US OPEN, Flushing Meadows, NY, USA, GRAND SLAM (Men)

[brokenshoelace]

Ha ha ha.

Yeah, but seriously, what odds would you have given him before the tournament considering all of the inactivity, then overload at Rio, and then flaming out at Cincinnati? That doesn't give you much time to groove your game. Essentially, he only had a week to prepare for the USO with barely any time on court in 2 and a half months.

Without that draw and the easy opponents he would've been toast sooner. That he played so well against an in-form player is remarkable to me.

I didn't give him a realistic chance of winning this, and it was pretty obvious with the way he was playing. But it's not much to expect him to beat Pouille. I wouldn't say Rafa played "so-well." He's good enough to where he's not going to get blown off the court even by an in-form opponent, and it's a testament to how good he is in general, rather than how good he's played tonight IMO.

 

[Tennis Fan]

I would strongly suggest a more enterprising brand of tennis, in which he's going for his down the line and inside out forehands far more often. It's amazing to watch Nadal go for SETS without going for his down the line forehand. I'm not talking about the kind of weak down the line forehand that he hits with a shit ton of side spin that ends up landing towards the center of the baseline. I mean the kind of down the line forehand he tried to go for early in the tie-break and narrowly missed.

He's not the same athletic specimen he used to, is a step slower, and is more prone to missing, so he just can't rely on his cross court forehand doing all the work anymore. It's not just going to grind players down with the same effectiveness on a week to week basis.

This isn't one of those generic "Nadal needs to be more aggressive and end points earlier" advice. I'm talking about one specific shot that he needs to hit often and accept that sometimes he's going to miss it, until he finds it. It's so frequent nowadays where he starts matches slow, especially in slams, and isn't going for that shot at all, then his forehand improves as the match progresses because it almost ends up being a practice session, in that when you play for 4 hours, you're going to find your timing to an extent. You could see this happening with Rafa in this match, but when push comes to shove, you won't have the confidence to make the shots you're not comfortable with at crucial moments.

Case in point, the early forehand miss in the tie-break, the awful forehand miss that would have given him match point, and the easy inside out forehand he missed against Del Potro at the Olympics on match-point. You can't just put a shot on standby for such an extended period of time and only go for it when you're feeling good about your game when you're never winning enough to feel good about your game to begin with. Nadal's always done that, except he was winning often enough to where sooner rather than later he'd find his confidence to start going for his shots.

He's went two years with one of his better shots looking like garbage simply because he doesn't have enough confidence to pull the trigger.

I don't want anything drastic. Not changing coaches and getting rid of Toni (the way I'm sure a person or two on certain forums are suggesting), nor tinkering with the serve, nor trying to play a less taxing brand of tennis. Nadal is who he is at this point. I just want him to be who he is when he's feeling good about his game, even when he isn't, if that makes any sense.

I don't have the best tennis mind, but this makes perfect sense to me. I never believed it was all of that stuff that many others were talking about either. I think it is just as you said. I'm glad to see an analysis that makes sense isn't just a bunch of grasping at straws.

 

[Billie]

Lucas in the ESPN studio. Patrick Muratoglou is there as well.

 

[Tennis Fan]

I didn't give him a realistic chance of winning this, and it was pretty obvious with the way he was playing. But it's not much to expect him to beat Pouille. I wouldn't say Rafa played "so-well." He's good enough to where he's not going to get blown off the court even by an in-form opponent, and it's a testament to how good he is in general, rather than how good he's played tonight IMO.

I don't know. I've been watching Pouille all year and this isn't the first time I was impressed with his game.

I know how good Rafa is, but I still think the inactivity, the overload and the flame out take a toll when you haven't been playing competitive tennis and using your wrist in competition for so long.

It'll be the same thing when Federer comes back, having missed six months and if he doesn't pull it together in one or two tournaments people will start doubting him. I don't think that's fair. Everyone else has been on the tour. Their games are grooved. You can't throw people who returned/ or are returning to the mix to pick up where they left off after an injury and time off and be at their previous level. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[brokenshoelace]

In the last couple of years, Rafa has been so much less able to capitalize on leads.

That's another thing. I guess this merits its separate thread but I'll post it here for now:

There's a trend in which he's blowing leads, not capitalizing on moment, losing tight matches/tie-breaks/etc...

Now, most of us just use broad and general terms like "that's normal when you're not confident" and cliches like "winning is a habit." Sure, both are accurate, but how do you regain your confidence? The answer for most is "winning."

But the question, how the hell do you win? And that's where we have to look at specific aspects of tennis, instead of generalities. Yes, everyone understands injuries, confidence, loss of form, age, etc... have affected Nadal. This isn't news.

But if you're going to approach every match/tournament the same way and simply hope that one reverse of fortune gives you something to build on then you could wait a long time, and as I previously mentioned, it's been happening for two years.

Why does Nadal lose these tie-breaks nowadays? And why was he so good at winning them in the past despite never having a great serve? It's because Nadal was the one of the best at raising his intensity and aggression in key moments. Nowadays, he's playing these tie-breaks/key games/key points so tentatively, and more of than not, his opponents, who are trying to make things happen, are succeeding. Pouille didn't play a perfect tie-break. He missed. But he believed in his approach, and kept going for it. He got his reward. I'm not saying it'll work every time. This tie-break could have easily went the other way, but that's not sustainable.

Nadal needs to go for his shots. I'm not even saying go for your forehand earlier in the rally (although I'm sure I actually said that lol), I'm saying go for your shots when you have them lined up. Despite my issues with it this tournament, his cross court forehand is still good enough to set up some situations where he can just unleash the forehand up the line, and he's either taking racket head acceleration off, or avoid going for that shot altogether.

 

[Carol]

Well, in my opinion I think that Rafa is doing enough well after everything he has gone through. Today he has played against a very young good player who has played superb and even that Rafas's forehand and serve have not worked so well he has been close to win and it's something to considerer for futures tournaments instead to think that he can't do better, I think he will

 

[Moxie]

Anyone know how long they're breaking for before the night session begins?

They've got to clear the stadium. That'll take 30-45 minutes, I'd think, to get everyone out, and the night ticket holders in and seated. It's a big-ass stadium. They enter and exit at different points, but that's a lot of people to move.

 

[Tennis Fan]

That's another thing. I guess this merits its separate thread but I'll post it here for now:

There's a trend in which he's blowing leads, not capitalizing on moment, losing tight matches/tie-breaks/etc...

Now, most of us just use broad and general terms like "that's normal when you're not confident" and cliches like "winning is a habit." Sure, both are accurate, but how do you regain your confidence? The answer for most is "winning."

But the question, how the hell do you win? And that's where we have to look at specific aspects of tennis, instead of generalities. Yes, everyone understands injuries, confidence, loss of form, age, etc... have affected Nadal. This isn't news.

But if you're going to approach every match/tournament the same way and simply hope that one reverse of fortune gives you something to build on then you could wait a long time, and as I previously mentioned, it's been happening for two years.

Why does Nadal lose these tie-breaks nowadays? And why was he so good at winning them in the past despite never having a great serve? It's because Nadal was the one of the best at raising his intensity and aggression in key moments. Nowadays, he's playing these tie-breaks/key games/key points so tentatively, and more of than not, his opponents, who are trying to make things happen, are succeeding. Pouille didn't play a perfect tie-break. He missed. But he believed in his approach, and kept going for it. He got his reward. I'm not saying it'll work every time. This tie-break could have easily went the other way, but that's not sustainable.

Nadal needs to go for his shots. I'm not even saying go for your forehand earlier in the rally (although I'm sure I actually said that lol), I'm saying go for your shots when you have them lined up. Despite my issues with it this tournament, his cross court forehand is still good enough to set up some situations where he can just unleash the forehand up the line, and he's either taking racket head acceleration off, or avoid going for that shot altogether.

I think this is all good, and true, but circumstances do play a role, IMO. Practicing does not equate to being in match situations and that's the part that will take the most time to readjust to, not only to what you can do, but also to the different styles of opponents all over again. He has not had that kind of time yet. Everything since the French has had to be squeezed into about one week of tournament play.

 

[Carol]

And I hope the French continues doing a good tournament and also in the future and not only to keep in the memory of every one thinking "He beat Nadal" like others players has done but later haven't done too much

 

[Tennis Fan]

Sidenote to Britbox:

What I have to do to become a major winner in my status. I'm still down with the master's series. I'm better than that, LOL.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal aside, I have to say I'm super impressed with Pouille's fitness.

 

[Carol]

Nadal aside, I have to say I'm super impressed with Pouille's fitness.

Agree, he has showed to have a strong legs, well, he is 22......

 

[Tennis Fan]

And I hope the French continues doing a good tournament and also in the future and not only to keep in the memory of every one thinking "He beat Nadal" like others players has done but later haven't done too much

You know it's coming Carol. C'mon now. I heard at least twenty times this tournament most of the players who beat Serena and Nadal. They do this on a loop, over and over again. I can name every player that has a win over Nadal and Serena in recent years and I don't even keep up with stats. #CommentatorAgenda.

 

[Moxie]

That's another thing. I guess this merits its separate thread but I'll post it here for now:

There's a trend in which he's blowing leads, not capitalizing on moment, losing tight matches/tie-breaks/etc...

Now, most of us just use broad and general terms like "that's normal when you're not confident" and cliches like "winning is a habit." Sure, both are accurate, but how do you regain your confidence? The answer for most is "winning."

But the question, how the hell do you win? And that's where we have to look at specific aspects of tennis, instead of generalities. Yes, everyone understands injuries, confidence, loss of form, age, etc... have affected Nadal. This isn't news.

But if you're going to approach every match/tournament the same way and simply hope that one reverse of fortune gives you something to build on then you could wait a long time, and as I previously mentioned, it's been happening for two years.

Why does Nadal lose these tie-breaks nowadays? And why was he so good at winning them in the past despite never having a great serve? It's because Nadal was the one of the best at raising his intensity and aggression in key moments. Nowadays, he's playing these tie-breaks/key games/key points so tentatively, and more of than not, his opponents, who are trying to make things happen, are succeeding. Pouille didn't play a perfect tie-break. He missed. But he believed in his approach, and kept going for it. He got his reward. I'm not saying it'll work every time. This tie-break could have easily went the other way, but that's not sustainable.

Nadal needs to go for his shots. I'm not even saying go for your forehand earlier in the rally (although I'm sure I actually said that lol), I'm saying go for your shots when you have them lined up. Despite my issues with it this tournament, his cross court forehand is still good enough to set up some situations where he can just unleash the forehand up the line, and he's either taking racket head acceleration off, or avoid going for that shot altogether.

I agree with this completely. He's lost the smell of blood in the water. He waits for errors. He's tentative where he used to be bold, and it's costing him. Pouille said after he knew he had to go for his shots, and he did. He was all about "go big or go home," and Rafa was too much "wait him out" and go home.

In fairness, he is just getting back to the game after the wrist, but these are things he needs to work on, big time. Otherwise, a lot of players will have his number.

 

[Moxie]

Perhaps it's time to hope that a French player breaks the drought on the men's side.

 

[britbox]

Sidenote to Britbox:

What I have to do to become a major winner in my status. I'm still down with the master's series. I'm better than that, LOL.

It goes to Major Winner when you hit 1,000 posts.

 

[britbox]

Results from the U.S. Open Men's Singles Round 4 matches on Sunday

9-Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (France) beat 26-Jack Sock (U.S.) 6-3 6-3 6-7(7) 6-2
10-Gael Monfils (France) beat Marcos Baghdatis (Cyprus) 6-3 6-2 6-3
24-Lucas Pouille (France) beat 4-Rafa Nadal (Spain) 6-1 2-6 6-4 3-6 7-6(6)

 

[britbox]

10-Gael Monfils (France) beat Marcos Baghdatis (Cyprus) 6-3 6-2 6-3

 

[britbox]

9-Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (France) beat 26-Jack Sock (U.S.) 6-3 6-3 6-7(7) 6-2

 

[britbox]

24-Lucas Pouille (France) beat 4-Rafa Nadal (Spain) 6-1 2-6 6-4 3-6 7-6(6)