The Rankings Thread (ATP)

rafanoy1992

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Number 1 ranking scenarios after Roland Garros:

If Djokovic does not reach Geneva F AND he does not reach RG Final, then Sinner only needs to reach the 2R of RG to become no.1

If Djokovic either reaches Geneva F OR wins Geneva ,BUT he does not reach RG Final, then Sinner needs to reach the 4R of RG.

if Djokovic does reach RG F regardless of what his result at Geneva, then Sinner needs to reach SF of RG to overtake Djokovic.

Basically, if Djokovic does NOT reach RG F, then Sinner will be more than likely be the new no.1 after RG.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Number 1 ranking scenarios after Roland Garros:

If Djokovic does not reach Geneva F AND he does not reach RG Final, then Sinner only needs to reach the 2R of RG to become no.1

If Djokovic either reaches Geneva F OR wins Geneva ,BUT he does not reach RG Final, then Sinner needs to reach the 4R of RG.

if Djokovic does reach RG F regardless of what his result at Geneva, then Sinner needs to reach SF of RG to overtake Djokovic.

Basically, if Djokovic does NOT reach RG F, then Sinner will be more than likely be the new no.1 after RG.
Hopefully Sinner can get past round 2 this year, he only made the 2nd rd in 2023 and lost
 

MargaretMcAleer

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New Career Highs ATP Top 100 Monday 27th May,

24.Tabilo
34.Machac
40.Darderi
53. Cobolli
56.Kotov
60 Michelson
66. Mpetchi Perricard
 

MargaretMcAleer

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ATP Top 12 with Roland Garros points removed, as of May 27th,
1. Sinner 8725 points
2. Djokovic 7960
3. Alcaraz 6580
4. Medvedev 6285
5. Zverev 5585
6. Rublev 4610
7. Hurkacz 3795
8. De Minaur 3445
9. Dimitrov 3375
10. Tsitsipas 3340
11. Ruud 3225
12. Fritz 2890
 

Fiero425

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Number 1 ranking scenarios after Roland Garros:

If Djokovic does not reach Geneva F AND he does not reach RG Final, then Sinner only needs to reach the 2R of RG to become no.1

If Djokovic either reaches Geneva F OR wins Geneva ,BUT he does not reach RG Final, then Sinner needs to reach the 4R of RG.

if Djokovic does reach RG F regardless of what his result at Geneva, then Sinner needs to reach SF of RG to overtake Djokovic.

Basically, if Djokovic does NOT reach RG F, then Sinner will be more than likely be the new no.1 after RG.

It matters NOT! As I've been saying, Djokovic is only extending records he owns already! He's well over 100 weeks compared to his closest rival, Federer! Nadal not in the top 5 all time! He very well could walk away after this event, but I think he has a lit'l left in the tank! He won 3 majors last season! At 37+ yo. he's not gonna match that again! I think he'd be quite satisfied w/ finishing w/ 1 more French Open to make 4 Career Grand Slams! Such a joke when "coined" for Agassi, back in the 90's trying to elevate his record! Chk'n the latest LIVE rankings, Sinner's taken over! He'd have to really crash & burn not to officially take over the #1 ranking by next week! How long can he hold it though b/c Novak's still "right there" w/ Carlos coming up fast! I still wonder & worry about their physical health! Fedalovic have had unprecedented longevity even though Nadal came & went multiple times, they each stayed near the top for 20+ yrs.! Novak outlasted Fed to add an 8th YE #1 ranking! What are fans of other players gonna do w/ these records which are so out of sight? :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface: :face-with-hand-over-mouth:
 
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Fiero425

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Entertaining as always, Fiero. Out of (morbid) curiosity, who would you rank ahead of Rafa? And are you talking Open Era only?
So many players really! I've had so little respect for Nadal due to his limited game of mainly oulasting opponents over actually beating them! He's allowed too many players outside the top 50 to extend him to the limit! I don't give him as much credit playing the game due to technical advancements that he's taken advantage of! The rackets are very stiff & durable, but it doesn't stop there! From what I understand, Nadal's using strings w/ literal teeth on them to help impart a lot of his topspin! Borg gets all due credit & applause due to his winning w/ literally a stick & kite string in comparison! His game was limited as well, but he did as much as he could to reach his heights w/ the technology that was available which wasn't a significant advantage! When it comes to players of the past, I believe most would destroy Nadal if all things being equal w/ age, rackets, etc.; going back to Tilden & Kramer! Gonzales & Sampras would embarrass Nadal; esp. on choppy grass! Put Rafa on grass that isn't so manicured & slow, he'd go out in the 1st couple rounds like he did 10 years ago! So much has been done to facilitate his so called greatness including Masters' events going BO3! We saw what happened when BO5 and run ragged, he always WD from the next event! I could go on, but it all sounds nonsensical as it's all "PIE IN THE SKY" dreaming! It's all over with Novak on top, Federer a distant 2nd, and Nadal not even in the top 10 all time IMO! :face-with-head-bandage: :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface: :face-with-hand-over-mouth:
 
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Moxie

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Entertaining as always, Fiero. Out of (morbid) curiosity, who would you rank ahead of Rafa? And are you talking Open Era only?
You just HAD to tee that one up for him, didn't ya? Where did you think that was going to go? Another excuse to slag Nadal, and then, basically, all over the place. :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 

El Dude

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So many players really! I've had so little respect for Nadal due to his limited game of mainly oulasting opponents over actually beating them! He's allowed too many players outside the top 50 to extend him to the limit! I don't give him as much credit playing the game due to technical advancements that he's taken advantage of! The rackets are very stiff & durable, but it doesn't stop there! From what I understand, Nadal's using strings w/ literal teeth on them to help impart a lot of his topspin! Borg gets all due credit & applause due to his winning w/ literally a stick & kite string in comparison! His game was limited as well, but he did as much as he could to reach his heights w/ the technology that was available which wasn't a significant advantage! When it comes to players of the past, I believe most would destroy Nadal if all things being equal w/ age, rackets, etc.; going back to Tilden & Kramer! Gonzales & Sampras would embarrass Nadal; esp. on choppy grass! Put Rafa on grass that isn't so manicured & slow, he'd go out in the 1st couple rounds like he did 10 years ago! So much has been done to facilitate his so called greatness including Masters' events going BO3! We saw what happened when BO5 and run ragged, he always WD from the next event! I could go on, but it all sounds nonsensical as it's all "PIE IN THE SKY" dreaming! It's all over with Novak on top, Federer a distant 2nd, and Nadal not even in the top 10 all time IMO! :face-with-head-bandage: :astonished-face: :fearful-face: :yawningface: :face-with-hand-over-mouth:
You get an A for entertainment, a D for logic. I say this with love and respect for a lot of what you usually say, but this is just kind of silly.

The main fallacy is that you're penalizing Rafa for playing with "technical advancement" while ignoring the fact that every single player he faced also had the same benefit. If Rafa gets and edge with the rackets he uses, that's because he learned how to optimize the tools at hand. The corollary is that Borg dominated with "stick and kite strings" against players who also used the same. How can you penalize Rafa, while lauding Borg - both of whom played against opponents with the same advantages and disadvantages, respectively/

And I just don't think we can imagine players playing in widely different eras. I think it is disrespectful to, say, Ken Rosewall or Rod Laver to imagine them getting crushed today because of their size. Every player is a product of their environment, and I think greatness should only ever be judged relative to the context in which they played in.

The one thing I agree with is that Sampras, at least, would have dominated Rafa on grass, whether in the 90s or 2000s. He was about as good as Roger on grass, but with a stronger clutch mentality imo, and would have been less bothered than Roger was by Rafa's game.

Rankings will be forever argued, but I think the general consensus is moving towards Novak or Laver as #1, with Roger and Rafa rounding at the top 4. You could throw Tilden in for being so dominant during his time, but there's no way Rafa isn't in the top 5, or if we don't want to rank individually but rather in tiers, in the very top tier of "GOAT level" players.

A more interesting and debatable discussion would be how to rank the next group. Slam-centric conventional wisdom would have Sampras next (looking at only Open Era players), but taking a broader, less Slam-centric view, there's a good argument to put him in the same group, if not behind, Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, and even Connors. I personally think that peak Borg and McEnroe were as good as the Big Three, but behind them overall due to the latter trio's remarkable longevity (and moreso, sustained excellence while playing for so long).
 
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Fiero425

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You get an A for entertainment, a D for logic. I say this with love and respect for a lot of what you usually say, but this is just kind of silly.

The main fallacy is that you're penalizing Rafa for playing with "technical advancement" while ignoring the fact that every single player he faced also had the same benefit. If Rafa gets and edge with the rackets he uses, that's because he learned how to optimize the tools at hand. The corollary is that Borg dominated with "stick and kite strings" against players who also used the same. How can you penalize Rafa, while lauding Borg - both of whom played against opponents with the same advantages and disadvantages, respectively/

And I just don't think we can imagine players playing in widely different eras. I think it is disrespectful to, say, Ken Rosewall or Rod Laver to imagine them getting crushed today because of their size. Every player is a product of their environment, and I think greatness should only ever be judged relative to the context in which they played in.

The one thing I agree with is that Sampras, at least, would have dominated Rafa on grass, whether in the 90s or 2000s. He was about as good as Roger on grass, but with a stronger clutch mentality imo, and would have been less bothered than Roger was by Rafa's game.

Rankings will be forever argued, but I think the general consensus is moving towards Novak or Laver as #1, with Roger and Rafa rounding at the top 4. You could throw Tilden in for being so dominant during his time, but there's no way Rafa isn't in the top 5, or if we don't want to rank individually but rather in tiers, in the very top tier of "GOAT level" players.

A more interesting and debatable discussion would be how to rank the next group. Slam-centric conventional wisdom would have Sampras next (looking at only Open Era players), but taking a broader, less Slam-centric view, there's a good argument to put him in the same group, if not behind, Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, and even Connors. I personally think that peak Borg and McEnroe were as good as the Big Three, but behind them overall due to the latter trio's remarkable longevity (and moreso, sustained excellence while playing for so long).

OCO! All things were not equal when Borg played! He literally played w/ a WOOD racket & strings so tight, Bud Collins called the racket face "a pane of glass!" From 1975 on metals and fiberglass rackets w/ so much "touch & feel" were being produced! "The Comp I & II" by Head, used by Arthur Ashe was quite common in the amateur ranks where I played! Graphite was introduced later, while Connors stuck w/ his Wilson T-2000 thru most of the 80's B4 upgrading to something oversized! McEnroe gets all kinds of kudos from me (never cared for) using that Dunlop woodie & defeating Borg thoroughly by 1981! ;-)

Your logic & well thought out reply has brought me back from "my rave!" I go off on Nadal so disrespectfully don't I? Can't be helped! :face-with-hand-over-mouth::fearful-face::yawningface:
 

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OCO! All things were not equal when Borg played! He literally played w/ a WOOD racket & strings so tight, Bud Collins called the racket face "a pane of glass!" From 1975 on metals and fiberglass rackets w/ so much "touch & feel" were being produced! "The Comp I & II" by Head, used by Arthur Ashe was quite common in the amateur ranks where I played! Graphite was introduced later, while Connors stuck w/ his Wilson T-2000 thru most of the 80's B4 upgrading to something oversized! McEnroe gets all kinds of kudos from me (never cared for) using that Dunlop woodie & defeating Borg thoroughly by 1981! ;-)

Your logic & well thought out reply has brought me back from "my rave!" I go off on Nadal so disrespectfully don't I? Can't be helped! :face-with-hand-over-mouth::fearful-face::yawningface:
You misunderstand. I am not saying all things were equal between when Borg and Nadal played, but that all things were equal for Borg and the players he faced, just as all things were equal for Rafa and the players he faced.

In other words, Borg's opponents played with the same equipment that he did, so any deficit he had, so too did his opponents. The same with Rafa.

You are talking like Borg played with wood vs. guys playing with graphite. Borg had no deficit, no penalty that his peers didn't also have. It was the context of the game at the time.

Now what you're saying about the difference in equipment (not to mention other factors of the tour differences between the 70s and 2000s) has some bearing on comparing stats across eras. That's why we can't say that Borg "only" ever winning two Slams in a year is automatically lesser than the Big Three's three Slam years...Borg only played the AO once, and before (1974) he reached his very best level (1978-80). This is one of the many reasons why it is difficult to compare players and seasons across wide eras.

But we can say, "How dominant was Borg relative to his peers, and how does that compare to Rafa relative to his peers?" Not an easy question to answer, but the key is comparing them to their peers, not to each other.
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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New ATP Top Ten Monday 10th June ( after RG)

1. Sinner 9525 (+1)
2. Alcaraz 8580 (+1)
3. Djokovic 8360 (-2)
4. Zverev 7885
5. Medvedev 6485
6. Rublev 4710
7. Ruud 4025
8. Hurkacz 3995
9. De Minaur 3845 (+2)
10. Dimitrov 3775
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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New Career Highs ATP Top 100, Monday 10th June,

1. Sinner
29 Navone
33.Machac
34. Arnaldi
50 Cobolli
51 Kotov
77 Nagal
81 Bergs
83. Kovacevic
 
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Jannik Sinner 22, and Carlos Alcaraz 21, are the first pair of 22 and under players to hold the top 2 spots in the PIF ATP rankings since Roger Federer and Andy Roddick in Augist 2004
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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New ATP Top Ten Monday 17th June,

1. Sinner
2. Alcaraz
3. Djokovic
4. Zverev
5. Medvedev
6. Rublev
7. De Minaur (+2)
8. Ruud (-1)
9. Hurkacz (-1)
10. Dimitrov
 

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New Career Highs, ATP Top 100, Monday 17th June,

7. De Minaur
31. Draper
34. Darderi
49. Cobolli
50. Kotov
71. Nagal
77. Bergs
 
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Novak Djokovic back to No 2 on Monday as Alcaraz drops 450 points from the 2023 Queens title on Monday
If Djokovic ( new No 2) decides to play Wimbledon , he will be the 2nd seed, with Jannik Sinner the top seed
 

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New ATP Top Ten, Monday 25th June,

1. Sinner
2. Djokovic (+1)
3. Alcaraz (-1)
4. Zverev
5. Medvedev
6. Rublev
7. Hurkacz (+2) a career high for Hurkacz
8. Ruud
9. De Minaur (-2)
10. Dimitrov

BTW 9890 points in the ATP ranking, Jannik Sinner is the first man born after 2000 able to reach such high tally.
 
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