US Politics Thread

[Kieran]

How's the jobs report going to look after President Musk has fired all of these government workers?

Just a question: do you think that government bureaucracies in general are crippled by bloat in the west?

Personally speaking, as I said a couple pages ago, if I was American, I would have preferred Vivek doing this job, as a matter of principle he crosses the aisle to have discussions, he’s always polite and clear headed, whereas for all his brilliance, Musk is a divisive figure who doesn’t mind being that way. He’s never going to get everyone behind him, no matter what good he does.

And right now in the west, we need people who can cross the floor and unite people. This was what was so banally predictable and disappointing about Biden - he had the chance to be a president for everybody but instead he cranked up the culture wars and everyone was sick of it…

 

[Federberg]

How's the jobs report going to look after President Musk has fired all of these government workers?

not sure at this point in the cycle that will matter that much. Obviously not good, but they'll have a strong argument in favour of fiscal trimming. It'll matter more in election season if it hasn't recovered, or if there's some sort of crisis and essential workers are no longer there. They're being smart, front loading all the bad stuff in the hopes that things recover. I think you need to be more concerned about if they succeed. Because that'll set a precedent than Republican governments will use going forward

 

[Moxie]

Just a question: do you think that government bureaucracies in general are crippled by bloat in the west?

Personally speaking, as I said a couple pages ago, if I was American, I would have preferred Vivek doing this job, as a matter of principle he crosses the aisle to have discussions, he’s always polite and clear headed, whereas for all his brilliance, Musk is a divisive figure who doesn’t mind being that way. He’s never going to get everyone behind him, no matter what good he does.

And right now in the west, we need people who can cross the floor and unite people. This was what was so banally predictable and disappointing about Biden - he had the chance to be a president for everybody but instead he cranked up the culture wars and everyone was sick of it…

Sure I think that bureaucracies have fat that could be trimmed, that they could be made to run more efficiently. However, I don't have the same allergic reaction to the word that a lot of people do in the US and around the world, as in your case. As in, I wouldn't use the word "crippled." Similar to how I don't think that "politician" by definition implies "corrupt" or "morally bankrupt." I believe it's because I grew up in DC and was surrounded by people who worked as bureaucrats, military and politicians, and I knew them to be generally ethical, conscientious, capable, conservative (small c) hard-working people.

I know you've traveled a lot in Italy, and you know I lived there for a time, so you may have been exposed to Italian levels of bureaucracy. THAT is, or used to be, some crippling bloat. My Italian friends were the first to complain. I had a friend pay for her new telephone line, get the "permit" only to wait so long to have it installed that the permit expired. An Italian friend here who left Italy 25+ years ago was buying a small fixer-upper house in Puglia (a very cunning "trullo",) and she was complaining about the banking and city rigamarole taking forever, and I said, "Isn't this why you left Italy?" She nodded, ruefully. But she does now how that adorable place.

So I don't think the US is that bad. If you want to trim fat, a chain saw isn't the way to do it. Musk (and Trump) have no idea what they're doing, or what they're losing. They don't care. You've seen them have to walk some of these firings back. (Oops, we fired the people who keep an eye on the nuclear warheads.) This is not a matter of who could work "across the aisle." It's a matter of the "slash-and-burn" method of Musk not being the best choice. I don't know if Vivek is less arrogant than Musk, but if so that would have been better. Musk shares Trump's belief that being rich and successful makes him smarter and morally superior to most human beings, which, particularly in their cases, is incorrect.

 

[Moxie]

not sure at this point in the cycle that will matter that much. Obviously not good, but they'll have a strong argument in favour of fiscal trimming. It'll matter more in election season if it hasn't recovered, or if there's some sort of crisis and essential workers are no longer there. They're being smart, front loading all the bad stuff in the hopes that things recover. I think you need to be more concerned about if they succeed. Because that'll set a precedent than Republican governments will use going forward

I actually do need to hope it succeeds. I live here. You're cynical to say I hope it not work for only partisan reasons. Remember, I'm going down with this ship, too. They are doing a LOT of things wrong, and the polls are starting to reflect that. But if this economic plan works, much will be forgiven. Well, that works for me, too. I need my money not to be shrinking right now, same as everyone. In either case, Dems have a long way to go to win the people back. And we've already established that "at least we're not the Republicans" isn't working as a campaign slogan.

 

[Kieran]

Sure I think that bureaucracies have fat that could be trimmed, that they could be made to run more efficiently.

There ya go, we agree.

By the way, I know you lived in Italy but not in the EU, which is an uncaring tyrannical behemoth of bureaucracy that gets more and more distant from its subjects every year.

Don’t take my word for it, here’s Colm Toibin issuing a warning immediately after the British voted for Brexit. Almost ten years ago - I would say it’s more valid now.

Colm Tóibín: EU must open up after Brexit​

However, I don't have the same allergic reaction to the word that a lot of people do in the US and around the world, as in your case. As in, I wouldn't use the word "crippled." Similar to how I don't think that "politician" by definition implies "corrupt" or "morally bankrupt." I believe it's because I grew up in DC and was surrounded by people who worked as bureaucrats, military and politicians, and I knew them to be generally ethical, conscientious, capable, conservative (small c) hard-working people.

But things can change, and I don’t necessarily believe that “politician” means “corrupt” or “morally bankrupt” because I live in hope, most of the time. But generally in the west, the quality of our candidates is miserable, generally.

So I don't think the US is that bad. If you want to trim fat, a chain saw isn't the way to do it. Musk (and Trump) have no idea what they're doing, or what they're losing. They don't care. You've seen them have to walk some of these firings back. (Oops, we fired the people who keep an eye on the nuclear warheads.) This is not a matter of who could work "across the aisle." It's a matter of the "slash-and-burn" method of Musk not being the best choice. I don't know if Vivek is less arrogant than Musk, but if so that would have been better. Musk shares Trump's belief that being rich and successful makes him smarter and morally superior to most human beings, which, particularly in their cases, is incorrect.

I doubt that Trump or Musk think what you say there, but it’s funny to see Democrat voters think this. You’re the group the gave us chest-feeding, remember? Female penises? I would say that’s not only morally inferior, but sick. And definitely not smart. But anyway, we can agree that there’s some necessity to trim, we may not agree on what needs to be trimmed, but the left tend to prefer Bigger Government, and so it’s natural that they’re going to hate all this scissors work..

 

[Moxie]

There ya go, we agree.

By the way, I know you lived in Italy but not in the EU, which is an uncaring tyrannical behemoth of bureaucracy that gets more and more distant from its subjects every year.

Don’t take my word for it, here’s Colm Toibin issuing a warning immediately after the British voted for Brexit. Almost ten years ago - I would say it’s more valid now.

Colm Tóibín: EU must open up after Brexit​

But things can change, and I don’t necessarily believe that “politician” means “corrupt” or “morally bankrupt” because I live in hope, most of the time. But generally in the west, the quality of our candidates is miserable, generally.

I doubt that Trump or Musk think what you say there, but it’s funny to see Democrat voters think this. You’re the group the gave us chest-feeding, remember? Female penises? I would say that’s not only morally inferior, but sick. And definitely not smart. But anyway, we can agree that there’s some necessity to trim, we may not agree on what needs to be trimmed, but the left tend to prefer Bigger Government, and so it’s natural that they’re going to hate all this scissors work..

I told you that Italy was bureaucracy heavy then, and my story about my friend is recent, so EU times. I'm talking about the US version, which is really not so bad. I was helping my brother with his social security, and his office is super-easy to deal with, barely any waiting, you can ask for a person by name. But he lives in a small rural state. I wondered what would happen when I have to deal with it, here in NYC. Know what? I called yesterday, and I got a guy who's voice I recognized, and asked his name. He's the guy who sorted out a problem for me last fall, when social security owed me money due to a fault of theirs. He investigated, said it was their fault, and got me the back monies and it not very much time at all. I walked in there cold last fall, no appt., I got help, and was in and out in 45 minutes or less. And this is frigging social security. Not bad at all.

As to the other, you're back to equating everything with your definition of "woke-ness," which here is comparing apples to oranges. Not in your world, I guess, but you really need to broaden your range. Your view has narrowed terribly, and you see everything through the same lens. That song gets tired. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.)

 

[Kieran]

As to the other, you're back to equating everything with your definition of "woke-ness," which here is comparing apples to oranges. Not in your world, I guess, but you really need to broaden your range. Your view has narrowed terribly, and you see everything through the same lens. That song gets tired. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.)

I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about here. As for the rest of it, good for you for something happening fast. It’s not always the case…

 

[Moxie]

As for the rest of it, good for you for something happening fast. It’s not always the case…

Forgive me, but how would you know? We're talking about US bureaucracy here, because that's the one being dismantled. Even the dreaded and much-joked about Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) in NYC has been streamlined and works much better. My frustrations are 100% with insurance companies more than bureaucracies. Because they are built to stonewall, be impossible to deal with or even reach, to delay and deny, etc....Everyone in this country knew immediately why that CEO of United Health got shot, long before they even had a suspect. And these are private companies. Musk and his man/boys are taking a chainsaw to these career bureaucrats' jobs, and that's his metaphor. Like a lot of people in the US, I think more discernment would have been in order. They are not cutting "fat." They are lying about peoples' lack of qualifications, and they are not considering ramifications down the road. Even Republicans worry that the fall-out will most effect their own states. Remember it's the majority Republican states, generally, that get more money and aid from federal programs...which take staff to distribute the help.

 

[Kieran]

Forgive me, but how would you know? We're talking about US bureaucracy here, because that's the one being dismantled. Even the dreaded and much-joked about Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) in NYC has been streamlined and works much better. My frustrations are 100% with insurance companies more than bureaucracies. Because they are built to stonewall, be impossible to deal with or even reach, to delay and deny, etc....Everyone in this country knew immediately why that CEO of United Health got shot, long before they even had a suspect. And these are private companies. Musk and his man/boys are taking a chainsaw to these career bureaucrats' jobs, and that's his metaphor. Like a lot of people in the US, I think more discernment would have been in order. They are not cutting "fat." They are lying about peoples' lack of qualifications, and they are not considering ramifications down the road. Even Republicans worry that the fall-out will most effect their own states. Remember it's the majority Republican states, generally, that get more money and aid from federal programs...which take staff to distribute the help.

I was referring to your personal remark, not the rest of the post…

 

[Moxie]

I was referring to your personal remark, not the rest of the post…

You said things don't always happen fast when working with bureaucracies, was how I took the comment. How was that "personal?" I wasn't quoting the other part, since you haven't a clue, as you say.

 

[Moxie]

not sure at this point in the cycle that will matter that much. Obviously not good, but they'll have a strong argument in favour of fiscal trimming. It'll matter more in election season if it hasn't recovered, or if there's some sort of crisis and essential workers are no longer there. They're being smart, front loading all the bad stuff in the hopes that things recover. I think you need to be more concerned about if they succeed. Because that'll set a precedent than Republican governments will use going forward

What thoughts on Trump's tariffs? The markets didn't react well. How long will this last?

 

[Kieran]

As to the other, you're back to equating everything with your definition of "woke-ness," which here is comparing apples to oranges. Not in your world, I guess, but you really need to broaden your range. Your view has narrowed terribly, and you see everything through the same lens. That song gets tired. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.)

I wasn't quoting the other part, since you haven't a clue, as you say.

Oh I think you wisely avoided it, given that when you say that someone’s “view has narrowed terribly and you see everything through the same lens”, you leave yourself open to the observation that your own view is simply one given to you by the party and you see everything through that lens.

Everything.

Having a “terribly” wide view is what got your party into its delicious mess: you’re open to every fad, fashion and spoofer bringing something “new”, just so long as it’s destructive. Even women got thrown under the bus by your broad wide open views, since the democrats decided they’re now third class citizens…

 

[Federberg]

What thoughts on Trump's tariffs? The markets didn't react well. How long will this last?

the problem with tariffs is that the other side has to respond. I'm guessing the rest of the world will come up with some sort of unified calm response. Otherwise off to the Great Depression 2.0 we go. China is laughing their head off at this

 

[Federberg]

people get upset with me when I call this guy a moron but...THIS!!!!

 

[Kieran]

Thomas Sowell on the tariffs:

 

[Moxie]

Trump's war on DEI takes things way too far. This one was downright mean, and you may have already heard about it, but a group called Equity Arc, which encourages musicianship in young people of diverse ethnic backgrounds, held a contest, and the prize was to play with the US Marine Corps band. Except that it got canceled, in the erasure of DEI initiatives. Instead, retirees from the Marine Corps band were enlisted to come to DC and play with the HS students, instead.

I mean...really? Does everything have to go out with the bathwater?

What musicians did after an executive order on DEI led to the cancellation of U.S. Marine Band collaboration

After an executive order ending DEI initiatives, the U.S. Marine Band canceled a concert featuring young musicians of color. Veterans stepped in to mentor the aspiring musicians.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Federberg]

Trump's war on DEI takes things way too far. This one was downright mean, and you may have already heard about it, but a group called Equity Arc, which encourages musicianship in young people of diverse ethnic backgrounds, held a contest, and the prize was to play with the US Marine Corps band. Except that it got canceled, in the erasure of DEI initiatives. Instead, retirees from the Marine Corps band were enlisted to come to DC and play with the HS students, instead.

I mean...really? Does everything have to go out with the bathwater?

What musicians did after an executive order on DEI led to the cancellation of U.S. Marine Band collaboration

After an executive order ending DEI initiatives, the U.S. Marine Band canceled a concert featuring young musicians of color. Veterans stepped in to mentor the aspiring musicians.

www.cbsnews.com

fruit of the poisoned tree as they say. At this stage the whole DEI nonsense needs to be utterly crushed and swept away. We normies are so sick and tired of this identity culture nonsense. It can all got the way of the new Snow White movie as far as I'm concerned

 

[Moxie]

fruit of the poisoned tree as they say. At this stage the whole DEI nonsense needs to be utterly crushed and swept away. We normies are so sick and tired of this identity culture nonsense. It can all got the way of the new Snow White movie as far as I'm concerned

This is too cynical. There are reasons to lift people up. The Trump administration has tipped too far over into propping up mediocre talents just because they are NOT women or people of color. No to Black History Month, but celebrating St. Patrick's Day is fine. It's fairly obvious where they're going with all of this.

 

[Moxie]

the problem with tariffs is that the other side has to respond. I'm guessing the rest of the world will come up with some sort of unified calm response. Otherwise off to the Great Depression 2.0 we go. China is laughing their head off at this

How're you feeling about this now? Janet Yellen has called this a great "self-inflicted wound" on Trump's part. He took a perfectly good economy and tanked it. Even the bond market is shaky.

He has also completely reneged on his promised to provide pocketbook relief immediately. He's losing a lot of support from the general populace, who do not see where all of this is going, or how it is benefitting them.

 

[Moxie]

While we all knew that the ones who could benefit from the stock market crashing were the very rich, Trump couldn't help bragging about it.

Trump brags that billionaire pals made a killing after he pulled the plug on tariffs

President Donald Trump gleefully recounted how much money his billionaire pals made on the stock market after he suddenly suspended most of his worldwide tariffs.

www.independent.co.uk