US Politics Thread

[Kieran]

Beware of the champagne liberals. They’re often the most racist in the room!

Malcolm X:

The White liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the Black man..

 

[Federberg]

Beware of the champagne liberals. They’re often the most racist in the room!

in the interests of full disclosure. It seems that the tweet that triggered the tiktok response might have been from a fake account. Fairly deep strategy to fragment the African American vote I expect. I'm super impressed, but a bit disgusted as well

 

[Federberg]

Gotta say... those inflation numbers, the power of the US economy, the growth in employment. I know that the GOP has been extremely skilled at pounding two narratives..(1) Biden is senile and (2) the economy isn't doing well. I think that even if as I expect there will eventually be a turn in the economy I don't believe it happens in time to benefit Republicans.

I find it hard to envision a scenario where Biden doesn't have an overwhelming win next year.

 

[Jelenafan]

I just don't get DeSanti’s : How is it a winning national campaign strategy to frame Donald Trump as “pro-Trans” versus yourself?

What’s Really Going On in That Totally Nuts Ron DeSantis LGBTQ+ Video

Serious presidential candidates used to stop short of pledging to eradicate growing demographics of Americans. No more.

slate.com

 

[Jelenafan]

Gotta say... those inflation numbers, the power of the US economy, the growth in employment. I know that the GOP has been extremely skilled at pounding two narratives..(1) Biden is senile and (2) the economy isn't doing well. I think that even if as I expect there will eventually be a turn in the economy I don't believe it happens in time to benefit Republicans.

I find it hard to envision a scenario where Biden doesn't have an overwhelming win next year.

The problem for the Repubs is multifold , the very slim majority in the House has neutered (and publicly humiliated) Majorty leader Kevin McCarthy and he's held hostage by the fringe extreme right. Cannot muster major legislation by Repub consensus on his own so even understandably forced to work with Biden he comes across as toothless.

(Mitch McConnell ever the pragmatist and in the more protected Senate can rally & discipline his people and again he compromises with the executive but Mitch looks stronger.)

These drip drip concessions have some reasoning “ Biden may be losing it, but somehow things get done”

The SC rulings on abortion & now implying gay marriage will be revisited has people in the middle reasoning that things may be veering a *little* too much the other way.

Meanwhile back at the ranch the Repub leading candidate is indicted, probably more charges coming , still refuses to disavow his bromance with Putin, there are hours of video of his people rampaging the Capitol to remind the public and Trump refuses to unequivocally disavow that disaster, and yet somehow with a public track record the voters who didnt vote for him twice are supposed to somehow vote for him the 3rd time around as if fatigue will not set in?

Its enough to make genuine conservatives weep.

 

[Federberg]

what a world we live in that the following is not immediately disqualifying anymore...

"The finding that Ms Carroll failed to prove that she was 'raped' within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr Trump 'raped' her as many people commonly understand the word 'rape'," Judge Kaplan wrote. "Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr Trump in fact did exactly that."

Trump loses retrial bid in E Jean Carroll defamation case

A jury had ordered the ex-president to pay $5m in damages which he argued was excessive.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Federberg]

this is fake news right?

 

[Kieran]

this is fake news right?

It’s trending across several news sites. Hard to believe. Hopefully they stick to their guns..

 

[Moxie]

this is fake news right?

It is, indeed fake/misleading, and maybe try getting your news from something other than twitter, or whatever they're calling it now. ("X" seems all too appropriate.)

Have a look at this:

Gov. Newsom fines Temecula Valley school board $1.5 for rejecting new curriculum

California Governor Gavin Newsom on Wednesday announced that the state would be fining the Temecula Valley Unified School District in an ongoing battle over a social studies curriculum that involves gay rights activist Harvey Milk.

www.cbsnews.com

California approved updated social studies books which include Harvey Milk, an historically important (gay) California supervisor in SF and public figure. They were not merely "proposed" by the governor's office, they were approved by the California School board. Note also that the majority of parents in the Temecula district oppose the actions of a few on the school board there:

"The repeated decisions by board members have drawn the ire of many Temecula parents, who have taken to city streets to protest the decision. They're upset by the board's conscious disregard of public opinion in which 98.8% of TVUSD parents voted to support the adoption of the new curriculum, according to data from the Governor's office."

The dissenting board members make a claim that Milk was a pedophile and had sex with a minor, something I have never heard, and I don't find upon googling. So easy to say about a gay man who was assassinated many years ago, though, right? In any case, this is not about shoving LGTBQ+ "ideology" down anyone's throat. It's about teaching the history of California, and Harvey Milk is part of it. Or would you have him erased?

 

[britbox]

It is, indeed fake/misleading, and maybe try getting your news from something other than twitter, or whatever they're calling it now. ("X" seems all too appropriate.)

Have a look at this:

Gov. Newsom fines Temecula Valley school board $1.5 for rejecting new curriculum

California Governor Gavin Newsom on Wednesday announced that the state would be fining the Temecula Valley Unified School District in an ongoing battle over a social studies curriculum that involves gay rights activist Harvey Milk.

www.cbsnews.com

California approved updated social studies books which include Harvey Milk, an historically important (gay) California mayor and public figure. They were not merely "proposed" by the governor's office, they were approved by the California School board. Note also that the majority of parents in the Temecula district oppose the actions of a few on the school board there:

"The repeated decisions by board members have drawn the ire of many Temecula parents, who have taken to city streets to protest the decision. They're upset by the board's conscious disregard of public opinion in which 98.8% of TVUSD parents voted to support the adoption of the new curriculum, according to data from the Governor's office."

The dissenting board members make a claim that Milk was a pedophile and had sex with a minor, something I have never heard, and I don't find upon googling. So easy to say about a gay man who was assassinated many years ago, though, right? In any case, this is not about shoving LGTBQ+ "ideology" down anyone's throat. It's about teaching the history of California, and Harvey Milk is part of it. Or would you have him erased?

Which part is fake?

Did the the school get fined or not?
Did Harvey Milk have a sexual relationship with a runaway 16 year boy called Jack Galen McKinley who later committed suicide? or not?
Is the age of consent in California 18 or not?

 

[Moxie]

Which part is fake?

Did the the school get fined or not?
Did Harvey Milk have a sexual relationship with a runaway 16 year boy called Jack Galen McKinley who later committed suicide? or not?
Is the age of consent in California 18 or not?

Oh, apparently you, in Australia, are completely current with this Harvey Milk scandal. I wonder why.

The parts that are fake of that twitter post:

"California Governor Gavin Newsom has FINED a school $1.5 million" (true)

"for rejecting the teaching of LGBT gender ideology" (false...it's not "teaching gender ideology" to talk about Harvey Milk, who was a San Francisco mayor. It is historical fact.)

"that was proposed to schools by the Governors office." (misleading...it has also been endorsed by the state.)

"Temecula County school board unanimously voted to reject the curriculum" (False. They voted 3-2.)

Also, as the article above points out, the majority of parents in Temecula School District are in favor of the updated textbook. So it seems to be about 3 activist school board members.

 

[Moxie]

Did Harvey Milk have a sexual relationship with a runaway 16 year boy called Jack Galen McKinley who later committed suicide? or not?
Is the age of consent in California 18 or not?

I looked further into this. Wikipedia says that Jack Galen McKinley had left home at 16, and Milk started a relationship with him when he was 17. The age of consent at that time in California (and all of the US) was 16. Wikipedia said he threatened Milk with suicide when he didn't pay him enough attention. Milk had recruited him to work with him on conservative politics, specifically the Barry Goldwater campaign. Interesting. Milk and Galen had a relationship for several years. By what I can read McKinley had depression issues, exacerbated by drugs and alcohol. He jumped out of a window at aged 33 in NYC. That would have been around 1979. Milk had been living in SF since at latest '75, so there's rather a lot elided in your story, particularly as you seem to like to imply that a poor 16-year-old runaway was abused by Milk and promptly off himself. That would be far from the truth.

Any charge of pedophilia is incorrect, in terms of the law, and also seems off-base in terms of the time. By everything I've read, it was rather a long-term relationship.

Surely this is less controversial than the relationships of many, many, many men who make it into the history books. And much of what Harvey Milk did was not only historic, groundbreaking...he was assassinated in office. I'm not sure how you want California text books to ignore all of that.

EDIT: I found something that says McKinley died in 1980. Milk was assassinated in 1978. By some accounts, an amount of grief was involved in his suicide, as he left letters speaking to that. That seems plausible.

 

[Federberg]

It is, indeed fake/misleading, and maybe try getting your news from something other than twitter, or whatever they're calling it now. ("X" seems all too appropriate.)

I know this will be a challenge for you, but try... try hard not to be an asshole. A simple answer was all that was required.

By the way I've posted things from multiple sources. Many don't meet your approval. I'm glad. It means I'm doing something right. As it happens that tweet was forwarded to me, so you know what to do with yourself

 

[britbox]

I looked further into this. Wikipedia says that Jack Galen McKinley had left home at 16, and Milk started a relationship with him when he was 17. The age of consent at that time in California (and all of the US) was 16. Wikipedia said he threatened Milk with suicide when he didn't pay him enough attention. Milk had recruited him to work with him on conservative politics, specifically the Barry Goldwater campaign. Interesting. Milk and Galen had a relationship for several years. By what I can read McKinley had depression issues, exacerbated by drugs and alcohol. He jumped out of a window at aged 33 in NYC. That would have been around 1979. Milk had been living in SF since at latest '75, so there's rather a lot elided in your story, particularly as you seem to like to imply that a poor 16-year-old runaway was abused by Milk and promptly off himself. That would be far from the truth.

Any charge of pedophilia is incorrect, in terms of the law, and also seems off-base in terms of the time. By everything I've read, it was rather a long-term relationship.

Surely this is less controversial than the relationships of many, many, many men who make it into the history books. And much of what Harvey Milk did was not only historic, groundbreaking...he was assassinated in office. I'm not sure how you want California text books to ignore all of that.

EDIT: I found something that says McKinley died in 1980. Milk was assassinated in 1978. By some accounts, an amount of grief was involved in his suicide, as he left letters speaking to that. That seems plausible.

The age of consent in California was 18 according to these sources referencing California Penal codes.

Statutory Rape - Mistake of Fact as Defense Note 33 University of Missouri at Kansas City Law Review 1965

UMKC LAW REVIEWStatutory Rape-Mistake of Fact as DefenseIn People v. Hernandez,1 the California Supreme Court held,in reversing a judgment of conviction for statutory rape, thatthe defendant's reasonable belief that the prosecutrix hadreached the age of consent could, when fully developed...

heinonline.org

Mistake of Age Becomes a Defense to Statutory Rape in California: Criminal Law. Rape. Mistake on JSTOR

Roger D. Chittum, Mistake of Age Becomes a Defense to Statutory Rape in California: Criminal Law. Rape. Mistake, Stanford Law Review, Vol. 17, No. 2 (Jan., 1965), pp. 309-316

www.jstor.org

https://researchrepository.wvu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3553&context=wvlr

So McKinlay was a runaway delinquent, with drink and drug issues, depression and suicidal tendencies. And underage, according to the letter of the law. Clearly vulnerable. You make me smile Moxie. The double standards you follow to preserve the names of your political idols is astonishing, bordering on absurdity.

 

[Kieran]

So it seems to be about 3 activist school board members.

I can’t help but feel it’s painfully ironic that you described the people who voted against what you’re in favour of as ‘activists’, but when we point to actual activists who are abusing little children and erasing women, you think they’re therapists..

 

[Moxie]

I can’t help but feel it’s painfully ironic that you described the people who voted against what you’re in favour of as ‘activists’, but when we point to actual activists who are abusing little children and erasing women, you think they’re therapists..

I wasn't offering an opinion, I was looking into the truth of that tweet that Federberg posted, who was too lazy to do for himself, or he just chose to believe it and be shock, once again. But go ahead...keep telling me what I'm in favor of.

 

[Kieran]

I wasn't offering an opinion, I was looking into the truth of that tweet that Federberg posted, who was too lazy to do for himself, or he just chose to believe it and be shock, once again. But go ahead...keep telling me what I'm in favor of.

We know what you’re in favour of, you’re quite transparent in that regard. I’ve never seen you in any forum criticise the democrats or the radical left. You never call them out on their obvious lunacies.

And yes, you’re in favour of the rabid blue rinse revolutionaries who are abusing children and erasing women. You have blamed the interviewer of one of them for having an agenda, without batting an eye at crazy angry woman who’s harming kids. You echo their terminology…

 

[Moxie]

I was trying to help you out with a few factual corrections, but no interest in the facts, just shooting the messenger. Carry on with your echo chamber, then.

 

[Kieran]

I was trying to help you out with a few factual corrections, but no interest in the facts, just shooting the messenger. Carry on with your echo chamber, then.

Don’t you see, you’re the one in the echo chamber? You’re reciting talking points from the Dems in every political or social discussion. I can’t think of a single gender or race fad that you’ve shown any critical analysis of. You seem to just accept that your side are the good guys, and what they do is good.

I have no political affiliation. I subscribe to Leonard Cohen’s lines in that regard: I’m neither left or right, I’m just staying home tonight, getting lost in that hopeless little screen. I take each issue on its merits and see where that gets me. A plague on all of those who identify with the left or the right! They’re the ones who cause all the trouble. We should have open minds..

 

[Federberg]

Don’t you see, you’re the one in the echo chamber? You’re reciting talking points from the Dems in every political or social discussion. I can’t think of a single gender or race fad that you’ve shown any critical analysis of. You seem to just accept that your side are the good guys, and what they do is good.

I have no political affiliation. I subscribe to Leonard Cohen’s lines in that regard: I’m neither left or right, I’m just staying home tonight, getting lost in that hopeless little screen. I take each issue on its merits and see where that gets me. A plague on all of those who identify with the left or the right! They’re the ones who cause all the trouble. We should have open minds..

not supporting the left makes you the new right mate. That's the problem with cults. You're either with them or against them. I also get it both from the progressives and those on the right. It actually makes me feel good when both sides rail against me