US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

I thought about posting this on the Jokes thread, but didn't want to pollute it with politics. But I thought this was hilarious:

 

[Federberg]

Has the Arizona SC put the State out of reach for the GOP with this aborttion ruling?

 

[Fiero425]

I thought about posting this on the Jokes thread, but didn't want to pollute it with politics. But I thought this was hilarious:

View attachment 9378

I saw this a while back! What's so sad is how true it is! Trump's playing to the "Religious Right" & they're accepting of his bafoonery since he's making them feel good about being bigoted, misogynist pigs! The lone issue of abortion is being used fraudulantly, but they don't care! They got what they wanted from the Supreme Court, setting the country back 50 years along w/ the women's movement! They're being told the political contributions made will probably go to defending his crimes against the country & populus! Again, they don't seem to care! I say, keep giving money to this snake, but I don't want to hear about how broke they are who are giving money to someone like this who's literally a traitor & war criminal! Hard to believe their choice of "W" was the worst at the time, but they scraped the sewer finding and supporting Trump, so we're getting what some people want; CHAOS!

 

[Moxie]

Has the Arizona SC put the State out of reach for the GOP with this aborttion ruling?

It has ruled this:

"In a 4-2 decision, the court rejected arguments that it should uphold the current 15-week abortion ban signed in 2022 by then-Gov. Doug Ducey (R) and enforced after the end of Roe v. Wade.

Instead, the court ruled that the Civil War-era law passed before Arizona was even a state should be enforced. The court ruled to lift a stay on the law, meaning it goes into effect in 14 days.

However, the justices also sent the case back to a lower trial court to sort out questions about the law’s constitutionality."

Biden narrowly won AZ in 2020.

A state being thrust back to a Civll War era law, before they were even a state? It's certainly not going to do the GOP any favors, in this climate.

 

[Fiero425]

It has ruled this:

"In a 4-2 decision, the court rejected arguments that it should uphold the current 15-week abortion ban signed in 2022 by then-Gov. Doug Ducey (R) and enforced after the end of Roe v. Wade.

Instead, the court ruled that the Civil War-era law passed before Arizona was even a state should be enforced. The court ruled to lift a stay on the law, meaning it goes into effect in 14 days.

However, the justices also sent the case back to a lower trial court to sort out questions about the law’s constitutionality."

Biden narrowly won AZ in 2020.

A state being thrust back to a Civll War era law, before they were even a state? It's certainly not going to do the GOP any favors, in this climate.

It's rulings like this that make me believe we're so close to that destopeon civilization I read so much about in the 60's! Reality is being turned inside out as we go back instead of forward! After "Roe v Wade" overturned, setting back 50 years of precedent, why should we be surprised another conservative court could be this Neanderthal as to go back to Civil War times to overturn precedent? What's next, questioning & overturning of "Brown v Board of Education? I've lost all hope for this country seeing $#!t like this getting worse & worse! Nothing's stopping it as there's more support for it than NOT! Electing Trump has given a small, vocal, & dangerous segment of the population to run over Democracy and the rule of law as it get corrupted w/ these conservative judges the Republicans install during their tenure running the Senate! Elections do have consequences! Women had no idea that by self-hating & voting against Hillary, the women's movement and even civil rights are in jeopardy now! And it's not like they weren't warned! It was pretty scary during the Bush years w/ "Free Speech Zones" & trashing the economy w/ ridiculous tax cuts for the rich! It would be different if it actually helped w/ every day life, but all it does time & time again is double/ triple the Nat'l Debt, inflate unemployment #'s, & create insolvent banking! It truly happens again and again! Dems fix the problem, get us back on our feet, then the cycle repeats itself! I've seen it happen w/ Reagan, Bush, "W,' & Trump! Clinton & Obama only got ridicule for bringing us back from the brink, but we're too dumb to NOT listen! The end can't come soon enough for me as the country spirals out of control!

 

[Federberg]

The Arizona GOP completely owns this issue now, and it contaminates the Republican Party nationwide at this point. A part of me is totally flummoxed by the political irrationality of this, then I remember.. these people don't care about the will of the people. If they lose I think they'll try again. It's the only logical conclusion. They can't possibly think this leads to winning...

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/17/arizona-abortion-ban-repeal

 

[Federberg]

I wonder if the suckers who bought at the highs will still love Trump when they figure out this is just a scam??

 

[Moxie]

This was reported in various media: Romney says that no one pays someone $130k not to have sex with them. I picked this one for the various twitter responses. My favorite was that Romney has no more f***s left to give.

Donald Trump Will Hate What Mitt Romney Just Said About The Hush Money Trial

"So far as I know, you don't pay someone $130,000 not to have sex with you," the Utah senator remarked about the ex-president's payments to Stormy Daniels.

www.huffpost.com

 

[shawnbm]

Who cares he screwed somebody on his own time before he was an elected official? This is the most bogus of the charges he is facing. A far cry from governor and then president William Jefferson Clinton.

 

[Federberg]

Who cares he screwed somebody on his own time before he was an elected official? This is the most bogus of the charges he is facing. A far cry from governor and then president William Jefferson Clinton.

no one cares about the screwing. No one even really cares he was stepping out on his pregnant wife. But the way he hid the information was a criminal act. While at the same time using a media outlet to plant false stories about his opponents. That's something the electorate has a right to know. They might still vote for him, but at least they know better who he is now, if his utterly incompetent and fractious administration wasn't lesson enough.

 

[shawnbm]

This is the most bogus and weakest of the cases against him. Is he an ass who is prone to make stupid comments and will unnecessarily denigrate people on a personal level based on physical characteristics and whatnot? Absolutely, and it is appalling. I have dealt a lot with financial statements given to creditors (also known as banking institutions) and you can find false statements and inaccuracies every day of the week and twice on Sunday. People don't get prosecuted for calling something legal work and paying a lawyer when the lawyer is involved in that or in making account entries for one purpose rather than in other unless it is very material to the deal one is trying to get underwritten and certainly this amount of money in a business Empire like that of the former Pres. is nothing. This is a political attack and if you can prosecute the former Pres. for this, then you might as well go across large swaths of the country and round everybody up and you will get lots and lots and lots of prosecutions, but no one is going to do that because it is not something people do unless there is some other purpose. They can go ahead and prosecute and for other actions in other alleged wrongs, but this one is stupid. I think we all know who he is. Whether we vote for him remains to be seen, but the socialist Eugene Debs got a million votes from jail a century ago. Maybe that will happen again but it should not for this drivel involving Stefanie Cliffords a/k/a Stormy Daniels.

 

[shawnbm]

And, frankly, it is the prosecution of this kind of baloney that can only help his candidacy, not hurt it. I'm not talking about other prosecutions that are pending, only this one. This one is not worth the money being spent on it and it will only serve to make his fanatics more fanatical and may even convince some who are undecided to think that he is being railroaded by the leftist machine in this country that backs Biden and any other leftist there is.

 

[Federberg]

I don't disagree with you that this is the most frivolous case, I use that word rather than weakest because this one looks provable. Is it political, yes for sure. But I'll remind you that Trump could have faced this much much earlier. It didn't have to be deep into the electoral cycle, that was entirely of his own doing with the constant avoidance and delays. But let's be very clear, Republicans do this stuff ALL. the time, and it's become so normal that no one bats an eye. The moment Dems go on the attack. Not the senior Washington guys, just your run of the mill State guys, everyone starts whining that it's unfair. I've never seen anything like it. Where was the same energy when Republicans were going after Hunter Biden? Or Hillary Clinton... crickets. The truth is Republicans have been doing this since Bill Clinton. Turnabout is bitch

 

[shawnbm]

Ah, my man ^^^^

This all has a starting point. Ted Kennedy and the Democrats going after Judge Robert Bork!!!!! THAT is where all this stuff that has become the norm started--way back forty years ago.

 

[Moxie]

This is the most bogus and weakest of the cases against him. Is he an ass who is prone to make stupid comments and will unnecessarily denigrate people on a personal level based on physical characteristics and whatnot? Absolutely, and it is appalling. I have dealt a lot with financial statements given to creditors (also known as banking institutions) and you can find false statements and inaccuracies every day of the week and twice on Sunday. People don't get prosecuted for calling something legal work and paying a lawyer when the lawyer is involved in that or in making account entries for one purpose rather than in other unless it is very material to the deal one is trying to get underwritten and certainly this amount of money in a business Empire like that of the former Pres. is nothing. This is a political attack and if you can prosecute the former Pres. for this, then you might as well go across large swaths of the country and round everybody up and you will get lots and lots and lots of prosecutions, but no one is going to do that because it is not something people do unless there is some other purpose. They can go ahead and prosecute and for other actions in other alleged wrongs, but this one is stupid. I think we all know who he is. Whether we vote for him remains to be seen, but the socialist Eugene Debs got a million votes from jail a century ago. Maybe that will happen again but it should not for this drivel involving Stefanie Cliffords a/k/a Stormy Daniels.

This has got nothing to do with Trump being an ass, or a boor. Nor does it have anything to do with him cheating on his wife. It IS a crime to fiddle your books, which he did. But I think that's a misdemeanor. However, what the prosecution is alleging, is that it was election fraud, which is a felony. What the prosecution has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt to the jury, is that he did it to defraud the electorate, and influence the election, which is "intent," and not that easy to prove, because it's what in his mind. (Which is where I disagree with @Federberg about how easy it will be to prove.) By the timings, it seems clear that he wanted to "kill" that story, and that of the other woman, plus he colluded with the guy from The National Enquirerer, David Pecker, to "catch and kill" stories that were bad for Trump, and also plant stories that would make his opponent look bad, all of this to influence the voters. That's all pretty shady business, which is has been his main business ethic, for decades.

You seem to be in the camp of this being a politically motivated case. You keep calling this "frivolous." I don't think election fraud is frivolous. Also, you should know that the NY DA's office has prosecuted a very similar case before, and against a Democrat. It's just that it was local election stuff, and so didn't get the coverage. I'd have to dig it up, but it was the same kind of thing...the guy cooked the books to cover up the motivation for the payments, and the intent was election fraud. Which I believe the DA won that case.

Just because Donald Trump is running for election again doesn't mean that he isn't a criminal, and all of this is manufactured for political reasons. Personally, I think one of his motivations for running again is to get himself out of legal troubles. He's been asking if he can pardon himself since he was still in office. He's a grifter, and he's playing the big con on the American people. He deserves everything that is being thrown at him, legally. IMO.

 

[Federberg]

This has got nothing to do with Trump being an ass, or a boor. Nor does it have anything to do with him cheating on his wife. It IS a crime to fiddle your books, which he did. But I think that's a misdemeanor. However, what the prosecution is alleging, is that it was election fraud, which is a felony. What the prosecution has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt to the jury, is that he did it to defraud the electorate, and influence the election, which is "intent," and not that easy to prove, because it's what in his mind. (Which is where I disagree with @Federberg about how easy it will be to prove.) By the timings, it seems clear that he wanted to "kill" that story, and that of the other woman, plus he colluded with the guy from The National Enquirerer, David Pecker, to "catch and kill" stories that were bad for Trump, and also plant stories that would make his opponent look bad, all of this to influence the voters. That's all pretty shady business, which is has been his main business ethic, for decades.

You seem to be in the camp of this being a politically motivated case. You keep calling this "frivolous." I don't think election fraud is frivolous. Also, you should know that the NY DA's office has prosecuted a very similar case before, and against a Democrat. It's just that it was local election stuff, and so didn't get the coverage. I'd have to dig it up, but it was the same kind of thing...the guy cooked the books to cover up the motivation for the payments, and the intent was election fraud. Which I believe the DA won that case.

Just because Donald Trump is running for election again doesn't mean that he isn't a criminal, and all of this is manufactured for political reasons. Personally, I think one of his motivations for running again is to get himself out of legal troubles. He's been asking if he can pardon himself since he was still in office. He's a grifter, and he's playing the big con on the American people. He deserves everything that is being thrown at him, legally. IMO.

you're absolutely right that in a legal sense it's probably not easy to prove because of his state of mind. When I said that I actually meant both legally (which you refuted correctly), but I also had in mind that the political damage, i.e., what could seep into the public consciousness, might be the worst in this one for the average Joe. It reveals who Trump truly is in a way classified documents or Jan 6 might not. Sure.. for the likes of you and I, those other ones are more meaningful. But you know what, we both don't need those cases to be concluded for us to have firm opinions. This one might get through in the way some National Enquirer slander might hurt. The irony is delicious to me!

 

[Moxie]

you're absolutely right that in a legal sense it's probably not easy to prove because of his state of mind. When I said that I actually meant both legally (which you refuted correctly), but I also had in mind that the political damage, i.e., what could seep into the public consciousness, might be the worst in this one for the average Joe. It reveals who Trump truly is in a way classified documents or Jan 6 might not. Sure.. for the likes of you and I, those other ones are more meaningful. But you know what, we both don't need those cases to be concluded for us to have firm opinions. This one might get through in the way some National Enquirer slander might hurt. The irony is delicious to me!

I don't know how much this will hurt him, however it goes. Look at @shawnbm's opinion, and he's a reasonable guy. He thinks it's frivolous, and about sex. Or about cooking some books, and "everyone does it." I don't know what the Manhattan DA has to prove to impress people who are already immovable. If they prove their case, to the satisfaction of the jury, some voters have said a felony conviction would sway their vote. But what if they decide this one doesn't count? I think that's possible.

 

[Federberg]

I don't know how much this will hurt him, however it goes. Look at @shawnbm's opinion, and he's a reasonable guy. He thinks it's frivolous, and about sex. Or about cooking some books, and "everyone does it." I don't know what the Manhattan DA has to prove to impress people who are already immovable. If they prove their case, to the satisfaction of the jury, some voters have said a felony conviction would sway their vote. But what if they decide this one doesn't count? I think that's possible.

if the details of the case get out, I have a feeling it will be more impactful than people think. This guy just cheats his way through life. This in conjunction with the E Jean Carroll thing and Trump Company thing... everything he touches now he's losing. I just think that after a while the accumulation is what will get him. It doesn't hurt that none of his family is there, that he's being dominated by the judge and he's doing some old man sleeping. I think the mistake folks are making is looking at these things individually... I think it's the sum total that will break the camel's back

 

[Moxie]

if the details of the case get out, I have a feeling it will be more impactful than people think. This guy just cheats his way through life. This in conjunction with the E Jean Carroll thing and Trump Company thing... everything he touches now he's losing. I just think that after a while the accumulation is what will get him. It doesn't hurt that none of his family is there, that he's being dominated by the judge and he's doing some old man sleeping. I think the mistake folks are making is looking at these things individually... I think it's the sum total that will break the camel's back

I appreciate your optimism that Americans might reach some moral outrage as to Trump, when faced with the facts in court, or the cumulative effect of them. But these facts: that he's cheated on his wife, and screwed over Mom & Pop companies in Atlantic City, i.e., that he has no moral compass, were all known when he was first elected. So a lot of his supporters already give all of that a pass. I guess we'll see if proving some of it in court means more than the press reporting it. I'm not holding my breath. But the old man sleeping in court is something, since they've made so much of Biden's age.

 

[Federberg]

I appreciate your optimism that Americans might reach some moral outrage as to Trump, when faced with the facts in court, or the cumulative effect of them. But these facts: that he's cheated on his wife, and screwed over Mom & Pop companies in Atlantic City, i.e., that he has no moral compass, were all known when he was first elected. So a lot of his supporters already give all of that a pass. I guess we'll see if proving some of it in court means more than the press reporting it. I'm not holding my breath. But the old man sleeping in court is something, since they've made so much of Biden's age.

could be optimism for sure. But I think it's one thing to take a punt on something new, but it's quite another when you've sampled the mediocre output, of the Trump administration, to go back again. If you're dissatisfied with Biden then you're open to another Trump term... until you see this guy just keeps on losing in court. If the primary motivation is negative partisanship then this has to help Biden at the margin..that's my thinking anyway...