US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

You misunderstand. I'm not equating the two. Both of them represent the same coalition of hard right / racists though. It's not about them , it's about the people in the hinterland who support their views. I do recognise there are differences, hence my use of the word coalition. One is old America and the other is white anarchy

OK, I get that, but what it represents in general, and what Trump will tolerate are two different things. Trump wants Sessions out. But he protects Bannon. Whatever you call the "hinterland" matters nothing at all. They haven't abandoned Trump (yet,) so whatever he says, goes, for them. They don't give a shit about the difference between Sessions and Bannon.

 

[Federberg]

OK, I get that, but what it represents in general, and what Trump will tolerate are two different things. Trump wants Sessions out. But he protects Bannon. Whatever you call the "hinterland" matters nothing at all. They haven't abandoned Trump (yet,) so whatever he says, goes, for them. They don't give a shit about the difference between Sessions and Bannon.

I'm not saying they see a difference between the two. I'm not sure you understand the point I'm making. The RNC establishment is gone from the WH now. Trump is savaging Sessions and could well get rid of him soon, it's clear from Scaramuccis rants that Bannon is the next likely target, he's not exactly loved by la famiglia anyway. If that happens, two important parts of the Republican coalition are lost to the WH. I suggest to you that if that happens any legislative potential in this WH is gone. And furthermore I'm not sure that Trumps base will remain that secure either. Have you noticed how Breitbart is now becoming more critical of Trump? And thought leaders like Coulter and Limbaugh are not exactly toeing the line anymore. Trump could get very vulnerable very quickly, just saying

 

[Moxie]

I'm not saying they see a difference between the two. I'm not sure you understand the point I'm making. The RNC establishment is gone from the WH now. Trump is savaging Sessions and could well get rid of him soon, it's clear from Scaramuccis rants that Bannon is the next likely target, he's not exactly loved by la famiglia anyway. If that happens, two important parts of the Republican coalition are lost to the WH. I suggest to you that if that happens any legislative potential in this WH is gone. And furthermore I'm not sure that Trumps base will remain that secure either. Have you noticed how Breitbart is now becoming more critical of Trump? And thought leaders like Coulter and Limbaugh are not exactly toeing the line anymore. Trump could get very vulnerable very quickly, just saying

I do understand that the Trump WH has set itself adrift from anyone who could reasonably make peace with Congress, and their potential for making legislative headway is eroding by the day. (#lastnight) I do completely agree with you that Trump is losing a lot of ground legislatively. And with the Washington status quo, which shouldn't be underestimated. If he really is losing Coulter, Limbaugh and Breitbart, though, then he's done. Those are the ones that dog-whisper to his base. If they turn on him, then the lack of clothes will be exposed for this emperor-of-fake. Without the shouty support of those clowns, he's nothing.

 

[britbox]

Coulter has been pretty consistent in saying her support is not unconditional from the get-go.

 

[britbox]

Trump never wanted this job. All he wanted was to prove to the world that he could win. Now that he is stuck with this,he is hating every minute of it and he is looking for a way out. It will happen within a year I believe.

I think he did want the job, but now he's seen it from the inside probably doesn't want it. I don't think he's used to internal and external flak of this magnitude. In his companies he could just fire people with little blowback... in politics, it's a different matter and he's firing people every week.

He's got a lot of powerful people and organisations that don't want him there... once one crisis is over, you can bet your bottom dollar, another one will crop up. He won't be allowed to do this job, regardless.

 

[britbox]

The one thing that might save Trump is if he gets the US involved in some major International confrontation. The only time we've seen the mainstream media (outside Fox) get behind him was when he fired a few Tomahawk missiles into Syria. If I was Kim Jong-un, I'd be getting worried about domestic US politics... because that may be the trigger that sees North Korea come under the military microscope.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I'm not saying they see a difference between the two. I'm not sure you understand the point I'm making. The RNC establishment is gone from the WH now. Trump is savaging Sessions and could well get rid of him soon, it's clear from Scaramuccis rants that Bannon is the next likely target, he's not exactly loved by la famiglia anyway. If that happens, two important parts of the Republican coalition are lost to the WH. I suggest to you that if that happens any legislative potential in this WH is gone. And furthermore I'm not sure that Trumps base will remain that secure either. Have you noticed how Breitbart is now becoming more critical of Trump? And thought leaders like Coulter and Limbaugh are not exactly toeing the line anymore. Trump could get very vulnerable very quickly, just saying

How could you use the two bolded parts in the same sentence?

 

[Nekro]

ok, so i see the usual stuff is going on here, Priebus against Scaramucci, one clown againt the other, he's cutting ties with congress, impeachment incoming etc etc ....

so here's my simplified version, you can call it conspiracy theory or whatever, ofc not sure it's like this, maybe i'm overestimating Trump's zionist crew and their contacts...... however...

I think Moxie is totally fucking wrong that she thinks Bannon is still a key figure (or he ever was) here, Trump pushed him aside for the sake of Kushner in a sec, completely humiliated him into the ground, imo Bannon is frustrated as fuck.....

Anyway, my main point here is that the zionists in the USA never had a better puppet than Trump, we already know he's in the hands of the Russian jews, lots of dark secrets there, they can blackmail him 'til the end of time, then there are the American jews, ofc we just see the tip of the iceberg, like the Kushners, Rosensteins, Stadtmayers but there are very big sharks in the deep water...... and ofc Trump has Israel's full support, it's just a symbolic gesture but he visited the vagina wall as the first sitting USA president...

so imo all the bickering has smaller importance than what people think, imo the circus will go on but Trump will stay, the big sharks won't let some FBI clowns, some leakers and some congress monkeys ruin the party when they are now in full control......

 

[Moxie]

I think he did want the job, but now he's seen it from the inside probably doesn't want it. I don't think he's used to internal and external flak of this magnitude. In his companies he could just fire people with little blowback... in politics, it's a different matter and he's firing people every week.

He's got a lot of powerful people and organisations that don't want him there... once one crisis is over, you can bet your bottom dollar, another one will crop up. He won't be allowed to do this job, regardless.

I sort of agree with Murat that he didn't really want the job, he just wanted to win. And seriously didn't think he was going to. Now his life and finances are under scrutiny that he's not used to. This Russia thing is not going away, and they are not handling it well. He's threatening to fire the special prosecutor on the Russia investigation, which was exactly what brought down Nixon.
It`s not a question of being "allowed" to do his job. He's not doing it. He tweets, but makes no real effort to lead. There is no statesmanship getting his legislation through. He and his people have no idea what they're doing, and they are making a mockery of the office of the President of the United States. They have lowered the level of discourse in that office to gangster parlance and worse. The notion of conflict of interest has completely blown out the window. And the fact that we have an actual worry that the Russians fiddled our elections seems to be a partisan issue, not the hair on fire concern that it should be for all of us.

He uses distractions like banning transgender people from the military to keep us from focusing on the worse things they're pushing through. And I don't put it past him to strike at N. Korea, as the ultimate distraction. Trump is a loose cannon and unfit for the job.

 

[Nekro]

Another thing that many in the USA are unfamiliar with, i know that in the USA democracy and freedom and all those things have deep roots and the constitution is stronger than everywhere else but the reaction of the American people is just ridiculous to me, every time a non-player little niemand gets fired they scream: "he can't do that, now impeachment incoming for sure" why exactly?

i know my country is different from the USA but this is exactly what Orbán did, many don't know but before his current long rule he was in power for 4 years then the socialists came and when Orbán got into power again he didn't commit the same mistake and he wiped out everybody and changed all the people everywhere, he changed everybody in the courts, he even changed the constitution, ofc here it was easier, anyway, he made a complete wipeout and people were like now people in the USA: "he can't do that, he's now done" and he could do it and made a complete wipeout and got away with it.....

same like in turkey: he can't fire tens of thousands of people from the educational system, blablabla , ??? he could and he got away with it.....

ofc i'm not an expert on the USA, maybe the constitution, the judicial system, democracy, the libtards and everything is stronger than in eastern europe or turkey or Russia and they will screw Trump in the end but i don't see this wipeout as different from the wipeouts i just talked about, it's just that people haven't seen anything like this before in the USA....

 

[Federberg]

The one thing that might save Trump is if he gets the US involved in some major International confrontation. The only time we've seen the mainstream media (outside Fox) get behind him was when he fired a few Tomahawk missiles into Syria. If I was Kim Jong-un, I'd be getting worried about domestic US politics... because that may be the trigger that sees North Korea come under the military microscope.

I don't think he gets to do that on his own. Thankfully Congress ( which to the framers was meant to be more important than the Presidency) seems to be regaining its senses slowly. If he were that stupid and unilaterally attacks NK his days would truly be numbered

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I don't think he gets to do that on his own. Thankfully Congress ( which to the framers was meant to be more important than the Presidency) seems to be regaining its senses slowly. If he were that stupid and unilaterally attacks NK his days would truly be numbered

Well, without officially getting approval of congress, POTUS can indulge in some limited war. But, once he starts Kim Jong would go crazy. All that we need is two nut jobs to create a lot of chaos.

 

[Federberg]

Well, without officially getting approval of congress, POTUS can indulge in some limited war. But, once he starts Kim Jong would go crazy. All that we need is two nut jobs to create a lot of chaos.

I don't dispute that. The point is this rather different than a missile strike in Syria. Any type of action against NK would result in immediate retaliation against SK. Even if Trump wanted to it would be difficult to do it. Trust me on this that would almost certainly be impeachment territory. You don't get to start WW3 on a whim

 

[Moxie]

I don't dispute that. The point is this rather different than a missile strike in Syria. Any type of action against NK would result in immediate retaliation against SK. Even if Trump wanted to it would be difficult to do it. Trust me on this that would almost certainly be impeachment territory. You don't get to start WW3 on a whim

While those are all good points, our worry is that Trump is all whim and no real contemplation. The last wall of defense against "The Great Id" is if he's got enough reasonable heads to counsel him, and I'm not confident about that.

 

[Federberg]

While those are all good points, our worry is that Trump is all whim and no real contemplation. The last wall of defense against "The Great Id" is if he's got enough reasonable heads to counsel him, and I'm not confident about that.

He's a pussy. More and more I'm convinced of it. You don't go all passive aggressive on Sessions or don't tell the Mexican President to his face that Mexico will pay for the wall if you have balls. His generals and cabinet would immediately tell him that such an attack would certainly result in retaliation by NK, which would precipitate a stock market collapse that would dwarf anything we have ever seen. I honestly believe that if he were to insist the 25th amendment would be immediately in play. Both the millionaires and generals in cabinet would be strongly incentivised for his ouster. Trump knows that, have you not noticed he does what he does for maximum attention minimal real effect? He is not as dumb or capricious as you fear

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I don't dispute that. The point is this rather different than a missile strike in Syria. Any type of action against NK would result in immediate retaliation against SK. Even if Trump wanted to it would be difficult to do it. Trust me on this that would almost certainly be impeachment territory. You don't get to start WW3 on a whim

There are several issues here.

1. Trump may not be intelligent enough to realize he is starting WW3.
2. Even if he realizes that, he may prefer WW3 to his own existential threat.
3. He does not listen to anybody and so no sober consul will prevail.

During WW3, people would not be talking about impeachment. That would actually be part of the calculus here.

 

[Federberg]

There are several issues here.

1. Trump may not be intelligent enough to realize he is starting WW3.
2. Even if he realizes that, he may prefer WW3 to his own existential threat.
3. He does not listen to anybody and so no sober consul will prevail.

During WW3, people would not be talking about impeachment. That would actually be part of the calculus here.

There's a contradiction there. First you say he may not be intelligent enough to realise he's starting WW3 and then you say he might calculate that impeachment would be off the table in a WW3 scenario?

But be that as it may, the more important issue is that any attack on NK would result in an immediate stock market collapse. I'm talking 20% +, in that type of situation the financial community will want him gone. Americas allies will want him gone if that were done for a whim. NATO would want him gone. All of Americas Asian allies would want him gone. Congress would want him gone as he would have usurped their power. As I said it probably wouldn't get there because both JSOC and the cabinet would be forced to explain all these consequences and if he still wanted to do it without a rational reason then Pence would be forced to invoke the 25th. You guys over estimate the crazy. I can understand the hysteria but in the real world it's not as simple as you might think for him to do that

 

[britbox]

Americas allies will want him gone if that were done for a whim. NATO would want him gone. All of Americas Asian allies would want him gone. Congress would want him gone as he would have usurped their power.

So not much different from the current situation?

 

[Federberg]

So not much different from the current situation?

A whole world of different. Right now they are wary. But in that type of scenario they would want him out of office immediately, and the threat would be an end to alliances and other treaties. You don't sit by and allow a crazy man to force your country into war or economic depression on a whim. Not in the real world. And leaders in America would understand that too. And seeing as Trumps base would bear the brunt of the massive job losses he would be in danger of losing them anyway. There is a lot more inertia to high level decision making than many people seem to realise. This isn't the movies

 

[britbox]

A whole world of different. Right now they are wary. But in that type of scenario they would want him out of office immediately, and the threat would be an end to alliances and other treaties. You don't sit by and allow a crazy man to force your country into war or economic depression on a whim. Not in the real world. And leaders in America would understand that too. And seeing as Trumps base would bear the brunt of the massive job losses he would be in danger of losing them anyway. There is a lot more inertia to high level decision making than many people seem to realise. This isn't the movies

I meant the comment in humour, hence the wink.. but agree that the ripple effect would be pretty big.