US Open Day 3: Wednesday, August 28 - Order of Play

[GameSetAndMath]

I'm liking the above from you, Iona, for so many reasons. DO come to NY! What a wash-out of a day for the fans. I saw exactly 3 games of one match (DelPotro v. GG Lopez) before we finally gave up. I've never before seen a drop of rain in all my years of going to the Open, so clearly I've been lucky up until today. I cannot figure out how the USTA (?) decides about scheduling this event, year after year, when it so clearly doesn't work out for them.

Do you get refund/ticket for next day or something like that?

No. I could have gone earlier, and I could still be there watching the matches that are on now. It wasn't a complete wash-out, and I'm not sure what happens, in that case.

I'll say this about the scheduling: HOW can there be women through to the 3rd round when no men are, and some men still have to get to the second? They could front-load the first two days with men's matches, at least to get them through. The men really deserve the two-day rest, whereas the women are playing the same format they play in one-week events. Dumb, dumb, dumb!!

The scheduling is not as dumb as you think. The women's final is on sunday,
whereas men's final is on monday. So, the women need to finish sooner whereas
men can afford to goof off. That is why men's first round is spread over 3 days,
whereas women's first round is over in 2 days. I think it is logical schedule.
Rain creates havoc; the organizers cannot do anything about it. Let us be
reasonable. The scheduling is fair (even if Murray fans go wild).

Remember that Roger also could not get onto the court for his opening
match the very first night.

Yes, but that was still the first night and it had its flexibility. The fact is, Nadal, Federer and Nole are all done with their 1st round matches while Murray still awaits his match on the 3rd day and it's almost 9pm at night.

Everybody is acting as though there is conspiracy here against Murray by the
USO Organizers. These things happen and match scheduling is not exact science.
Remember, what happened to Rafa in this year's FO. He has won FO 7 times before
playing this year and still he got faced with bad scheduling. Did the FO organizers
tried to screw him, no way. Things happen when it cannot be controlled by anyone.
At that time, one needs to accept the reality.

Even worse, I remember that one year in Wimbledon Rafa was forced to
play for 5 or 6 days in a row. He played Soderling, I believe in 1st or 2nd round.
That match alone went for 3 or 4 days.
(No, I am not talking about the famous FO match, I am talking about Wimbledon).
That was the height of suffering caused to any player by scheduling/weather.
To add insult to injury, Roger had somebody withdrawing against him, giving
him few more extra days of rest.

Murray was cool, didn't get agitated and got the business done nicely and
efficiently. If he was overreacting like his fans, he would have gone home by now.

Talking of scheduling complaints, I could never remember Roger complaining
about his schedule in any tournament, whatsoever. I don't know whether it is
because he never had a reason to complain or whether he always took things
in stride.

 

[Moxie]

Do you get refund/ticket for next day or something like that?

No. I could have gone earlier, and I could still be there watching the matches that are on now. It wasn't a complete wash-out, and I'm not sure what happens, in that case.

I'll say this about the scheduling: HOW can there be women through to the 3rd round when no men are, and some men still have to get to the second? They could front-load the first two days with men's matches, at least to get them through. The men really deserve the two-day rest, whereas the women are playing the same format they play in one-week events. Dumb, dumb, dumb!!

The scheduling is not as dumb as you think. The women's final is on sunday,
whereas men's final is on monday. So, the women need to finish sooner whereas
men can afford to goof off. That is why men's first round is spread over 3 days,
whereas women's first round is over in 2 days. I think it is logical schedule.
Rain creates havoc; the organizers cannot do anything about it. Let us be
reasonable. The scheduling is fair (even if Murray fans go wild).

Remember that Roger also could not get onto the court for his opening
match the very first night.

Yes, but that was still the first night and it had its flexibility. The fact is, Nadal, Federer and Nole are all done with their 1st round matches while Murray still awaits his match on the 3rd day and it's almost 9pm at night.

Everybody is acting as though there is conspiracy here against Murray by the
USO Organizers. These things happen and match scheduling is not exact science.
Remember, what happened to Rafa in this year's FO. He has won FO 7 times before
playing this year and still he got faced with bad scheduling. Did the FO organizers
tried to screw him, no way. Things happen when it cannot be controlled by anyone.
At that time, one needs to accept the reality.

Even worse, I remember that one year in Wimbledon Rafa was forced to
play for 5 or 6 days in a row. He played Soderling, I believe in 1st or 2nd round.
That match alone went for 3 or 4 days.
(No, I am not talking about the famous FO match, I am talking about Wimbledon).
That was the height of suffering caused to any player by scheduling/weather.
To add insult to injury, Roger had somebody withdrawing against him, giving
him few more extra days of rest.

Murray was cool, didn't get agitated and got the business done nicely and
efficiently. If he was overreacting like his fans, he would have gone home by now.

Talking of scheduling complaints, I could never remember Roger complaining
about his schedule in any tournament, whatsoever. I don't know whether it is
because he never had a reason to complain or whether he always took things
in stride.

No one except the Murray fans are acting like it's a conspiracy or a travesty, only illogical scheduling. You are missing the point about scheduling. I wish you'd go back to my reasoning for why another choice makes sense. (That women always play 2/3, and men, playing 3/5 only at Slams, need the guarantee of one day off.) And OK, the USO escaped disaster today, but only barely...which the commentators were beginning to admit on US TV, and they are loathe to.

Yes, I do remember that match that Nadal played v. Soderling over 5 days, actually. I think it was in 2007. Now that you mention it, he narrowly lost in the final. And Fed had a w/o on his road to the final? Well, then ask yourself why people are tetchy about potential scheduling disasters.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Hilarious finish! Llodra threw his racquet in the air. Great job, Andy.

Interestingly, even if that racquet had made contact with the ball and
the ball crosses to the other side and Andy could not touch it, it is still
not counted as a point for Llodra.

When the racquet makes contact with the ball, the player is required
to be in control of the racquet for the stroke to be deemed legal.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Gilbert pointed out that 10/32 of the seeds lost in the first round. That's bad.

Sure, it is bad. Expect 6 more to go out in the second round to give a
50% chance for a seed reaching the projected third round.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

No. I could have gone earlier, and I could still be there watching the matches that are on now. It wasn't a complete wash-out, and I'm not sure what happens, in that case.

I'll say this about the scheduling: HOW can there be women through to the 3rd round when no men are, and some men still have to get to the second? They could front-load the first two days with men's matches, at least to get them through. The men really deserve the two-day rest, whereas the women are playing the same format they play in one-week events. Dumb, dumb, dumb!!

The scheduling is not as dumb as you think. The women's final is on sunday,
whereas men's final is on monday. So, the women need to finish sooner whereas
men can afford to goof off. That is why men's first round is spread over 3 days,
whereas women's first round is over in 2 days. I think it is logical schedule.
Rain creates havoc; the organizers cannot do anything about it. Let us be
reasonable. The scheduling is fair (even if Murray fans go wild).

Remember that Roger also could not get onto the court for his opening
match the very first night.

Yes, but that was still the first night and it had its flexibility. The fact is, Nadal, Federer and Nole are all done with their 1st round matches while Murray still awaits his match on the 3rd day and it's almost 9pm at night.

Everybody is acting as though there is conspiracy here against Murray by the
USO Organizers. These things happen and match scheduling is not exact science.
Remember, what happened to Rafa in this year's FO. He has won FO 7 times before
playing this year and still he got faced with bad scheduling. Did the FO organizers
tried to screw him, no way. Things happen when it cannot be controlled by anyone.
At that time, one needs to accept the reality.

Even worse, I remember that one year in Wimbledon Rafa was forced to
play for 5 or 6 days in a row. He played Soderling, I believe in 1st or 2nd round.
That match alone went for 3 or 4 days.
(No, I am not talking about the famous FO match, I am talking about Wimbledon).
That was the height of suffering caused to any player by scheduling/weather.
To add insult to injury, Roger had somebody withdrawing against him, giving
him few more extra days of rest.

Murray was cool, didn't get agitated and got the business done nicely and
efficiently. If he was overreacting like his fans, he would have gone home by now.

Talking of scheduling complaints, I could never remember Roger complaining
about his schedule in any tournament, whatsoever. I don't know whether it is
because he never had a reason to complain or whether he always took things
in stride.

No one except the Murray fans are acting like it's a conspiracy or a travesty, only illogical scheduling. You are missing the point about scheduling. I wish you'd go back to my reasoning for why another choice makes sense. (That women always play 2/3, and men, playing 3/5 only at Slams, need the guarantee of one day off.) And OK, the USO escaped disaster today, but only barely...which the commentators were beginning to admit on US TV, and they are loathe to.

Yes, I do remember that match that Nadal played v. Soderling over 5 days, actually. I think it was in 2007. Now that you mention it, he narrowly lost in the final. And Fed had a w/o on his road to the final? Well, then ask yourself why people are tetchy about potential scheduling disasters.

I have already agreed to the women 2/3 and men 3/5 argument in my response.
However, that argument needs to kick in only when rain/bad weather delay kicks in
and until then the original tournament schedule should be followed. The original
tournament schedule does indeed makes sense assuming there are no weather issues.

 

[Moxie]

^ Except that there are weather issues virtually every year.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Gilbert pointed out that 10/32 of the seeds lost in the first round. That's bad.

maybe some new players winning and coming though, :idea:

could be good news, no ?.

 

[tented]

Gilbert pointed out that 10/32 of the seeds lost in the first round. That's bad.

maybe some new players winning and coming though, :idea:

could be good news, no ?.

That's a good way of looking at it. Now it's a question of who will rise to the challenge with so many seeds out of the way.

 

[Emma]

Everybody is acting as though there is conspiracy here against Murray by the
USO Organizers. These things happen and match scheduling is not exact science.
Remember, what happened to Rafa in this year's FO. He has won FO 7 times before
playing this year and still he got faced with bad scheduling. Did the FO organizers
tried to screw him, no way. Things happen when it cannot be controlled by anyone.
At that time, one needs to accept the reality.

Even worse, I remember that one year in Wimbledon Rafa was forced to
play for 5 or 6 days in a row. He played Soderling, I believe in 1st or 2nd round.
That match alone went for 3 or 4 days.
(No, I am not talking about the famous FO match, I am talking about Wimbledon).
That was the height of suffering caused to any player by scheduling/weather.
To add insult to injury, Roger had somebody withdrawing against him, giving
him few more extra days of rest.

Murray was cool, didn't get agitated and got the business done nicely and
efficiently. If he was overreacting like his fans, he would have gone home by now.

Talking of scheduling complaints, I could never remember Roger complaining
about his schedule in any tournament, whatsoever. I don't know whether it is
because he never had a reason to complain or whether he always took things
in stride.

I don't know if there's a conspiracy but I do know the Defending Champion should not be playing on day 3 at 10pm when majority of the matches have been played and some were scheduled to player their 2nd round match. There's something very disrespectful about that. I'd like to see the reaction if Federer was supposed to play on Day 3 at 10pm to defend his title or if he was ever in that position. Go and feel free to find that information out.

And Federer doesn't take things in his stride. He's almost always handed nice schedules so he and his fans have not much to complain about.

And Andy was pissed judging by his very short answer to Mary. He said and I quote, 'I arrived early and waited'. Because he was scheduled to start at 7pm on Day 3. He can't afford to make big fuss about it because he needs to defend his title and for that reason, he needs to stay calm under difficult circumstances. You'd be wrong to judge Andy and his fans by the same standard. One is not free to speak his mind because he is in the public eye but it's not the same with us fans. And had Del Potro's match gone to the final set, Andy would have had to play at midnight and that would have been the 4th day of the tournament.

And if play gets disturbed by continuous rain than that's unfortunate and it's something not in our hand( but that also means a roof is required and it turns out USO is behind in that regard too and they are the ones who get interrupted by rain the most times). For example, if the defending champion was scheduled to play on Tuesday night as it should have been and it got postponed because of rain, then I don't think anyone here would have complained about it.

 

[masterclass]

Every player that has played for some time has had their matches delayed for whatever reason.

Top players tend to play at night if there are lights to draw bigger television audiences and crowds.
Journeymen tend to play during the day to empty seats.

In many if not most tournaments, the top players are usually scheduled to play their first round as late as possible in the week giving them more time to prepare. However, a few tournaments like Wimbledon begin the tournament with defending champion's match.

Djokovic and Baghdatis started their Australian Open 2009 4th round match after 11 pm and finished at 2:30 am. Then Djokovic had to play about 36 hours later against Roddick during the day in 100+ temps and retired from the heat and exhaustion.

Australian Open 2009 4th Round - Djokovic vs. Baghdatis
[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQzIzXPWK8M[/video]

Late night play is not uncommon in any tournament with lights. Roger Federer was required to play a match at the 2011 Sony Ericsson Open in Miami that started at 12:25 a.m., winning in 52 minutes over Belgian Oliver Rochus.

Federer said after his Sony Ericsson post-midnight win: "I was home at the hotel till 7:00, so I had all day to do something else than to wait around. I first thought or heard it was going to be canceled maybe because of rain, or my session anyway. They would move the day session back and the night session. So that was a bit just a waiting game to find out if I was going to play at all or not. You want to keep the mind focused. Supposed to play tonight. That's what happened, so I'm happy I played a good match."

Federer also noted in the same interview: "So I have played for two days in a row now. Was extremely hot yesterday, and then today really late. That's what tennis is all about. We don't know when we play and we don't have a set schedule, and so we have to be able to adapt and warm up several times for the match, because you never know what's going to happen beforehand."

Federer played late at night in Madrid 2012 almost every night and in Rome as well. In Rome 2012, he and Seppi started their match just after 10 pm.

In perhaps his most notable night play dominated tournament, Federer said after losing in the semifinals of the Rome Masters: "I've probably had night sessions for the last 10-11 nights between Madrid and Rome, it catches up with you, but at least you can sleep in. I'm not complaining but you need that dinner and time to relax and not have to go to bed right away. It's tough and it's always been that way but I love it."

Rome 2012 QF - Federer vs. Seppi - (Note clock at 0:45)
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itHe9-Ha2hU[/video]

I'm sure there have been many more examples over the years.

It's bad enough when the players act like prima donnas, but fans are even worse with their whining and drama. These top players are being paid thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions.
If they can't adapt and put up with a little adversity they should pack their bags and run home to mama.

Respectfully,
masterclass

 

[Iona16]

Every player that has played for some time has had their matches delayed for whatever reason.

Top players tend to play at night if there are lights to draw bigger television audiences and crowds.
Journeymen tend to play during the day to empty seats.

In many if not most tournaments, the top players are usually scheduled to play their first round as late as possible in the week giving them more time to prepare. However, a few tournaments like Wimbledon begin the tournament with defending champion's match.

Djokovic and Baghdatis started their Australian Open 2009 4th round match after 11 pm and finished at 2:30 am. Then Djokovic had to play about 36 hours later against Roddick during the day in 100+ temps and retired from the heat and exhaustion.

Australian Open 2009 4th Round - Djokovic vs. Baghdatis
[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQzIzXPWK8M[/video]

Late night play is not uncommon in any tournament with lights. Roger Federer was required to play a match at the 2011 Sony Ericsson Open in Miami that started at 12:25 a.m., winning in 52 minutes over Belgian Oliver Rochus.

Federer said after his Sony Ericsson post-midnight win: "I was home at the hotel till 7:00, so I had all day to do something else than to wait around. I first thought or heard it was going to be canceled maybe because of rain, or my session anyway. They would move the day session back and the night session. So that was a bit just a waiting game to find out if I was going to play at all or not. You want to keep the mind focused. Supposed to play tonight. That's what happened, so I'm happy I played a good match."

Federer also noted in the same interview: "So I have played for two days in a row now. Was extremely hot yesterday, and then today really late. That's what tennis is all about. We don't know when we play and we don't have a set schedule, and so we have to be able to adapt and warm up several times for the match, because you never know what's going to happen beforehand."

Federer played late at night in Madrid 2012 almost every night and in Rome as well. In Rome 2012, he and Seppi started their match just after 10 pm.

In perhaps his most notable night play dominated tournament, Federer said after losing in the semifinals of the Rome Masters: "I've probably had night sessions for the last 10-11 nights between Madrid and Rome, it catches up with you, but at least you can sleep in. I'm not complaining but you need that dinner and time to relax and not have to go to bed right away. It's tough and it's always been that way but I love it."

Rome 2012 QF - Federer vs. Seppi - (Note clock at 0:45)
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itHe9-Ha2hU[/video]

I'm sure there have been many more examples over the years.

It's bad enough when the players act like prima donnas, but fans are even worse with their whining and drama. These top players are being paid thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions.
If they can't adapt and put up with a little adversity they should pack their bags and run home to mama.

Respectfully,
masterclass

Is any poster disputing the fact that players can have their matches delayed for various reasons. I certainly wasn't.

Top players all feature in night sessions at times.

"In many if not most tournaments, the top players are usually scheduled to play their first round as late as possible in the week giving them more time to prepare. However, a few tournaments like Wimbledon begin the tournament with defending champion's match.

I'm sorry but that is not the case at all. The top seeds have a bye in masters events and so will obviously play after the 1st rounds are completed. In the slams they will play in the first few days.

I don't remember why the Djokovic v Baghdatis match at the 2009 Australian Open started so late. Nor do I know why Novak had to play again just 36 hours later. It does sound extremely unfair. I'm not suggesting that Djokovic hasn't had an unfair schedule at times.

Thanks for the Federer Miami masters story. It's unfortunate that Federer had to play so late but I'd assume Rafa and Novak fans etc could post similar stories. I certainly could with regard to Andy. Roger playing 10-11 nights between Madrid and Rome wasn't fair but there have been occasions when Andy has played every match in back to back masters events in the heat of the day.

I don't think for a second that it's easy to run any tournament. Trying to please international and domestic television partners, on-site fans and corporate sponsors can't be easy. However, it is a major sporting event and fair play and competitive integrity is also important.

Let me point out that this wasn't a few Murray fans getting their knickers in a twist. Plenty of journalists, ex-players and commentators (foreign and domestic) etc were dumfounded by Wednesday's order of play.

Leif Shiras pointed out that it would have made more sense to play Del Potro during the evening session and Murray during the day. That way, both could have been broadcast in prime time in their home continents, South America and Europe. If that had happened then Del Potro and his fans might not have been too happy with that and I wouldn't have blamed them.

I've read that the US Open format will change in 2015. It will mirror Wimbledon and the Australian Open - alternating days of play and a Sunday finish. It can't come quick enough.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread there have been circumstances when Andy, Rafa, Novak and Juan have all played their 1st match on the 3rd day. I'm not sure about about pre-2007 but since then Andy is the only one of those players that has ever played a night-session on day 3. A session that was also threatened by bad weather. His 9.55pm start was the the 3rd latest in US Open history. I don't think any male player should have to play his 1st match during the night session on day 3.

No, I wasn't happy with how Andy was treated and I don't consider what I said whining. I'm pleased that he was finally able to play and beat Llodra in straight sets.

I'm just looking forward to his 2nd match now.