses.

Have we ever been here before? Think Poland. Churchill in 1945 was distraught that the nation for whose freedom Britain had gone to war with Hitler should fall into the bloody maw of Stalin. The prime minister stood accused of naivety in making a deal at Yalta for Polish free elections which the Russians had no intention of honouring. Yet Churchill saw no choice save to trust Stalin when the dying President Roosevelt refused to quarrel with the Kremlin. Moreover the Americans arguably displayed a realism from which the British recoiled, by acknowledging that the Russians occupied Poland. The Red Army had got there first.

In May 1945 Churchill, despairing and frustrated at finding the Yalta deal betrayed, ordered Britain’s chiefs of staff to draw up a plan for the western allies to expel the Russians from Poland by force. The outcome was Operation Unthinkable, a blueprint for an assault by 47 American and British divisions. In this amazing document the chiefs used the adjective “hazardous” eight times. Their chairman, Field Marshal Sir Alan Brooke, wrote in his diary: “The whole idea is of course fantastic and the chances of success quite impossible”.

The planners observed that “even if our objective is no more than a square deal for Poland, the scope of such a conflict would not be ours to determine. If [the Russians] want total war, they are in a position to have it.” When the Unthinkable proposal was submitted to Washington, the new Truman administration unhesitatingly dismissed it. Poland was served on toast to the Kremlin.

Of course Ukraine’s plight is different, but there seem four relevant points: the Russians have achieved military ascendancy there; justice plays scant part in international relations; Putin is playing Stalin’s old Polish game; yet we cannot launch an Operation Unthinkable.

The distinguished strategic analyst François Heisbourg wrote before the weekend train wreck in Washington that the outcome in Ukraine “will either blunt or sharpen Russia’s pursuit of its broader aim … to recreate a latter-day Russian empire by limiting the sovereignty of the states [of eastern Europe]”.

If the US continues to refuse air support for European military peacekeepers in Ukraine, there will be no such deployment. The likeliest consequence of the Trump administration’s withdrawal, if persisted with, is that President Zelensky’s country will become, sooner or later, a Russian vassal state like Belarus, and probably also Georgia, just as did Poland in 1945. With the Americans offering shameless support to Vladimir Putin, and shameless animosity to Volodymyr Zelensky, the Europeans lack the military power, and — as yesterday’s summit suggests, for all its fine words — probably also the will, themselves to protect Ukraine.

We should certainly not acquiesce in Zelensky’s martyrdom, a tragedy not only for Ukraine but for freedom everywhere. Our leaders must continue to strive to keep the Americans in the game, by urging a peace plan upon Washington. We should ship all such arms as we can muster for as long as the Ukrainians continue to fight, and it is welcome that the prime minister confirmed the commitment to do this. But we cannot rearm ourselves remotely fast enough to undo the consequences of Trump’s treachery — and his actions, if persisted with, indeed represent treachery to America’s historic allies.

We must strengthen our defences on a scale thus far unspoken of at Westminster, if we wish to have any voice in an ugly new world in which might is to be deemed right. I am doubtful whether Sir Keir Starmer is yet ready to embrace such radical action, but his duty to our country demands it. We must think beyond the immediate threat to an epochal future requirement to protect ourselves without much America.

The British government should continue to address the Trump administration with superhuman restraint, but concede no point of principle, and recognise that mere subservience will get us nothing. Trump respects only strength. Compassion is not in his lexicon.

He seeks to divide and rule America’s allies; to break the economic power of the EU by promoting the political power of the extreme right and fracturing European unity. He appears willing, for today at least, to treat Britain with a certain regal condescension, because he applauds our separation from the continent.

His mood is liable to change tomorrow, however. Britain is a liberal democracy. He is in the business of destroying such polities. I have often urged recognition of the fact that, forgetting nonsense about the special relationship, a lot of Americans do not like us, and such Americans are now in charge. A mere state visit will not change that.

We can traffick with Trump only with extreme caution, while prioritising unity with our neighbours and the other old allies. It is problematic whether we can continue full intelligence-sharing with Washington, amid uncertainty about what Trump’s security appointees might tell Moscow. Few students of global strategy expect this generational crisis — which Starmer’s words at the summit acknowledged as such — to end any time soon. It is unlikely that accord can be restored between Washington and Kyiv. Despite yesterday’s emotional protestations of the Europeans’ goodwill, their real strength of purpose seems doubtful, about rearming on a scale to compensate for American retreat.

Trump revels in high noons at which he casts himself in the principal role. He is sustaining a strike rate of almost one a day, exhausting hundreds of millions of horrified spectators around the world. We are being called upon to hold our nerve, to sustain a sense of order, calm and commitment to reason, when none of these things is on offer from Washington.

Hal Brands, of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, writes in the latest issue of US Foreign Affairs: “The democratic recession of recent years could become a rout if Washington quits the fight for the world’s ideological future — or, worse still, joins the other side … Trump’s world could become a very dark place”.

Somehow we shall come through. But the people of the United States may discover themselves paying a historic price for what is happening, through a collapse of respect for their country and of faith in its word. The betrayal of Ukraine, amid televised presidential conduct such as few mafia bosses would stoop to, can only be forgiven if Trump changes course.

There. I have failed. Despite an expression of good intentions in the first lines of this column, it has proved impossible to complete it without adding to the abuse heaped upon America’s most deplorable president.
 

Federberg

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I’m still wading though these posts because they’re massive but also they’re not as straightforward as the usual. It’s a great discussion, trying to understand what Trump really means when he says things, and why there’s a change in the world order politically. Russia and China are both evil regimes (far as I’m concerned) but both might also say that the Western “liberalism” is evil.

Although it will be dismissed by some as “just some Nazi saying stuff”, but when Viktor Orban says “We want to be an illiberal democracy because we don’t believe in the tenets of Western liberalism”, we could interpret this also as somebody pointing out that, in real life, Western liberalism is actually poisonously illiberal. I know, he’s saying something else - but when we see a so-called liberal like Trudeau freezing the bank accounts of people who disagree with him, and the cancellations, harassments, and violent protests against people who disagree with whatever fashionable cause is on display, the manipulations of social media to support only one side, we know that we don’t live in a liberal society that believes in freedom.

Or as Ice T once put it, “freedom of speech, just watch what you say.” I can’t help but feel that Liberalism might be a fantastic idea, if anyone would ever think to try it. It might even work. Maybe it did, for a while.

I know your posts deserve a deeper dive - and I’ll certainly give them a good grilling - but it’s a really powerful discussion about what’s happening, and what’s changed in Trump.

The expansionism of super powers is well argued. Greenland can actually be seen in the context of the seas around it and controlling any potentially hostile traffic there. It’s not the most wild suggestion, if you think about it. I’m not sure Greenland was ever happily Danish. But of course there’s a dark side to this too. An Olde Worlde quality that has to make us pause, and think, and shiver a little..
you're spot on about the current era of illiberalism. We are not as free as we think we are. We even see it in our daily lives now. Everyone getting tone policed so that the substance of what we say isn't the primary focus but HOW we say it. I hoped that changing that would be one positive of a Trump Presidency but this Ukraine/NATO thing is too much of a. price to pay
 
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Kieran

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This is interesting, to give another slant on the Trump-Zelenskyy meeting, from a barrister in the UK:

 

Federberg

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This is interesting, to give another slant on the Trump-Zelenskyy meeting, from a barrister in the UK:


This is a similar argument that people like Bill Ackerman have made. I can't agree to it. Yes, Zelensky was defensive, and rightly so. Let me put it this way... since 2014 there've been almost 20 agreements between Russia and Ukraine, and Russia has broken all of them. ALL! I can't understand what people expect Zelensky to do. He would be derelict his duty if he doesn't insist on a security guarantee to ensure Putin. doesn't renege on the deal. But it's worse than that. Trump and Vance KNOW that Russia will reneger, once they've been able to reset, so they can go again. But they expect Zelensky to sit back and go along with the charade. For Trump and Vance it's an exercise that's little more than performative with a view to improving their polling. For Zelensky it's existential. His people are DYING. I don't get the disconnect. The inability of these people to empathise with his position. It's like they think thousands of Ukrainian lives are worth nothing!

People are welcome to review that entire 40 minutes and find the place where Trump and Vance talk about how they'll ensure Putin complies with any agreement. There's no fire or fury!
 
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Kieran

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This is a similar argument that people like Bill Ackerman have made. I can't agree to it. Yes, Zelensky was defensive, and rightly so. Let me put it this way... since 2014 there've been almost 20 agreements between Russia and Ukraine, and Russia has broken all of them. ALL! I can't understand what people expect Zelensky to do. He would be derelict his duty if he doesn't insist on a security guarantee to ensure Putin. doesn't renege on the deal. But it's worse than that. Trump and Vance KNOW that Russia will reneger, once they've been able to reset, so they can go again. But they expect Zelensky to sit back and go along with the charade. For Trump and Vance it's an exercise that's little more than performative with a view to improving their polling. For Zelensky it's existential. His people are DYING. I don't get the disconnect. The inability of these people to empathise with his position. It's like they think thousands of Ukrainian lives are worth nothing!

People are welcome to review that entire 40 minutes and find the place where Trump and Vance talk about how they'll ensure Putin complies with any agreement. There's no fire or fury!
I agree, but I think the devils advocate version says that the meeting with Zelenskyy went fine until Zelenskyy - correctly - wanted more guarantees about security, but that they were never going to do that in public because the peace negotiations in person with Putin haven’t started yet and it would jeopardise them if they started with basically telling the truth that Putin is a tyrant, a thug, and all the bad things he is, because there’s no way they’ll get him in the room to talk.

So - according to this version - Zelenskyy might have kept his powder dry until the real talks begin. But I haven’t watched the whole Oval Office discussion - the barrister has a follow-up video reacting to the media essentially cherry picking 10 minutes from the whole discussion and framing the outcome negatively, whereas, for example, Trump clearly said at the start he’s on Zelenskyy’s side.

I’m not saying this guy is correct, and definitely there’ll be no good faith negotiation from Putin’s side, none at all, but if you asked me if it’s possible that the media reported an anti-Trump agenda, I’d tend to say that’s highly likely too..
 
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Federberg

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I agree, but I think the devils advocate version says that the meeting with Zelenskyy went fine until Zelenskyy - correctly - wanted more guarantees about security, but that they were never going to do that in public because the peace negotiations in person with Putin haven’t started yet and it would jeopardise them if they started with basically telling the truth that Putin is a tyrant, a thug, and all the bad things he is, because there’s no way they’ll get him in the room to talk.

So - according to this version - Zelenskyy might have kept his powder dry until the real talks begin. But I haven’t watched the whole Oval Office discussion - the barrister has a follow-up video reacting to the media essentially cherry picking 10 minutes from the whole discussion and framing the outcome negatively, whereas, for example, Trump clearly said at the start he’s on Zelenskyy’s side.

I’m not saying this guy is correct, and definitely there’ll be no good faith negotiation from Putin’s side, none at all, but if you asked me if it’s possible that the media reported an anti-Trump agenda, I’d tend to say that’s highly likely too..
I like Blackbelt Barrister, he does a lot of good things educating people about the law. I think he should stick to his day job to be honest. That whole thing felt like a set up. I don't think there was anything Zelensky could have done to avoid humiliation.

But I do agree that even if Trump had delivered world peace the media wouldn't have spun it well for him :D
 
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Kieran

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I like Blackbelt Barrister, he does a lot of good things educating people about the law. I think he should stick to his day job to be honest. That whole thing felt like a set up. I don't think there was anything Zelensky could have done to avoid humiliation.

But I do agree that even if Trump had delivered world peace the media wouldn't have spun it well for him :D
Yep…to all of that..
 
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Federberg

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We’re going to see a lot of this now, snakes shedding their skin, opportunism that proves whose principles are for sale, in exchange for votes:

California governor says trans athletes in female sports 'deeply unfair'


“Wuh, me? I always believed this!” :facepalm:
I'll take the win and not judge. It's basic common sense after all. There's another way to look at it. After Trump's win, you have to think that some of the more politically savvy Dems have recognised that the ideological capture has been toxic. If this is Newsom finally having the courage to voice what he actually thinks (which is what I believe) then, bravo!
 

Kieran

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I'll take the win and not judge. It's basic common sense after all. There's another way to look at it. After Trump's win, you have to think that some of the more politically savvy Dems have recognised that the ideological capture has been toxic. If this is Newsom finally having the courage to voice what he actually thinks (which is what I believe) then, bravo!
It would be great original if a b politician ever said, “look, I sniffed the wind, I was wrong.” This is the bloke who legalised shop lifting. He’s blowing in the wind like Bob Dylan…
 

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It would be great original if a b politician ever said, “look, I sniffed the wind, I was wrong.” This is the bloke who legalised shop lifting. He’s blowing in the wind like Bob Dylan…
oh I'm not saying he's done enough, but it's a step in the right direction. I don't think the shoplifting thing is correct though. If I remember correctly the shoplifting amount where criminal prosecution is triggered is actually lower in California than in Texas. It's just that for political reasons it's expedient to highlight the issue in California. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I certainly think that California is over regulated and the State spends too much of the tax payers money.
 
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Kieran

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You know, I was thinking about this, and there are women who won’t forget this for different reasons: they’re called Democrats, and they’ll be seething at the injustice that men will no longer be allowed to batter women in the boxing ring and wrestling floor, steal their medals on the track and pool, and will be denied the opportunity to ogle and sexually threaten them in the changing area.

So Jessica is correct in her tweet, but not in the way she thinks..
 
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Moxie

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I think Putin is kind of making a monkey out of Trump. His agreeing to almost nothing that Trump proposes is certainly a power play.

Trump has been bragging/insisting for months that if/when he got elected, he'd end the war in Ukraine in one day. To this end, he meets with Putin and his people twice before he ever meets with Zelenskyy, puts his thumb on the scale hugely in Russia's favor, promises Putin basically everything he wants, rewrites history to turn Zelensky into a dictator, and the instigator of the war, and, while he's at it, decides he'll extort some mineral resources from Ukraine for his trouble.

For all that Trump is prepared to push on the Russian side of the ledger, Russia doesn't ever agree to a full cease-fire. Trump doesn't like to be shown up or told "no," and it seems like that's what Putin is doing, doesn't it?
 
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Kieran

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I think Putin is kind of making a monkey out of Trump. His agreeing to almost nothing that Trump proposes is certainly a power play.

Trump has been bragging/insisting for months that if/when he got elected, he'd end the war in Ukraine in one day. To this end, he meets with Putin and his people twice before he ever meets with Zelenskyy, puts his thumb on the scale hugely in Russia's favor, promises Putin basically everything he wants, rewrites history to turn Zelensky into a dictator, and the instigator of the war, and, while he's at it, decides he'll extort some mineral resources from Ukraine for his trouble.

For all that Trump is prepared to push on the Russian side of the ledger, Russia doesn't ever agree to a full cease-fire. Trump doesn't like to be shown up or told "no," and it seems like that's what Putin is doing, doesn't it?
Putin has made a monkey out of the west for 25 years. Pumping dollars into potentially expanding the war hasn’t worked, nor did handing him Crimea on a silver platter in 2014. It’s hard to see an end to this, without more suffering and pain. A heart attack might help but then we have the old Soviet Union conundrum - who comes next?

Speaking of, I watched The Death of Stalin last week, very funny!
 
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Fiero425

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I think Putin is kind of making a monkey out of Trump. His agreeing to almost nothing that Trump proposes is certainly a power play.

Trump has been bragging/insisting for months that if/when he got elected, he'd end the war in Ukraine in one day. To this end, he meets with Putin and his people twice before he ever meets with Zelenskyy, puts his thumb on the scale hugely in Russia's favor, promises Putin basically everything he wants, rewrites history to turn Zelensky into a dictator, and the instigator of the war, and, while he's at it, decides he'll extort some mineral resources from Ukraine for his trouble.

For all that Trump is prepared to push on the Russian side of the ledger, Russia doesn't ever agree to a full cease-fire. Trump doesn't like to be shown up or told "no," and it seems like that's what Putin is doing, doesn't it?
IDK why people are surprised that Trump over-promised (as usual) & he's now having to deal w/ the fall-out! When his actions (or inactions) are defended, they look more & more unhinged! Regret is on the minds of a lot of these Trump-ster, but that won't help us survive the rest of this very new term! :astonished-face::angry-face::fearful-face::anxious-face-with-sweat:
 
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