The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

[Kieran]

You can roll your eyes so considering Roger won only 1 slam that year in 2008 and I'll roll my eyes at Nadal's absolutely dreadful knee injury in 2009 that was so bad he came back and won 3 slams in 2010 and then his other woefully bad knee injury in 2012 that was so bad he came back and won 2 slams and 5 masters titles lol. Nadal fans, you can't beat them for sheer unintentional comedy value :laydownlaughing If you want to roll your eyes at least have a better defense 'cos it's pretty obvious who's had the more miraculous recoveries!

Not a sensible argument, buddy. First off, Roger "only won 1 slam" in 2008? Rafa hit his peak then, so how many slams did you expect? And Nole has shown himself to be the most efficient champ at Flinders Park that we've seen, so his win in 2008 can't be seen as being extraordinary.

Rafa skipped Wimbledon in 2009 - and didn't play well again until clay 2010. How's that for a speedy recovery. :cover

And he skipped time in 2012, and wasn't at his best again until clay the following year. Superfast. You get so inconsistent and hypocritical over this thing about fast recoveries, given how well federer did while suffering from (intermittent when it suits you :cover ) mono. You'd be wiser to give credit to others and not draw too much attention to your own glass house..

Right so he missed 1 tournament (Wimbledon) in 2009 due to an unbelievably bad (hmmm) knee injury and then missed the AO '13 'cos he had a sore tummy (this one was his own choice as he was physically fine by this stage except mummy wouldn't let him outside till his poor tummy was better). I'd say missing 2 slams which may he not even have won anyway (only 1 with a semi proper manly excuse btw) and then coming back and winning 5 slams makes for a pretty decent comeback personally And btw, Nadal reached the semis of the 2009 USO which considering how tragically bad his knee was after RG seems pretty good and actually quite miraculously fast for most people who don't worship Nadal. Plus, he's rarely ever been good in the 2nd half of the year so this slow comeback is all in your imagination. He reached the semis of the last slam of the year and performed not a whole lot differently than previous years in the latter half of the year.

You've also just shot yourself in the foot with your first paragraph (well done) by acknowledging that Roger won only 1 slam because Nadal had reached his peak and clearly you also know Federer's had now ended and yet just yesterday I was sifting through pages of garbage where you denied that Federer's prime ending and coinciding with Nadal's prime had no effect on their head to head going from 6-8 in Nadal's favour to just plain ugly 'cos the old guy wasn't getting any better with age.

Struggling to read, are we? Back to school for you, my friend. Yesterday I didn't deny that Federer's prime ending - etc - had anything to do with the H2H. I denied this crazy Fedfan theory that Rafa being five years younger has skewed the H2H. You should remember that because it only took you about 7 pages to get it. :cover

Rafa was ahead in the H2H DURING Wodger's peak. And that despite giving up a five year disadvantage. The 5 year age gap has more or less always been irrelevant when these two meet.

Secondly, Rafa never recovered quick from injuries, which you generously pointed out above by showing how he had to skip Oz in 2013. And just look at him struggling now, eh? And don't get started again on his struggles in 2009. That's 27 pages ago.

None of this changes the fact that you want it both ways. You claim Roger's great recovery in Oz is because mono is "intermittent" and yet you still keep mono in reserve as the excuse for why he lost there, with Federberg getting typically confused about the effects of the Tipsy match when Roger played Novak. :cover

Buddy, why don't you take the blinkers off and judge them all by the same standard, when you talk about recovery times? Seriously, I been watching tennis a lot longer, and your boy is very much exceptionally conditioned.

As for the Sunday Times revelations, they're fairly damning for athletics, but we all sorta knew that anyway...

 

[Front242]

Many people called it "the miracolous mono" :snicker

You can roll your eyes so considering Roger won only 1 slam that year in 2008 and I'll roll my eyes at Nadal's absolutely dreadful knee injury in 2009 that was so bad he came back and won 3 slams in 2010 and then his other woefully bad knee injury in 2012 that was so bad he came back and won 2 slams and 5 masters titles lol. Nadal fans, you can't beat them for sheer unintentional comedy value :laydownlaughing If you want to roll your eyes at least have a better defense 'cos it's pretty obvious who's had the more miraculous recoveries!

When you get mono the first thing the doctor tells you is that you have to rest, to avoid any kind of effort , otherwise you are going to feel worse and worse, to have more complications and the sickness can last forever. My brother was a swimmer, he got mono and he couldn't even to do an stroke, he felt the arms and legs so tired and heavy that he wasn't able to do anything and he didn't get the worse mono but he was off for three months
Then do you think that Nadal took just a long vacation when he was first out of the court for three months and later for seven months due to his very known knee injury and he was threaded by the doctors that if he didn't go through an intense knee treatment it would be the end of his career? come on, don't mix the bacon with the speed, two cases completely diferent :cover :nono

PRP treatment is not intense and has a huge success rate and is performance enhancing and you're completely overreacting with the talk of his knees potentially ending his career. It's no coincidence that 2 of Nadal's best years came after these treatments. Mono is not performance enhancing and in the case of Ancic and Soderling ended their careers abruptly. Yes, roll your eyes at that one too 'cos as I pointed out, they are completely different.

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/platelet-rich-plasma-doping-performance-enhancing/

 

[Front242]

Not a sensible argument, buddy. First off, Roger "only won 1 slam" in 2008? Rafa hit his peak then, so how many slams did you expect? And Nole has shown himself to be the most efficient champ at Flinders Park that we've seen, so his win in 2008 can't be seen as being extraordinary.

Rafa skipped Wimbledon in 2009 - and didn't play well again until clay 2010. How's that for a speedy recovery. :cover

And he skipped time in 2012, and wasn't at his best again until clay the following year. Superfast. You get so inconsistent and hypocritical over this thing about fast recoveries, given how well federer did while suffering from (intermittent when it suits you :cover ) mono. You'd be wiser to give credit to others and not draw too much attention to your own glass house..

Right so he missed 1 tournament (Wimbledon) in 2009 due to an unbelievably bad (hmmm) knee injury and then missed the AO '13 'cos he had a sore tummy (this one was his own choice as he was physically fine by this stage except mummy wouldn't let him outside till his poor tummy was better). I'd say missing 2 slams which may he not even have won anyway (only 1 with a semi proper manly excuse btw) and then coming back and winning 5 slams makes for a pretty decent comeback personally And btw, Nadal reached the semis of the 2009 USO which considering how tragically bad his knee was after RG seems pretty good and actually quite miraculously fast for most people who don't worship Nadal. Plus, he's rarely ever been good in the 2nd half of the year so this slow comeback is all in your imagination. He reached the semis of the last slam of the year and performed not a whole lot differently than previous years in the latter half of the year.

You've also just shot yourself in the foot with your first paragraph (well done) by acknowledging that Roger won only 1 slam because Nadal had reached his peak and clearly you also know Federer's had now ended and yet just yesterday I was sifting through pages of garbage where you denied that Federer's prime ending and coinciding with Nadal's prime had no effect on their head to head going from 6-8 in Nadal's favour to just plain ugly 'cos the old guy wasn't getting any better with age.

Struggling to read, are we? Back to school for you, my friend. Yesterday I didn't deny that Federer's prime ending - etc - had anything to do with the H2H. I denied this crazy Fedfan theory that Rafa being five years younger has skewed the H2H. You should remember that because it only took you about 7 pages to get it. :cover

Rafa was ahead in the H2H DURING Wodger's peak. And that despite giving up a five year disadvantage. The 5 year age gap has more or less always been irrelevant when these two meet.

Secondly, Rafa never recovered quick from injuries, which you generously pointed out above by showing how he had to skip Oz in 2013. And just look at him struggling now, eh? And don't get started again on his struggles in 2009. That's 27 pages ago.

None of this changes the fact that you want it both ways. You claim Roger's great recovery in Oz is because mono is "intermittent" and yet you still keep mono in reserve as the excuse for why he lost there, with Federberg getting typically confused about the effects of the Tipsy match when Roger played Novak. :cover

Buddy, why don't you take the blinkers off and judge them all by the same standard, when you talk about recovery times? Seriously, I been watching tennis a lot longer, and your boy is very much exceptionally conditioned.

As for the Sunday Times revelations, they're fairly damning for athletics, but we all sorta knew that anyway...

Yes and you go back to school too because most of the early wins were on clay where everyone knows Nadal was the better player on that surface. Wow, a whole 2 wins ahead during Federer's peak: 8-6. That's really not much and I'm older than guys in my gym too but guess what, they lift more weights than me in some exercises and less in others. What does that prove, you expect the older guy to do better in sports? That just isn't how real life works unless you're talking guys like Justin Gatlin on PEDs. The 5 year difference had a huge impact post 2007/2008 since one hit his prime and the other's ended. It's so damn easy to understand for most people who have any notion of logic. Given the number of times they played early on in their careers on Nadal's best surface of course he had a winning h2h. If they were the same age and peaking together naturally the h2h would not be the same since one wouldn't be declining while the other is in his peak and therefore getting better and with 5 years younger legs. Why do we always say Federer needs to win quickly at slams to stand a chance of winning since his peak ended? Because his recovery is not the same and hence why younger guys beat him more. It's not rocket science.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Many people called it "the miracolous mono" :snicker

You can roll your eyes so considering Roger won only 1 slam that year in 2008 and I'll roll my eyes at Nadal's absolutely dreadful knee injury in 2009 that was so bad he came back and won 3 slams in 2010 and then his other woefully bad knee injury in 2012 that was so bad he came back and won 2 slams and 5 masters titles lol. Nadal fans, you can't beat them for sheer unintentional comedy value :laydownlaughing If you want to roll your eyes at least have a better defense 'cos it's pretty obvious who's had the more miraculous recoveries!

When you get mono the first thing the doctor tells you is that you have to rest, to avoid any kind of effort , otherwise you are going to feel worse and worse, to have more complications and the sickness can last forever. My brother was a swimmer, he got mono and he couldn't even to do an stroke, he felt the arms and legs so tired and heavy that he wasn't able to do anything and he didn't get the worse mono but he was off for three months
Then do you think that Nadal took just a long vacation when he was first out of the court for three months and later for seven months due to his very known knee injury and he was threaded by the doctors that if he didn't go through an intense knee treatment it would be the end of his career? come on, don't mix the bacon with the speed, two cases completely diferent :cover :nono

This is what he (front).does , change the narrative to fit his version of his arguments. He will Never agree with you or anyone but Darth'views which somehow register and resonate with Front's logic. I am done with this topic because an acknowledgement is some sort of a defeat to him and the rest of the fans of their Beloved.IMO

 

[Kieran]

Apparently, it is rocket science, because as you wrote above, Rafa led the H2H 8-6 when Roger was in his peak. :cover

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the bit where that doesn't matter because they were all on clay, or something like that. You'd think the 5 year age gap would help Roger, in that case...

 

[Front242]

You can roll your eyes so considering Roger won only 1 slam that year in 2008 and I'll roll my eyes at Nadal's absolutely dreadful knee injury in 2009 that was so bad he came back and won 3 slams in 2010 and then his other woefully bad knee injury in 2012 that was so bad he came back and won 2 slams and 5 masters titles lol. Nadal fans, you can't beat them for sheer unintentional comedy value :laydownlaughing If you want to roll your eyes at least have a better defense 'cos it's pretty obvious who's had the more miraculous recoveries!

When you get mono the first thing the doctor tells you is that you have to rest, to avoid any kind of effort , otherwise you are going to feel worse and worse, to have more complications and the sickness can last forever. My brother was a swimmer, he got mono and he couldn't even to do an stroke, he felt the arms and legs so tired and heavy that he wasn't able to do anything and he didn't get the worse mono but he was off for three months
Then do you think that Nadal took just a long vacation when he was first out of the court for three months and later for seven months due to his very known knee injury and he was threaded by the doctors that if he didn't go through an intense knee treatment it would be the end of his career? come on, don't mix the bacon with the speed, two cases completely diferent :cover :nono

This is what does , change the narrative to fit his version of his arguments. He will Never agree with you or anyone but Darth'views which somehow register and resonate with Front's logic. I am done with this topic because an acknowledgement is some sort of a defeat to him and the rest of the fans of their Beloved.IMO

There is nothing a sane person could possibly agree on. One is a virus the ended Ancic's and Soderling's careers and the other was a knee injury miraculously cured with a performance enchancing treatment and I even posted a link with detailed information on PRP but of course deep down you know I'm right but won't even read it. You actually should read it though.

 

[Carol]

You can roll your eyes so considering Roger won only 1 slam that year in 2008 and I'll roll my eyes at Nadal's absolutely dreadful knee injury in 2009 that was so bad he came back and won 3 slams in 2010 and then his other woefully bad knee injury in 2012 that was so bad he came back and won 2 slams and 5 masters titles lol. Nadal fans, you can't beat them for sheer unintentional comedy value :laydownlaughing If you want to roll your eyes at least have a better defense 'cos it's pretty obvious who's had the more miraculous recoveries!

When you get mono the first thing the doctor tells you is that you have to rest, to avoid any kind of effort , otherwise you are going to feel worse and worse, to have more complications and the sickness can last forever. My brother was a swimmer, he got mono and he couldn't even to do an stroke, he felt the arms and legs so tired and heavy that he wasn't able to do anything and he didn't get the worse mono but he was off for three months

Then do you think that Nadal took just a long vacation when he was first out of the court for three months and later for seven months due to his very known knee injury and he was threaded by the doctors that if he didn't go through an intense knee treatment it would be the end of his career? come on, don't mix the bacon with the speed, two cases completely diferent :cover :nono

PRP treatment is not intense and has a huge success rate and is performance enhancing and you're completely overreacting with the talk of his knees potentially ending his career. It's no coincidence that
2 of Nadal's best years came after these treatments. Mono is not performance enhancing and in the case of Ancic and Soderling ended their careers abruptly. Yes, roll your eyes at that one too 'cos as I pointed out, they are completely different.

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/platelet-rich-plasma-doping-performance-enhancing/

Of course it was Nadal's best years after these treatments because he felt much better with his knee and he was still very young to get fast recovery

 

[Kieran]

The PRP is totally legal and WADA approved. Unfortunately you're the one who didn't read it...

 

[Front242]

Apparently, it is rocket science, because as you wrote above, Rafa led the H2H 8-6 when Roger was in his peak. :cover

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the bit where that doesn't matter because they were all on clay, or something like that. You'd think the 5 year age gap would help Roger, in that case...

Yeah, he won more on clay since he was better on that surface. Guys who specialize in dead lifting lift more than guys who don't. Back then when Nadal had his early wins against Roger they were mostly on clay where he and Toni had worked on tailor making his game to beat Federer so of course he had a winning head to head. It was still only a difference of 2 wins. Big deal.

 

[Front242]

The PRP is totally legal and WADA approved. Unfortunately you're the one who didn't read it...

I never said it wasn't. I said it was performance enhancing. So read it properly.

 

[Kieran]

The PRP is totally legal and WADA approved. Unfortunately you're the one who didn't read it...

I never said it wasn't. I said it was performance enhancing. So read it properly.

So is getting treatment for mono performance enhancing . :cover

 

[Kieran]

Apparently, it is rocket science, because as you wrote above, Rafa led the H2H 8-6 when Roger was in his peak. :cover

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the bit where that doesn't matter because they were all on clay, or something like that. You'd think the 5 year age gap would help Roger, in that case...

Yeah, he won more on clay since he was better on that surface. Guys who specialize in dead lifting lift more than guys who don't. Back then when Nadal had his early wins against Roger they were mostly on clay where he and Toni had worked on tailor making his game to beat Federer so of course he had a winning head to head. It was still only a difference of 2 wins. Big deal.

Exactly. Nothing to do with a 5 year age gap. Rafa has owned your boy since he started out. Get over it, buddy...

 

[Front242]

The PRP is totally legal and WADA approved. Unfortunately you're the one who didn't read it...

I never said it wasn't. I said it was performance enhancing. So read it properly.

So is getting treatment for mono performance enhancing . :cover

There is no treatment except rest and hoping it goes away. Ask Ancic or Soderling. I've noticed a trend that when you're caught with your pants down and links like that in front of you from a doctor you can't counter it with anything but a silly retort.

 

[Kieran]

I never said it wasn't. I said it was performance enhancing. So read it properly.

So is getting treatment for mono performance enhancing . :cover

There is no treatment except rest and hoping it goes away. Ask Ancic or Soderling. I've noticed a trend that when you're caught with your pants down and links like that in front of you from a doctor you can't counter it with anything but a silly retort.

Don't tell lies - again.

The treatments are legal. I know this because you posted the WADA regulations and we realised you hadn't read them yourself. You now agree that they're legal. Stop trying to spread muck...

 

[Carol]

Apparently, it is rocket science, because as you wrote above, Rafa led the H2H 8-6 when Roger was in his peak. :cover

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the bit where that doesn't matter because they were all on clay, or something like that. You'd think the 5 year age gap would help Roger, in that case...

Yeah, he won more on clay since he was better on that surface. Guys who specialize in dead lifting lift more than guys who don't. Back then when Nadal had his early wins against Roger they were mostly on clay where he and Toni had worked on tailor making his game to beat Federer so of course he had a winning head to head. It was still only a difference of 2 wins. Big deal.

What about beating Roge on grass (Wimbledon) and HC (AO)? :huh:

 

[Kieran]

Apparently, it is rocket science, because as you wrote above, Rafa led the H2H 8-6 when Roger was in his peak. :cover

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the bit where that doesn't matter because they were all on clay, or something like that. You'd think the 5 year age gap would help Roger, in that case...

Yeah, he won more on clay since he was better on that surface. Guys who specialize in dead lifting lift more than guys who don't. Back then when Nadal had his early wins against Roger they were mostly on clay where he and Toni had worked on tailor making his game to beat Federer so of course he had a winning head to head. It was still only a difference of 2 wins. Big deal.

What about beating Roge on grass (Wimbledon) and HC (AO)? :huh:

Come on Carol, try keep up! They were all when Roger was 5 years older and dying from mono :laydownlaughing

 

[Front242]

So is getting treatment for mono performance enhancing . :cover

There is no treatment except rest and hoping it goes away. Ask Ancic or Soderling. I've noticed a trend that when you're caught with your pants down and links like that in front of you from a doctor you can't counter it with anything but a silly retort.

Don't tell lies - again.

The treatments are legal. I know this because you posted the WADA regulations and we realised you hadn't read them yourself. You now agree that they're legal. Stop trying to spread muck...

You are so stubborn and naive. There are no lies here except you lying to yourself but not reading it's performance enhancing. I know it's legal and I also know it's performance enhancing. Seeing as you are too scared and blind to read it I'll post the whole damn article here so it's staring you and other Nadal fans in the face. This link is from a doctor. If people who aren't native speakers can't fully understand it, use google translate 'cos it's enlightening stuff.

"Could platelet-rich plasma be used for doping?
January 23, 2013 • Analysis
Email, RSS Follow

I’ve written many times about platelet-rich plasma and talked about it in detail on my show. I have discussed what the treatment is, the theory behind why it was thought to speed the healing process, and the data about its effectiveness.

Drawing blood
Platelet-rich plasma involves drawing blood from the athlete, isolating the plasma with its growth-factor containing platelets, and reinjecting it into the injured area.
Platelet-rich plasma has received tremendous attention from athletes and the media for its theoretical benefits to speed the healing of injured tendons, ligaments, and muscle. While scientific evidence showing a definitive benefit has been lacking, many elite athletes undergo the procedure to try to return to sports faster.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has been concerned that PRP has an ergogenic effect. While PRP is currently allowed, concern that it could increase levels of growth factors that are currently banned still exists.

Also read:
Ask Dr. Geier – Platelet-Rich Plasma
Is platelet-rich plasma a true scientific breakthrough or just hype?

A study in the January 2013 issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine by Amy S. Wasterlain et al looks at the effects of PRP injections and if they increase levels of growth factors within the body. They measured levels of six growth factors thought to be performance enhancing by WADA in 25 athletes receiving PRP injections.

The authors found that serum levels of three or ergogenic growth factors – IGF-1, VEGF and bFGF – increased significantly after PRP injections. They also found that the levels of these growth factors rose because the PRP started a biological process that led to the athletes’ bodies producing more of the growth factors, not from the growth factors within the injected PRP alone.

These findings lead to some important questions:

Can a test be developed that can accurately determine if growth factors are elevated due to PRP injections instead of due to separate use (for performance-enhancing reasons)?

Do these increases in growth factors, especially the increases from PRP injections, actually help improve performance?

Should WADA revisit its prior ban on platelet-rich plasma?

Further research into these questions, and further research into whether or not platelet-rich plasma is effective for healing of sports injuries, is needed in the coming years.

Do you think that platelet-rich plasma has the potential to be misused for performance-enhancing reasons? How should WADA and sports organizations treat athletes who want to use it to treat injuries? Share your thoughts below!"

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/platelet-rich-plasma-doping-performance-enhancing/

^ And do read the thoughts below the article too. There are some good ones.

 

[Kieran]

Brother, do yourself a favour: pull up your trousers and step away from the keyboard... :cover

 

[Front242]

Apparently, it is rocket science, because as you wrote above, Rafa led the H2H 8-6 when Roger was in his peak. :cover

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed the bit where that doesn't matter because they were all on clay, or something like that. You'd think the 5 year age gap would help Roger, in that case...

Yeah, he won more on clay since he was better on that surface. Guys who specialize in dead lifting lift more than guys who don't. Back then when Nadal had his early wins against Roger they were mostly on clay where he and Toni had worked on tailor making his game to beat Federer so of course he had a winning head to head. It was still only a difference of 2 wins. Big deal.

What about beating Roge on grass (Wimbledon) and HC (AO)? :huh:

Yeah, what about them? One's peak/prime ended and the other's began. It's not hard to follow.

 

[Carol]

Brother, do yourself a favour: pull up your trousers and step away from the keyboard... :cover

:laydownlaughing