Time to crown Novak the GOAT?

[Fiero425]

Novak has only won 8 titles on grass. Only Roger (19) and Sampras (10) have double-digit grass titles. Connors had 9, and thus was one short of the "10-10-10" club (actually, of the 10x4 club, as he also had 10+ carpet titles). So it is only Roger.

Novak will just have to settle for being the 1st player w/ 81 matches won at all 4 Majors! The beat goes on! That Fedal pedestal's slowly crumbling!

 

[El Dude]

Novak will just have to settle for being the 1st player w/ 81 matches won at all 4 Majors! The beat goes on! That Fedal pedestal's slowly crumbling!

Well, he could theoretically win Wimbledon at least once more and throw in London or Halle.

But he already is in first or tied in almost every major record category. I don't quite see him catching Connors for titles--he's 16 behind--but he'll pass Lendl and maybe Roger, so will finish 2 or 3. Of course no one will ever catch Laver's 200 overall!

 

[Fiero425]

Well, he could theoretically win Wimbledon at least once more and throw in London or Halle.

But he already is in first or tied in almost every major record category. I don't quite see him catching Connors for titles--he's 16 behind--but he'll pass Lendl and maybe Roger, so will finish 2 or 3. Of course no one will ever catch Laver's 200 overall!

We keep underestimating The Big 3 at every turn; esp. w/ Fedal as they "had their day" again in 2017 ! Novak was missing in action! They shared being #1 and probably thought they had secured their spots at the top! Djokovic returned even better in mid 2018, being mentally and physically stronger than the rest! I've been hoping he could have "his time" like Federer early on in 2003, but Fedal refuses to leave the stage! The diehard Fedal fans have a right to muse about them being the personification of tennis for 2 decades! They don't want to share even a little with Novak or his fans!

 

[Andy22]

11-7 and 10-4 shows how there’s only 1 goat and it’s Rafa. The only reason why he isn’t far ahead of Fedovic in slam titles is because of his countless injuries throughout his career. Thank you for reading and please do have a wonderful day!

True Nadal was born with Muller-weiss and also had Tendonitis in his 20s.

Goatdal still won 22 slams.

Also Nadal most dominant on single surface in history that's Goat stuff.

 

[El Dude]

We keep underestimating The Big 3 at every turn; esp. w/ Fedal as they "had their day" again in 2017 ! Novak was missing in action! They shared being #1 and probably thought they had secured their spots at the top! Djokovic returned even better in mid 2018, being mentally and physically stronger than the rest! I've been hoping he could have "his time" like Federer early on in 2003, but Fedal refuses to leave the stage! The diehard Fedal fans have a right to muse about them being the personification of tennis for 2 decades! They don't want to share even a little with Novak or his fans!

Novak has a couple things going for him, as far as padding his record. For one, it doesn't seem like he's fallen off from being able to channel his A game when needs to or, at the least, his B game is good enough to match the other top players on tour, except Rafa on clay.

Secondly, he doesn't have a GOAT-esque player coming up behind him. People who criticize Roger for falling off after 2009 (or 2012) ignore the fact that as he entered his 30s, he had two guys of similar talent in their primes. And as his 30s commenced, those two were always 5-6 years younger than him.

Thirdly, Rafa seems to be trending downward. Maybe he rises again for clay season, but it seems likely that he's starting to slip a bit further behind Novak. So if Rafa slips further, Novak will be the only true close-to-peak-level ATG...at least until one of the pups reaches their level.

Rafa and Novak have had to deal with each other in their primes - plus a still pretty good Roger and Andy - but part of what we're seeing as far as them still winning Slams in their mid-30s is that there aren't any true greats yet in their primes. Maybe Alcaraz and Rune and one or two others get there, but those two only turn 20 this year and are probably still a year or two away from their true primes, and several years from their absolute peaks. So Novak and Rafa have had this nice window - still lots of good to very good players, but nothing equivalent to what they were respective to Roger.

Novak (and maybe Rafa) might still have some time left as the guys to beat, but it is going to get harder and harder for them to fend off rising contenders, especially now that it seems like "Gen Millennium" (Alcaraz, Rune, Sinner, FAA, etc) might be better than Next Gen.

It isn't that different from the field when Sampras and Agassi were aging - the late 90s and early 00s saw no ATGs in their primes until Roger entered his prime in 2003 or so. Note that is also the last year that Agassi won a Slam -- turning 33 plus Roger's new level pretty much shut the door for him. Some guys like Kuerten, Hewitt and Safin were there, but we have similar players to that in Thiem a couple years ago, Medvedev, and Zverev.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Pete was the best there ever was on carpet. To me, the fact that he won 16 titles on carpet even as the surface was gradually getting eliminated throughout his career is more impressive than his 7 Wimbledons. Carpet was pretty much gone by the time Pete retired.

I've always thought that Pete's best slam was the US Open, not Wimbledon. Although Pete won less US Opens than Wimbledons, he was dominant for a far longer period at the US Open than at Wimbledon. Even when Pete lost his step at Wimbledon, he was still making the finals every year at the US Open. Outside of his 1992-2000 period of dominance, Pete had several early exits at Wimbledon. Pete never lost before the 4th round at the US Open (excluding his 1988 debut). Plus, Pete won 71 matches at the US Open, whereas he only won 63 at Wimbledon. The US Open during the Pete Sampras era played really fast, almost like a carpet.

 

[Fiero425]

Pete was the best there ever was on carpet. To me, the fact that he won 16 titles on carpet even as the surface was gradually getting eliminated throughout his career is more impressive than his 7 Wimbledons. Carpet was pretty much gone by the time Pete retired.

I've always thought that Pete's best slam was the US Open, not Wimbledon. Although Pete won less US Opens than Wimbledons, he was dominant for a far longer period at the US Open than at Wimbledon. Even when Pete lost his step at Wimbledon, he was still making the finals every year at the US Open. Outside of his 1992-2000 period of dominance, Pete had several early exits at Wimbledon. Pete never lost before the 4th round at the US Open (excluding his 1988 debut). Plus, Pete won 71 matches at the US Open, whereas he only won 63 at Wimbledon. The US Open during the Pete Sampras era played really fast, almost like a carpet.

Most people had McEnroe & Lendl as the best indoor carpet players! Sampras had his time I guess! At this point, it's absolutely trivial to rate them!

 

[shawnbm]

Novak has only won 8 titles on grass. Only Roger (19) and Sampras (10) have double-digit grass titles. Connors had 9, and thus was one short of the "10-10-10" club (actually, of the 10x4 club, as he also had 10+ carpet titles). So it is only Roger.

Either way, mighty impressive about Connors and Roger and Novak. I imagine McEnroe had more than 10 hard and carpet surface titles--doubt he hit 10 on grass like Sampras and Roger. Borg always went straight from Paris to London so he falls short on only grass, oddly enough.

 

[El Dude]

Some carpet stats:

Most titles:
Connors and McEnroe tied with 43
Lendl 33
Becker 26
Laver 24
Borg 23
Ashe 22

No one else has more than 15 (Nastase and Sampras).

GOAT Points (Carpet only):
McEnroe 212
Lendl 185
Becker 172
Connors 163
Laver 109
Borg 107
Sampras 96

Highest Elo (Carpet):
McEnroe 2690
Borg 2582
Lendl 2563
Becker 2542
Laver 2540
Connors 2530
...Sampras is a few spots below at 2407

Moral of the story: Mac was the greatest carpet player, and it isn't particularly close.

 

[Fiero425]

Some carpet stats:

Most titles:
Connors and McEnroe tied with 43
Lendl 33
Becker 26
Laver 24
Borg 23
Ashe 22

No one else has more than 15 (Nastase and Sampras).

GOAT Points (Carpet only):
McEnroe 212
Lendl 185
Becker 172
Connors 163
Laver 109
Borg 107
Sampras 96

Highest Elo (Carpet):
McEnroe 2690
Borg 2582
Lendl 2563
Becker 2542
Laver 2540
Connors 2530
...Sampras is a few spots below at 2407

Moral of the story: Mac was the greatest carpet player, and it isn't particularly close.

I thought so, but no one will care years down the line! i miss carpet! It wouldn't make much difference w/ Fedovic, but Rafa would be in trouble!

 

[Andy22]

I thought so, but no one will care years down the line! i miss carpet! It wouldn't make much difference w/ Fedovic, but Rafa would be in trouble!

Djokovic would be in trouble if Us open stayed on clay he already has less titles compared to Nadal or Federer.

 

[Fiero425]

Djokovic would be in trouble if US Open stayed on clay he already has less titles compared to Nadal or Federer.

And this means what? Woulda, shoulda, coulda! This is about as delusional a post as I can recall! WHY? Who cares? Am I missing something?

 

[shawnbm]

Carpet has a special flair--I liked it. Sampras, McEnroe, Connors, Becker were giants on that surface. I feel Roger and to a lesser extent Nole would have excelled on carpet--Isner likely too LOL. As for Nadal, he would have had great success, just not as much as his great rivals me thinks. I don't think his game translates to quick surfaces as well.

 

[Andy22]

Djokovic has two slams on his Favourite surface hardcourts while Nadal and Federer only have one.

This is important then we talk about Goat Debate.

Not to mention Borg and laver are more Talented players compared to Djokovic.

 

[shawnbm]

????????? ^^^^

 

[Fiero425]

Djokovic has two slams on his Favourite surface hardcourts while Nadal and Federer only have one.

This is important then we talk about Goat Debate.

Not to mention Borg and laver are more Talented players compared to Djokovic.

Safin had more talent than most players, but unfortunately his head wasn't on straight! He was a more powerful "Ilie Nastase" w/ plenty of touch & feel, but could pound the ball and run a guy from side to side that could rival Fedalovic; hence defeating Roger in his prime at 2005 AO SF IIRC! Talent means nothing in the end if the numbers don't corroberate that talent! Memories are fleeting and time eventually moves on w/ the latest and greatest! Laver & Borg have sustained their greatness longer than most legends with their names being invoked quite often! Eventually their major count will detract from their talent! It seems to be inevitable that Sampras will fall by the wayside w/ his short-lived record of 14 majors! His legacy was cut due to Roger overtaking him w/i 9 years! W/ the hoarding of major events by The Big 3, anything and everyone may not register as a blip on the radar if they can't even get to Pete's accomplishments, much less Fedalovic!

 

[Jelenafan]

Novak has a couple things going for him, as far as padding his record. For one, it doesn't seem like he's fallen off from being able to channel his A game when needs to or, at the least, his B game is good enough to match the other top players on tour, except Rafa on clay.

Secondly, he doesn't have a GOAT-esque player coming up behind him. People who criticize Roger for falling off after 2009 (or 2012) ignore the fact that as he entered his 30s, he had two guys of similar talent in their primes. And as his 30s commenced, those two were always 5-6 years younger than him.

Thirdly, Rafa seems to be trending downward. Maybe he rises again for clay season, but it seems likely that he's starting to slip a bit further behind Novak. So if Rafa slips further, Novak will be the only true close-to-peak-level ATG...at least until one of the pups reaches their level.

Rafa and Novak have had to deal with each other in their primes - plus a still pretty good Roger and Andy - but part of what we're seeing as far as them still winning Slams in their mid-30s is that there aren't any true greats yet in their primes. Maybe Alcaraz and Rune and one or two others get there, but those two only turn 20 this year and are probably still a year or two away from their true primes, and several years from their absolute peaks. So Novak and Rafa have had this nice window - still lots of good to very good players, but nothing equivalent to what they were respective to Roger.

Novak (and maybe Rafa) might still have some time left as the guys to beat, but it is going to get harder and harder for them to fend off rising contenders, especially now that it seems like "Gen Millennium" (Alcaraz, Rune, Sinner, FAA, etc) might be better than Next Gen.

It isn't that different from the field when Sampras and Agassi were aging - the late 90s and early 00s saw no ATGs in their primes until Roger entered his prime in 2003 or so. Note that is also the last year that Agassi won a Slam -- turning 33 plus Roger's new level pretty much shut the door for him. Some guys like Kuerten, Hewitt and Safin were there, but we have similar players to that in Thiem a couple years ago, Medvedev, and Zverev.

What are you talking about?? Rafa had Roger at the beginning of his career and both Novak & Federer during the teeth of his career and even now Novak as Rafa nears the end of his career. The fact is Nadal hasnt had an easy window of opportunity, certsinly not the window Roger had.

 

[Jelenafan]

What a silly Sponsor bitchfight…

Rafa Nadal dragged into ugly row amid uproar around Novak Djokovic

The Spaniard has found himself in the firing line as debate around Novak Djokovic rages on. More here.

au.sports.yahoo.com

 

[TheSicilian]

What a silly Sponsor bitchfight…

Rafa Nadal dragged into ugly row amid uproar around Novak Djokovic

The Spaniard has found himself in the firing line as debate around Novak Djokovic rages on. More here.

au.sports.yahoo.com

Novax comes across the most fake to me

 

[Jelenafan]

I thought so, but no one will care years down the line! i miss carpet! It wouldn't make much difference w/ Fedovic, but Rafa would be in trouble!

Pot.Kettle.Black.

And this means what? Woulda, shoulda, coulda! This is about as delusional a post as I can recall! WHY? Who cares? Am I missing something?