THE RAPE OF RUSSIA BY THE USA/CIA and ''west" and why they HATE PUTIN and SOVEREIGN RUSSIA

[teddytennisfan]

AND WHERE -- O WHERE does that GLOBALLY MURDEROUS ''culture" come from?

THAT'S RIGHT -- IT'S the wonderful ''leaders of the free world" - USA AND UK AND WESTERN EUROPE =--

u know -- peoples and ''cultures" from that SMALL PENINSULA with some small island nation with their POOR resources --

who created a 'system" of political/'economic PLUNDER and MURDER across the world?

some ''civilization" -- huh? nothing really but nicely dressed BRIGANDS , PIRATES across the high seas and continents and plain good old murderers and thieves. when you STRIP it all of its pretensions.

 

[teddytennisfan]

Honestly as somebody who belongs to a nation that was demonized and attacked by the USA for no GOOD reason, I am always compelled to seek more information and look at more sources when they start their attack on somebody else. Although I know where teddy is coming from, reading and hearing how bad Russians are, what they are accused of, it can get a bit tiring and frustrating for us that know it is not exactly so.

as for a REAL
\
grey area|

HERE IS AN EXAMPL;E OF ONE whose repercussions are actually TODAY in the ASIAN THEATRE and which will show a ''black and white" truth:

-================

CHINA was attacked and invaded by JAPAN THE FASCIST state..(setting aside WHAT PUSHED japan to become such a state -- the desperation as a result of the destruction of ITS economy BY the americans and british in their economic and naval blockade PRIOR to world war 2) -

and the notorious 'RAPE OF NANKING" which was then chian's capital -- resulted in such horrors that rivalled that of NAZI germany's own -- with nothing but rape, rape, torture, on a daily basis -- all documented -- an a resulting death rate GREATER than the combined deaths in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombing by the USA (unnecessary even to justify for war - just like the BRITISH carpet bombing of Dresden and Munich were unnecessary EXCEPT that THESE TWO ''allies" and ''good guys" wanted to show WHO IS BOSS) ...

IN THAT RAPE OF NANKING -- a few hundred chinese survived and passed through because the japanese fascist army would not BOMB their small ''non-combatant" area designated for them --

in the ESTATE of a rich GERMAN NAZI PARTY member - named Wolfgan Rabe...

who put a huge NAZI SWASTIKA on his roof to prevent japanese planes from bombing it - or organized a civilian posse to stop japanese soldiers outside from carrying on more rapes and massacres - at leats as much as was possioble by showing his NAZI symbol...

since HITLER -- upon this man's telegram request - ''leaned" on the japanese military - as aN ally -- not TO touch these people so long as they were inside THAT estate=-- namely - servants , workers, friends ordinary people -- the general citizenry who were TOO POOR who could not afford to leave the city to escape the japanese...

the man kept a very careful diary of his witness -- and simply - although he was himself a VERY devoted NAZI PARTY member -- and admired hitler for raising germany's economy but likely didn't not know much about the propaganda from german papers --

and somehow managed to survive the war - with thousands of chinese citizens saved because of HIS efforts.

he had to send his small boy and wife to 'safety" somewhere else in china...after they had lived their lives there for 30 years...and this was his recompense - in his own words"

"for the kindness the chinese people have given me".

NOW -- THAT IS ''grey area". on subjects that BIND things -- not simply ''comparing" what a russia did somewhere to what the WEST" DID somewhere ELSE -- as opposed to what the WEST DID TO RUSSIA

AS MY ORIGINAL POSTING PUT_ THE RAPE OF RUSSIA BY THE WEST.

it is not a 'grey area" in which russia ''raped the west back" - such as invade britain or america or caused ruin to THEIR economies the way THEY have caused ruin TO russia and USSR -- not least by means of using HITLER with their initial support in his rise t- RUIN russia.

and today -- WHO ARE THE SUPPORTERS OF THE JAPANESE WORLD WAR 2 AGGRESSORS agastin MAINLAND ASIA?

why of course theUK AND USA -- again.............

outsiders who play upon the differences or conflicts in regions to which THEY DO NOT BELONG -- in order to play their ''grey areas" business of trading in human flesh.

just like they do in syria and the middle east, africa and everywhere else.

shall i go on?.........................

 

[teddytennisfan]

oh -- and that NAZI WOLFGAN RABE...

is a highoy revered figure with a statue in his memory for what he had done for the chinese people in NANJING -- with his estate preserved carefully as a museum -- right through the entire ''communist" BAD, BAD, BAD, china era.

as the lady chinese curator and historian of this german NAZI puts it today:

"HIS LIFE for 30 years WAS PROSPEROUS and very happy in china -- according to his own dairies and he had come to love being among chinese until the japanese came and ruined everyhone's life -- and HIS life became very unhappy -- because of his sacrifice for our own people -- when he could have gone elsewhere for safety -- to america, to anywhere as a rich industrialist....but for this -- he will always be remembered as a revered person for our people -- for he did something that was different than what his own NAZI country did to others in europe - while using his genuine beliefs in the power of his national socialist germany's symbol to do something for the people in china that had welcomed him and treated him as one of us".

but -- hey -- the world is finding out MORE who are the REAL BAD GUYS - aren't we? they're there -- talking about ''human rights' - freedom and democracy whil/e CODDLING TERRORISTS ..............in places and towards peoples THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS lecturing TO about how to behave...

there's THERESA MAY AND BRITISH foreign ministery talking about ''sending an aircraft carrier to the pacific to confrront chinese aggressin".

BEHIND japan OF COURSE - just like they DID behind the HITLER WAR MACHINE against russia and the slavs -- in keeping with BRITISH JOHN MILTON'S centuries-old SUPERIORITY complext attitude towards the ''barbaric, savage, unlettered russian and slavs".


now THAT is ''BLACK AND WHITE' business -- no grey area there...


these are the SAME folks who talk smut about FILIPINO president' DUTERTE'S ''brutal regime and drug war" -- and 'human rights crimes" -- who think NOTHING of the conditions that the country now MUST contend with -- a very , very REAL destruction of its social fabric and FUTURE of its next generation -- JUST LIKE REAL WARS bring out - when countries MUST defend themselves from destruction - whether internal or externally induced. which in THIS case is CLEARLY an IMPORT from certain elements -- and WE KNOW WHO ARE THE BIGGEST MASTERS OF DRUG ADDICTION AS A TOOL of conquest on countries -- heck THEY even have mastery of the PATENT industry for their LEGAL ''drug pushing " pharmaceuticals!! they try to PUSH through TPP, TIPP, NAFTA, CETA...etc and their so-called "rules of participation" in global affairs!

one of them just keeps aN ARMY in afghanistan to PROTECT its 93 percent of the world's HEROIN AND OPIUM and drugs plantations under the guise of ''stabilizing" afghanistan!!

and NO WONDER that DUTERTE -- when meeting PUTIN in LIMA,PERU in a one on one sit-down meeting -- complained to PUTIN:

"some of these western countries..............they like to instigate their wars across the world -- but are afraid to fight it THEMSELVES -- so they USE others to do it for them".


now -- THAT is what i call -- SAYING IT like it IS! in BLACK AND WHITE.

NOW -- where is RUSSIA ''hiding" those CIA, MI-5 , MOSSAD, etc...

''instructors" hiding in aleppo - giving instructions to their terrorists of the WEST? kerry must have succeeded in BEGGING LAVROV to just keep it ''under wraps" and not EXPOSE the west - lol!!

 

[britbox]

IT SHOULD BE CLEAR BY NOW TO HONEST PEOPLE...

ALL -- ALL THE ''NEWS" ABOUT ''bad russian economy, starvation, empty shelves...etc"

about russia and the USSR -- WERE CREATED BY THE WESTERN RAPISTS AND THE TRAITORS INSIDE RUSSIA -- DURING THE 1990'S AND PLANNED SINCE THE LATE 1980'S when they saw their 'chance' to insert themselves...

NOT a result of RUSSIA AND THE USSR ''failures".

this is the SAME AS CAN BE SEEN ACROSS THE ENTIRE ''former soviet'' space -- including countries like Yugoslavia, today's Serbia, Romania, ukraine, -- and the TEETERING POLAND right now...and the baltics...under the 'tutelage" of ''western privatization" ...

anyone that says otherwise is either UNEDUCATED, IGNORANT or just plain stupid .

but never mind that -- ITALY that has been reeling under THE SAME ''tutelage" evne as ONE of the pillars of the western ''economic space" -- not only has been reeling under the effects of american induced ''sanctions'' against russia -- by LOSING BILLIONS in lost trade and business --

but is now practically BEGGING FOR RUSSIA to ACCEPT ITALY AS A MEMBER OF THE THRIVING EURASIAN ECONOMIC UNION created by Russia , Belarus and Kazakhstan...where

NO ''WESTERN TUTELAGE" WILL EVER AGAIN BE PERMITTED. as it also INTEGRATES EURASIA WITH THE RUSSIA/CHINA led SHANGHAI COOPERATION COUNCIL to which ASEAN NATIONS are requesting membership . roflmao.
AND THAT is a GOOD THING!!

Geopolitics is an ugly game but you're only looking at recent history through one eye. You really think Italy are begging to join the Eurasian Economic Union?

The USSR failed because communism failed while the USSR were playing a capitalist arms race game with the west. A west that was backed by a strong petro-dollar. Yeltsin and his cronies were the biggest rapists of Russia... something that has taken Putin a long time to go some way to correcting.

 

[britbox]

However, I agree that the west made huge mistakes with Russia during that period and the last decade particularly. A strong Russia and a strong China provide an important global counterbalance.

 

[mrzz]

...just lost a long post... damn´d. No time retype it all now, sorry. Keep as a silent follower of thread for now...

 

[britbox]

...just lost a long post... damn´d. No time retype it all now, sorry. Keep as a silent follower of thread for now...

That's a pity because I like the thought you put into these... maybe if you could find the time to revisit and stick in Notepad first as you're penning them for safety.

 

[mrzz]

^It was my fault... I had 43764357864 tabs open, and 34234 different applications running, going back and forth...

The post was addressed to Teddytennisfan. I was acknowledging that I like his passion, even if I might not agree with everything he says/posts.

I started telling a bit of what we experience here in Brazil, trying to relate to the things he reports about his country (which for sure are far worst from what we had here, at least in the last two centuries).

But the point was: On one of the paste/posts of his, the first with Vltcheck material on this page, explains his attitude: there is no time for the "detailed truth". And, people have to pick a side. He clearly did. This explains the aggressiveness towards posters like Broken or sometimes even yourself (by the way, Broken´s posts on Syria are very fair and balanced, IMO).

I was trying to convince him that in places such as this he could try a bit more moderate approach. I mentioned you explicitly, as you maintain this site, and give him space to speak freely. This attitude, in my opinion, should be worth to him more than words of approval.

Finally, I pointed out that I find Vltcheck idea of "going personal", strategically speaking, a good one. But that this would apply to people in position of power, or with their hands dirty. It is not the case of posters here.

Within the post I tried to reason that are more ways to "fight the system". I even ended with a nice construction: That our hands were surely not dirty, even if one day could wake up and realize that they were as clean as Poncius Pilate's...

 

[teddytennisfan]

Geopolitics is an ugly game but you're only looking at recent history through one eye. You really think Italy are begging to join the Eurasian Economic Union?

The USSR failed because communism failed while the USSR were playing a capitalist arms race game with the west. A west that was backed by a strong petro-dollar. Yeltsin and his cronies were the biggest rapists of Russia... something that has taken Putin a long time to go some way to correcting.

Geopolitics is an ugly game but you're only looking at recent history through one eye. You really think Italy are begging to join the Eurasian Economic Union?

The USSR failed because communism failed while the USSR were playing a capitalist arms race game with the west. A west that was backed by a strong petro-dollar. Yeltsin and his cronies were the biggest rapists of Russia... something that has taken Putin a long time to go some way to correcting.

1) i have 'looked" at - at the very least -- and discussed here geopolitics and BEYOND far more than any of you HAVE. i wouldn't be the one posting the way i have unless th twere so. it is I that has talked about john milton of centuries ago, mackinder, pilsudski, brzezinski, ablright, kissinger , chavez, the middle east , the faisal bin saud down to mohammad bin salman (figure THAT one out) and yemen and china and opium wars, naval/economic blockade by the americans and british of japan along with british/american blockade of pre-world war germany of bsmarck, south koreas, petro-dollar hegemony, the oligarchs of yeltsin as turned agents of the CIA...ETC. etc. otherwise...

2) the USSR 'FAILED" NOT because of the 'socialist system' but out of its own corrupted leaders over whom the americans and westerners saw their chance to plunder and pillage what was left once gorbachev allowed the so-called ''perstroika".

3) you show you hardly ever undrstnad what was said and so go right back to the knee jerk reaction of 'failure of ussr due to its own fault" as if plunder and pillage has nothing to do with it.

4) there IS A DIFFERENCE between a failed state (for purpose of discussion describing the 1990's russia ONLY) - and one that was LED to it by corrupted people (yeltsin and company) who shoul dhave known BETTER than to give their country OVER to the americans and foreigners like YOUR british petroleum

in the same way they pillaged IRAN .

SO that the likes of YOU can pretend the ''failure" was ''due to their system" and NOT because of RAPE by foreigners.

6)mentioning that -- isn\'t it funny that the PETRO-DOLLAR of the USA -- attaching itself to the SAUDI'S in collusions to create an artificially ''powerfuL' currency -- was done to SAVE THE USA from ITS own FAILED economy by 1970 -- with its already TURNED status from 'world's biggest lender to world's biggest debtor"

in order to POSTPONE its collapse HAD IT HAD TO BE FORCED TO ACTUALLY PAY its debts incurred from its vietnam war and other adventures ?

and yet again -- be ''saved" since the 1990s and particularly in 2008 by NEW schemes such as ''quantitative easing" and minus ZERO interest rates to create YET another BUBBLE...and as denouement tightens around it -- now resorts to - yes - you got it -- openly deploying TERRORISTS to distract attention from its HOLLOWING OUT economy?

AND IN THE process DESTROY and destabilize the EUROPEAN states and economies with ITS CHAOS-inducing migrants from ITS terrorist wars?

 

[britbox]

^It was my fault... I had 43764357864 tabs open, and 34234 different applications running, going back and forth...

The post was addressed to Teddytennisfan. I was acknowledging that I like his passion, even if I might not agree with everything he says/posts.

I started telling a bit of what we experience here in Brazil, trying to relate to the things he reports about his country (which for sure are far worst from what we had here, at least in the last two centuries).

But the point was: On one of the paste/posts of his, the first with Vltcheck material on this page, explains his attitude: there is no time for the "detailed truth". And, people have to pick a side. He clearly did. This explains the aggressiveness towards posters like Broken or sometimes even yourself (by the way, Broken´s posts on Syria are very fair and balanced, IMO).

I was trying to convince him that in places such as this he could try a bit more moderate approach. I mentioned you explicitly, as you maintain this site, and give him space to speak freely. This attitude, in my opinion, should be worth to him more than words of approval.

Finally, I pointed out that I find Vltcheck idea of "going personal", strategically speaking, a good one. But that this would apply to people in position of power, or with their hands dirty. It is not the case of posters here.

Within the post I tried to reason that are more ways to "fight the system". I even ended with a nice construction: That our hands were surely not dirty, even if one day could wake up and realize that they were as clean as Poncius Pilate's...

Thanks for sharing, shame the original got lost. I'm cool with teddy.... he doesn't need to moderate himself on my account and to be honest, I hope he never feels the need to. Like yourself, I like reading different perspectives even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

 

[britbox]

1) i have 'looked" at - at the very least -- and discussed here geopolitics and BEYOND far more than any of you HAVE. i wouldn't be the one posting the way i have unless th twere so. it is I that has talked about john milton of centuries ago, mackinder, pilsudski, brzezinski, ablright, kissinger , chavez, the middle east , the faisal bin saud down to mohammad bin salman (figure THAT one out) and yemen and china and opium wars, naval/economic blockade by the americans and british of japan along with british/american blockade of pre-world war germany of bsmarck, south koreas, petro-dollar hegemony, the oligarchs of yeltsin as turned agents of the CIA...ETC. etc. otherwise...

2) the USSR 'FAILED" NOT because of the 'socialist system' but out of its own corrupted leaders over whom the americans and westerners saw their chance to plunder and pillage what was left once gorbachev allowed the so-called ''perstroika".

3) you show you hardly ever undrstnad what was said and so go right back to the knee jerk reaction of 'failure of ussr due to its own fault" as if plunder and pillage has nothing to do with it.

4) there IS A DIFFERENCE between a failed state (for purpose of discussion describing the 1990's russia ONLY) - and one that was LED to it by corrupted people (yeltsin and company) who shoul dhave known BETTER than to give their country OVER to the americans and foreigners like YOUR british petroleum

in the same way they pillaged IRAN .

SO that the likes of YOU can pretend the ''failure" was ''due to their system" and NOT because of RAPE by foreigners.

6)mentioning that -- isn\'t it funny that the PETRO-DOLLAR of the USA -- attaching itself to the SAUDI'S in collusions to create an artificially ''powerfuL' currency -- was done to SAVE THE USA from ITS own FAILED economy by 1970 -- with its already TURNED status from 'world's biggest lender to world's biggest debtor"

in order to POSTPONE its collapse HAD IT HAD TO BE FORCED TO ACTUALLY PAY its debts incurred from its vietnam war and other adventures ?

and yet again -- be ''saved" since the 1990s and particularly in 2008 by NEW schemes such as ''quantitative easing" and minus ZERO interest rates to create YET another BUBBLE...and as denouement tightens around it -- now resorts to - yes - you got it -- openly deploying TERRORISTS to distract attention from its HOLLOWING OUT economy?

AND IN THE process DESTROY and destabilize the EUROPEAN states and economies with ITS CHAOS-inducing migrants from ITS terrorist wars?

1) I wouldn't base anyone's knowledge on a subject based on their volume of posts.

2) So it was the USSR's corrupted leaders at fault...

3) yet in Point 3... it wasn't... so who was running the USSR at the time? Kissinger?

4) You confirm it was corrupt Russians... yet blame BP?

5) Not sure where that went, but let's move onto 6)

6) Agreed.

1 out of 6 (or 5 even) isn't bad for some common ground to begin with.

 

[teddytennisfan]

...just lost a long post... damn´d. No time retype it all now, sorry. Keep as a silent follower of thread for now...

like Britbox said -- try notebooking it. i don/t habitually do that myself as what do i really care if i lost it -- i'll go right back and type a different version- same main points anyway...if i feel like it.

but it does work if you remind yourself to do it that way.

anyway -- lik eanyone here -- yes -- i am vehement with my points -- not least because some responses or ''points made" are so common and so repeated over the years -- i am simply AMAZED they keep floating around that it gets impatience out of me to have to repeat things to YET more people. before it all turns around and whether they admit it or not -- they'd BE proven wrong anyway. YEARS later.

lol.

but as to YOUR points -- you should go ahead and post your own thoughts - that's what posting is about isn't it?

 

[teddytennisfan]

Thanks for sharing, shame the original got lost. I'm cool with teddy.... he doesn't need to moderate himself on my account and to be honest, I hope he never feels the need to. Like yourself, I like reading different perspectives even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

thanks -- britbox knows me - longer than anyone here - and that i may ''sound" like i'm addressing ''insulting" remarks to a poster - such as BRITBOX - in the context of a discussion -- but that's within a common understanding we know what we're about -- talking about a TOPIC that MIGHT or might noe touch on us even personally -- but so what?

topics go THERE...and that's part of the 'test' of ourselves how we can bear how far we will 'push" an examination of a subject matter.

ther'es no point in exploring matters unless one were prepared to find out wha'ts under the blanket. many long years now of all this ''talk" on the 'global internet" supposedly to explain our thoughts, assumptions, views, evolving understanding etc....of history, events and all that -- shows me (at least my point of view)

that politeness for its own sake means absolutely NOTHING if it is only a cause to avoid talking about what needs to be talked about IF a person wants to even discuss things as directly and honestly and as perceptively as is possible.

obama is a BOMBER AND A KILLER AND WAR CRIMINAL - ther'es no going around THAT .
so is BUSH who ought to be in jail now along with the rest of them filthy filthy evil people who USE continents and populations with their dreams of ''world domination" -- that THEY accuse those they TARGET of.

and THAT'S what i am interested in -- NOT being ''nice" even if will try my best on that. but THAT is not what motivates me to engage in discussions about.

there is NO TIME in this world -- where we have to do our stuff in our own little lives -- to be 'nice' just for its own sake when we are talking about things that are NOT nice. like 100,000 people held hostage by TERRORISTS sent by the USA and its minions while TURNING ON ITS HEAD what they are doing as something about ''saving the poor suffering syrians from brutal ASSAD" ...

while engaging in their LYING AND FAKERY -- to paint THEMSELVES AND THEIR TERRORISTS as ''humanitarian fighters"

i mean -- WHERE on earth does that happen? UNLESS THE WAR CRIMINAL TERROR STATES OF USA, UK, FRANCE, SAUDI ARABIA , QATAR, WANNA-BE-0SULTAN ERDOGAN and company are the ones we are talking about - in YET another GANG-RAPE CUM TERROR orgy they are committing

and NOT by russia, or syria or iran or china or others TRYING their darndest -- horrific as the results have to be -- to DEFEND the world ITSELF from the likes of these ''western" imperialists who just can't stop from their PILLAGE, RAPE AND PLUNDER as if the world is just a PLAYTHING for them...

THERE IS no time for being nice when talking about DEMONS from hell.

 

[teddytennisfan]

do any of you folks know -- as anohter example of these DEMONS in their rich mansions

that the LYING WASHINGTON POST -- that is the one that calls for banning RT, SPUTNIK "everythying russian and others" that DON'T BOW AND TAKE STENOGRAPHY like the washington post , nyc - LYING bastards that sold the world the iraq war NON-extistent WMD'S -- etc...

IS owned BY ONE JEFF BEZOS of amazon?

WHO JUST HAPPENS TO BE one of those ''rullers of the world" like FACEBOOK'S ZUKERBERG --

WHO therefore OWNS ''moving factory'' sites IN SCOTLAND where WORKERS paid at lowest possible wages are SHIVERING IN THE COLD RIGHT NOW when ''housed' in TENTS outside in FREEZING WINTER?

how dare he? how dare amazon?
but why woudlo THAT appear in WASHINGTON POST? it only appears in the likes of RUSSIA TODAY! so it must be PUTIN'S FAULT!!


yeah -- tha't sright -- that's your 'successful capitalist" for ya!

IF THE GREAT SCOT ADAM SMITH were alive today --HE'/D BE OUT THERE WITH the miserable scottish workers who are forced to work and live like THAT - saying "this is NOT what i talked about as free market..it NEVER was -- WHAT I TALKED ABOUT IS SOCIALIST free market the REAL one!! FREE MARKET FROM OLIGARCHS JUST LIKE THE PARASITES LIKE JEFF BEZOS and their kind ". !!!

LOL

roflmao!!

 

[teddytennisfan]

1) I wouldn't base anyone's knowledge on a subject based on their volume of posts.

2) So it was the USSR's corrupted leaders at fault...

3) yet in Point 3... it wasn't... so who was running the USSR at the time? Kissinger?

4) You confirm it was corrupt Russians... yet blame BP?

5) Not sure where that went, but let's move onto 6)

6) Agreed.

1 out of 6 (or 5 even) isn't bad for some common ground to begin with.

OF COURSE I BLAME BP -=- THEY KNEW there were corruptible officials and THAT is the point here.

to DESTROY A COUNTRY BY PILLAGINGits resources by means of colluding with officials that were corruptible - and which were corrupted BY APPROACHES from the foreigners as to ''how to do it"

IS what i am talking about. it IS what is called PLUNDERING AND RAPING A COUNTRY .

no country with a stable system on its own that is fuinctioning independently can be plundered WITHOUT insider agents or corrupted people.

and THAT is what PUTIN recently revealed that it has NOT stopped -- AS ATTEMPTS BY THE WEST --

when he revealed to ministers and reporters "do you know i have recently had complaints from our foreign partners (guess which ones keep going to russia for ''talks"? lol) --

that they are unhappy about what they say is our meddling and influencing in their affairs? and i told them 'i do you know i have been reading YOUR instructions to certain of our people exactly on what to do to sabotage our economy and affairs? they came to me to show the original documents you have been sending -- and you are accusing us of meddling in your affairs?"

 

[mrzz]

Thanks for sharing, shame the original got lost. I'm cool with teddy.... he doesn't need to moderate himself on my account and to be honest, I hope he never feels the need to. Like yourself, I like reading different perspectives even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

thanks -- britbox knows me - longer than anyone here - and that i may ''sound" like i'm addressing ''insulting" remarks to a poster - such as BRITBOX - in the context of a discussion -- but that's within a common understanding we know what we're about -- talking about a TOPIC that MIGHT or might noe touch on us even personally -- but so what?

So what you guys are saying that I basically need to grow some thick skin? Interesting... but ultimately you are right. Thanks!

2) the USSR 'FAILED" NOT because of the 'socialist system' but out of its own corrupted leaders over whom the americans and westerners saw their chance to plunder and pillage what was left once gorbachev allowed the so-called ''perstroika".

While I agree with you that you cannot blame the "socialist system", it is also reductive to blame it all on a few big bad capitalists. There is a whole century of history to look here. But, even if I would agree with that (which I won´t), this "chance" the capitalists had to plunder, that is, the crack in the armour of the "system", is clearly produced by the system itself. This system has a lot of thing to explain and you know it.

See that the discussion diverted from people to systems, and that is the part I do not like. You point the finger at the few people who made the socialist system crack, while you look at the west, and even if recognizing the blame of certain individuals, you often point your finger to the "system", that you either call capitalism, imperialism or whatever.

Honestly, for me it is all the same sh!t, you have two opposing systems, both with virtues and defects, that in either case have shown not to work (one collapsed and the other induces hundreds of millions to live in hellish conditions), not because of their own virtues or defects, but because of the people who run it. I fully agree with Vltcheck on this, it is personal, but it is personal on both sides. Think for a moment what would happen if all the CEO´s, Trumps, Obamas and the like of the world grew a conscience at the same time... things could get infinitely better for large populations in no time. People are to blame, always.

When you list the world leaders that you support, I guess that months ago you would include Brazil´s Roussef. I do not demonize her, as most of my countrymen do now, but I can assure you that a large part of their supporters were scum of the worst kind. There were good people supporting her? Sure there was. Her lawyer in the impeachment process is one the cleverest minds here, and plays very fair. Most of my best friends support her. But her group (in fact, Lula´s group, her predecessor) fall prey to the thirsty of power. Even taking out the bias of the media (which is huge here, I suggest anyone to watch a BBC documentary called "Beyond Citizen Kane"), they did a lot of awful things. I do not know about the rest of the world, but here, unfortunately, we do not have anyone good enough even to pretend that they´re "White Knights".

 

[teddytennisfan]

to mrzz.

while it is correct to say that countries have THEIR internal problems and faults -- i am not required to let pass the attempts by some of you to try to wash the capitalists of THEIR plundering of russia.

and THAT is what this thread is about. NOT about ''who was to blame for ussr" collapse..which britbox, NOT I , introduced as a response to my other comments.

people need to be clear about which aspect of subjects and topics they are addressing...are we addressing a noun or a pronoun or an adjective or the verb or the preposition. ? there is far too much LOOSE correlations going on here.

russians themselves know better what THEIR faults are -- and one CLEAR matter for them is:

"gorbachev shoul dNEVER HAVE ALLOWED the ussr to collapse and allow the REWRITING of the russian laws BY OUTSIDERS"

because THAT is what LED to the REAL collapse of the economy -- the ''OPENING" UP of russia and the soviet sphere TO WESTERN ''educators"

such as JEFFERY SACHS -- and so many more ''financial package" ''Geniuses" of the VERY KIND that destroyed GREECE, and dozens of countries around the world with THEIR plundering .

AND THANKFULLY enough -- putin and some last remaining SANITY in yeltsin's mind made him appoint putin as prime minister to later ascend to election as president and THEN proceed to put down the HAMMER as it should have been -- to KICK OUT the western PLUNDERERS - ALONG with their collaborating TRAITOR russians like khodorkovsky, berezovski, etc...with the billions of STOLEN RUSSIAN ASSETS GRATEFULLY accetped by LONDON money laundering banks!

 

[teddytennisfan]

anyway -- if one were to move on with this discussion -- and the rest of you can go ahead and munch on your notions -- like i really care if you WISH to learn or not with all the time i WASTE on any of you with information you ought to be intelligent enough to understand about --


WHAT DOES it really matter?

RIGHT NOW -- IT IS RUSSIA that has LITTLE external debt - it is the USA that is at least 20 trillion dollars and counting in just hard cash DEBT..NOT counting the DERIVATIVE obligations -- promises of 'returns" on ''debt assets" swaps and more such FAKERY --

by most accounts rising to at least 400 TRILLION WORTH of undeliverable obligations.

it is RUSSIA that is poised to become the world's SUPERPOWER in NATURAL, ORGANIC, SUSTAINABLE HEALTHY agriculture and food....already IS in a mere TWO years of adjustment to sanctions by the west and domestic production and consumption improvements and support to farmers -- the world's biggest producer of wheat and barley -- BIGGER than canada and USA put together.

it is RUSSIA that holds the world's 1./4 of fresh water...
it is russia that has the RICHEST single collection of black earth rich agricultural land --
it is russia that CAN'T be conquered by u know who...and
it is RUSSI that emerging countries SICK AND TIRED of western plundering are CLINGING TO for dear life...and russia HASN'T forced herelf ONTO them --

unlike certain u know who's who print their FAKE LYING NEWS on BBC, WASHINGTON POST ..etc. who report a russian under every bed.......lol


and we can go on and on and on..............

 

[teddytennisfan]

as for brazil -- based on my PAST knowledge of rousseff -- naturally i would support her -- and if she turns out to be just truly as blame-worthy for trashing the economy that is YOUR business in brazil , not mine.

what you do with yourselves is your own affair and thi sincludes if you allow the ''northerners" whose INTENT remains from centuries ago of MCKINLEY and company thinking of south america as "OUR BACKYARD".

go right ahead -- have your TEMER -- and whatever you like. have some more NEOLIBERALISM if you want or allow YOUR leaders to bring you.

why should china or russia REALLY have to care about that if YOU -- the people can not discipline your own leaders by insisting in ONE WAY OR ANOTHER what is expected of THEM?

that is differen for example in RUSSIA.

PUTIN ENJOYS PHENOMENAL SUPPORT BECAUSE in the majority of cases that is allowed to him UNDER their ''rules" - both law and traditions -- HE DELIVERS. even if that is not perfect - BUT AT THE VERY LEAST --

TAKING BACK RUSSIA from the WESTERN plunderers so that their country can WRITE its OWN destiny FREE OF WESTERN COERCION - unlike many other countries.

and THAT is the point here.

i've been to st petersburg for two weeks this summer -- and spoken to plenty of russians of diffeent generations. students incollege, workers at the hotel, ordinary shopkeepers, highly accomplished professionals, physicists even including high level lecturer in one of their Space technology institutes - agriculture students, etc...

and INVARIABLY -- they are PROUD -- for ''the firs ttime since 1990"...

and UNDERSTAND perfectly what pains they must endure - sanctions, etc...vilification by the west -- even the threat of being attacked by NATO encircling them -- with frudulent reasoining (as usual ) --

BUT WILL NOT STAND FOR WESTERN COERCION and meddling in their affairs and HOW they order themselves.

NOW -- THAT is something WORTHY of not just admiration -- but actual WONDER at what INNER strength these russians truly have.

and YET towards foreigners and even the americans and others like tham from countries that have shown nothing BUT malice and vindictiveness - after all that plundering with NO sense of shame whatsoever --

the russians i have met NOT FOR A MOMENT ever showed malice or anger towards westerners -- not even towards POLAND one of the most VICIOUS bitterrussophobic countries ...crying about ''the russian threat" all the time when NOTHING of the sort is happening...

the russians have , instead -- PITY FOR THE WEST .

THAT'S all they have..PITY....

 

[teddytennisfan]

THIS is , for me anyway -- and from what I experienced more directly in russia briefly -- was confirmed to me by how russians behave while doing the same things we all must do in life - work and live...

and it is PUTIN'S words:

"the question by some of our friends from the west in interviews of me -- WHAT is the russian?

"to me -- we are russians because we hold above all other things the sense of loyalty to our unity as a people across our different nationalities -- all 160 nationalities and cultures --our four major religions of orthodoxy, islam , buddhism and judaism and our indigenous beliefs"..

"we are sometimes asked : WHAT is the russian? the russia is one who believes that in life -- there is more to it than just material success...yes -- we like to have wealth, success, recognition, status, toys, comforts, good food, good living..all things that people would also like..

''but we adhere to one core belief that we try to remind each other about in our ways and independence -- and that is: that the russian deeply believes that to live life MEANS to live a life WITH CONSCIENCE ".

''therefore when addressing the question of the economy -- asked 'what is the economy/ the market?"

"i say -- the economy is what people create...the market is part of the economy.. IT Is not SOME ABSTRACT concept or theory such as neoliberalists want or theorists say....it is what people make it...
but BOTH must serve PEOPLE -- NOT the other way around. ".

''I ALSO believe that we -- russians -- BEING A COLLECTIVIST society in our very being -- are different from that of the west in this sense...in that we place our society and its unity above our individual selves ...

"we can therefore understand why we can NOT become a society in which PEOPLE are traded like commodities in order to make the pockets of a few private people and banks happy -- if we go down that path - we are finished as a society".